ALC Game #22 Take 2: Arabs/Saladin

[Jet]

like fighting French crossbows with a sword army.

 

[Quotey]

I whipped up a fixed save for you if you don't have the time to play the round again- I'd rather have rd. 5 than 4 part 2.

 

[DanF5771]

I figure it is all Validator's fault whos blue dotmap city yumyum forced Sis to go visit the other espionage screen

 

[Jaaboo]

I dub this Barbgate.

 

[DrJambo]

I dub this Barbgate.

 

[Fetch]

but seriously, it kinda make me feel good that Sis (who's waaaay better at Civ than I'll ever be) will use the ol' Ctrl + W to take care of business too. I use it when I'm frustrated. I'll admit it.

I rarely go into Worldbuilder, but sometimes, yeah. Usually it's to fix a "mouseographical error"--such as giving a Chariot the Combat II rather than the Medic I promotion so he can become a MASH unit later on.

Erm, yeah. Right. Errors. I go in there to fix errors too... Like the error about not having certain resources, or enough nukes. Hey, quit judging me. It's just a game. games are supposed to be fun. Nuking someone in 300 AD is hilarious.

 

[Cornhog]

Oh, give Sisiutil a break. Barbgate isn't that big of a deal. So he had a moment of weakness. He was, after all, under sniper fire the entire time he was playing.

Also, on a dumb note, it never occurred to me to open the WB to fix a "mouseographical issue." I always reloaded old autosaves, and it was a pain replaying everything. I'm a dunce

 

[huerfanista]

Thinking about it, the wall trick does seem exploity (placing bets on Sisiutil not doing it in the replay) but I'm just gonna cite it as a Protective trait use to feel better about cheating in my games. Take that, morality.

If you think that the walls trick is exploity, try this sometime:

1. Don't research horseback riding all game (makes chariots available in modern era).
2. Build a chariot in your city that has:
HE (100% military prod bonus),
IW (100% bonus w/iron & coal),
powered factory (50% bonus),
forge (25% bonus),
military academy (50% bonus for military build),
while running:
state property (10% bonus)
police state (25% for military)

This gives you a 460% production bonus in a city that probably has around 100 base prod (I've seen more more). This will easily generate well over 400 per chariot build with no whipping or chopping.

Just delete the chariot when it's done.

 

[huerfanista]

but what split the river? any message that a GP named "Moses" had been born yet?

It's easy to split a river in WB when deleting stuff, and I've never been able to figure out how to use the river tool in WB - it just creates all kinds of wierd broken rivers whenever I've tried to use it.

 

[r_rolo1]

If you think that the walls trick is exploity, try this sometime:

1. Don't research horseback riding all game (makes chariots available in modern era).
2. Build a chariot in your city that has:
HE (100% military prod bonus),
IW (100% bonus w/iron & coal),
powered factory (50% bonus),
forge (25% bonus),
military academy (50% bonus for military build),
while running:
state property (10% bonus)
police state (25% for military)

This gives you a 460% production bonus in a city that probably has around 100 base prod (I've seen more more). This will easily generate well over 400 per chariot build with no whipping or chopping.

Just delete the chariot when it's done.

Why delete the chariot? Cheap MP police while the real units are "working" ( aka ) elsewhere

 

[Sisiutil]

Round 4 Redux: 1550 BC to 750 BC (40 turns)

So to compensate for my "moment of weakness" (described above) which I then tried to fix but made worse, I replayed the round. I did most things the same, but inevitably, I branched off a bit. Most of the results are the same, but in some ways I think I ended the round in a better spot in terms of sponsoring discussion.

As I said, I started off much the same way, switching out of Slavery...

Then switching back into it to whip a Granary to completion in the capital and put the overflow into the Pyramids...

Once again, my Woodsman II Warrior won a battle with a barbarian Archer and earned Woodsman III...

As before, I'm a total wimp...

But then things started to change slightly. I got a random event that made Roosevelt dislike me even more than he already does. In fact, I'm now his "worst enemy". Boy, I sure know how to make friends and influence people, don't I?

And yes, you may have noticed another barb city appearing, this one in a different spot than last time, and I managed to resist the urge to remove it this time, as much as I hate where it's located. Yay me.

Darn, built right on top of a flood plain. We had mapped out a city 1N of there, which would still have fresh water from the oasis but leave that flood plain intact, as well as improving an otherwise useless desert tile by building a city on top of it. So this is my punishment for my earlier sin. I think I'll have to take the city and keep it--it's not a bad location--just so I don't end up with a useless riverside desert tile. For now, I left it alone; I don't have the military (see above) to do anything about it.

