I keep saying this, but late term abortions are one of the biggest reasons that 1 in 20 childbirths no longer end up with death of the mother.
[RD] Abortion, once again
- Thread starter Angst
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Yeah, I'm not sure what "Americans would support" is a sensible base for medical opinion here.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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And did they write out the exceptions for fatal pregnancies?
Does that justify killing different lives in different pregnancies?
"Social anxiety" passes muster for Americans in Illinois, so it's not like political stances have anything to do with "sensible medical opinion" or whatever the rationalization for the death hardons, is.
Does that justify killing different lives in different pregnancies?
"Social anxiety" passes muster for Americans in Illinois, so it's not like political stances have anything to do with "sensible medical opinion" or whatever the rationalization for the death hardons, is.
Lexicus
Deity
Death hardons, is it? Why do you have a hardon for torturing and murdering women for the crime of having a medically-complicated pregnancy?
EgonSpengler
Deity
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Right, if a sensible basis for opinions was our standard, the electorate would listen to what the medical professionals say, in the case of abortions. And it's not like Americans are choosing to educate ourselves on all of these 'hot button' topics. That would be impossible. People are almost always choosing to listen to someone's views and opinions, the question is whose.
Does anything justify anything? It's all about the trade-offs. Demonstrate one is worse than the other, and people will at least understand. Continually raise a hypothetical with no data behind it, and people will continue to ignore you.
Separation of Church and state, and all that.
Klaus Hergersheimer
Emperor
Abortion seems like a very complicated procedure that having any sort of amendment on it isn't worthwhile. Too many mitigating circumstances to consider putting into one or two concise sentences. When is it allowed? When it is not? etc.
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The Constitutional provision sets the minimum standard for the right. It does not restrict expanding the right to beyond the Constitutional baseline or legislating details consistent with the Constitution.
Lexicus
Deity
Yeah, I'm sure you used the phrase "death hardons" because you're interested in an honest assessment of other people's views. Give me a break.
Still people die (from June):
Some 64% of OBGYNs say the Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health ruling worsened pregnancy-related mortality, while 68% say it’s now harder to manage pregnancy emergencies, according to the KFF poll.
The survey also found that 61% of OBGYNs (19% of which practice in states with abortion bans) say they’re concerned about their own legal risk when making decisions about patient care and the necessity of abortion.
Some 40% (half of which practice in states with abortion bans) say they’ve felt constraints on their ability to provide care for miscarriages and other pregnancy-related medical emergencies.
Meanwhile, 55% say the decision has worsened the ability to attract new OBGYNs to the field.
The report surveyed 569 OBGYNs from March 17 to May 18, all of whom spend 60% or more of their working hours in direct patient care and provide sexual and reproductive health care to at least 10% of patients.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
How would you word such an amendment if you could write one?
If would probably lift language from one of the landmark Supreme Court cases affirming the right - maybe the broadest of the lot which was probably Roe v. Wade.
And nobody who is able to access a medical or simple day surgery abortion is sitting around waiting until the process becomes a complex specialist surgery just for the hell of it.
Except in places where anti-abortion regulations, financial barriers and availability issues prevent timely abortion access, essentially all "late term" terminations are cases where people who wanted their babies, but then something went badly medically wrong. That is, they're already sad situations that Catholic/evangelical/American anti-abortion politicians and others figures want to make more tragic.
stfoskey12
Emperor of Foskania
Couldn't there be a compromise where late term abortions are restricted with an exception if the life or health of the mother is at risk or the fetus is non-viable?
You don't need that to be a law, it's just the business of individuals involved. Decision making gets a little more involved as you move from medical abortion to simple surgeries then complex ones, but that's all just medical decisionmaking stuff. Making such laws implies there's a problem which doesn't actually exist, and creates barriers to access for those who need it.
Pretending there's a problem by banging on and on about "late term abortions" is also a big part of United States Republican propaganda, it's rhetoric designed to wedge people against this entirely imaginary spectre of people (read: wanton jezebels!) just killing nearly-formed babbies willy-nilly. Don't accept their framing, unfortunately that bias is so widespread people in the US often don't even realise the extent they've been marinating in it, but really this whole discourse about gestation limits needing to be tightly legislated and rigidly regulated is a furphy.
You actually just don't need such laws, it's not nearly the main issue. Where I live there are no gestation limit type laws, abortion is fully legal at any point, but there's still access issues because the nearest specialist who can do the complex late term surgeries is in Sydney (my understanding is it's a demand issue, there's only a handful of such delayed abortion cases each year here), so people have to travel 3 hours to a different clinic run by the same organisation as performs simple procedures here. The big focus needs to be resourcing and access, not punitive laws.
Pretending there's a problem by banging on and on about "late term abortions" is also a big part of United States Republican propaganda, it's rhetoric designed to wedge people against this entirely imaginary spectre of people (read: wanton jezebels!) just killing nearly-formed babbies willy-nilly. Don't accept their framing, unfortunately that bias is so widespread people in the US often don't even realise the extent they've been marinating in it, but really this whole discourse about gestation limits needing to be tightly legislated and rigidly regulated is a furphy.
You actually just don't need such laws, it's not nearly the main issue. Where I live there are no gestation limit type laws, abortion is fully legal at any point, but there's still access issues because the nearest specialist who can do the complex late term surgeries is in Sydney (my understanding is it's a demand issue, there's only a handful of such delayed abortion cases each year here), so people have to travel 3 hours to a different clinic run by the same organisation as performs simple procedures here. The big focus needs to be resourcing and access, not punitive laws.
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