With this round starting to branch off a bit differently from last one, I started doing a few things differently. In my previous attempt I'd left my Scout fog-busting the area where that barb city appeared. (I've had barb cities appear on top of flood plains before.) With the barb city appearing there this time, that seemed pointless, so once I had Writing and OB agreements with Zara and Sury (Roosevelt refused), I sent him exploring. Like I said, I think this will give us more information for discussion. And Zara was turning into a bit of a wonder-hog himself:

I repeated the wall chop/whip overflow trick, again just trying to repeat the last round as closely as possible.

And I founded Baghdad in the same spot.

Another thing I did differently was that I felt the need to build up a little military, so since Medina had 4 citizens with three working unimproved tiles, I whipped some Chariots there.

I probably should have built/whipped a granary first. Well, I don't always play optimally, everyone here can tell you that!

I wasn't repeating my exact Worker moves from the previous round (come on), so somewhere along the way I slipped in another chop or two. That's why this round went one extra turn, to see the Pyramids through to completion.

I switched civics right away, adopting Representation and also abandoning Slavery for awhile, since I don't anticipate whipping anything for a few turns.

I should get a Great Spy from the Great Wall in just over a dozen turns, but the GE points from the Pyramids may skewer that. In any case, I still think researching Alphabet next makes sense (as in the previous attempt, I researched through Writing, Iron Working, Hunting, and Archery).

Here is a look at Arabia's cities:

I was thinking of prioritizing Workers, then military, then REX in the next round. (I started building a Barracks in the capital because it will grow 1 pop on the next turn.) Does that make sense, or should I have other priorities? I'm a little nervous because this time through, Sury did not declare war on Roosevelt, so the American might be coming my way if I don't beef up my military soon.

The map, north first, then south.

So because I did more exploring with the Scout this time, we know more about Ethiopian and Khmer territory. Another change: the SE coastal barb city has not appeared to block Zara there. I think rushing a south coast city to claim the last available iron tile on the continent is going to be a priority.

So once again my apologies for messing up the first attempt at this round in my moment of fatigue and frustration. Sometimes the reason the ALCs take so long is I know I'm too tired to play the game properly; last night I obviously didn't realize it was one of those times. This time, as I said, I think we have several more interesting discussion points: research, builds, knowledge of the neighbours, how to get the SE up and running, and a barb city we have to decide what to do with.

Overall, this is shaping up to be a fun game!

 

[madscientist]

I understand this completely as I have done this in previous RPC games, and admitted it like you just did. Bravo!!!

I think the point is to have fun and it is a game, so if the last segment was poorly played because of fatigue which we all suffer from (CIV IS a complicated game), I see no problem replaying it. Also, locking the assets is really not needed.

Best of luck!!! I tried this game twice myself and quit out of frustration due to the epic speed (I am too used to marathon now).

 

[Smakemupagus]

Darn, [Gaul] built right on top of a flood plain. We had mapped out a city 1N of there

Hmm, I actually like the site of Gaul (or 1S) better than the site 1N. More FP available to work with that town, and levee & hydroplant down the road. As is i definately think you're right to plan on capture without razing.

 

[kazapp]

And now Barbgate is gone! If only, say, Clinton could "replay" Lewinskygate. Oh wait, ...

 

[d.a.oconnell]

Not to sound like a newb How did you do that whip gold trick? Did you have walls until 1 turn, and then along with the chops and the whip, switch the build to gold?

 

[Sisiutil]

I understand this completely as I have done this in previous RPC games, and admitted it like you just did. Bravo!!!

I think the point is to have fun and it is a game, so if the last segment was poorly played because of fatigue which we all suffer from (CIV IS a complicated game), I see no problem replaying it. Also, locking the assets is really not needed.

Best of luck!!! I tried this game twice myself and quit out of frustration due to the epic speed (I am too used to marathon now).

Thanks for the understanding! I'm getting used to marathon as well, so coming back to epic for the ALCs is starting to feel weird. I may have to start a "what speed?" discussion in the bullpen.

Smakemupagus--I agree, I think this is one of those barb cities that saves you a Settler. Still, the RNG threw a few challenges my way this time through--Roosevelt is not tied up fighting Sury, and likes me even less, so that's the big one. Now that I have my wonders, I think it's time to build up the military.

 

[Fetch]

And now Barbgate is gone! If only, say, Clinton could "replay" Lewinskygate. Oh wait, ...

@ Sis- you should run for office. Politicians don't know when to say "I screwed up". Bravo. Anyway, ribbing you has been fun. You'd still kick my butt in Civ-- unless I get that 300 AD nuke. One more thing, if you were referring to Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends and Influence People where he had great accolades for President Roosevelt and his way with people, well, he was talking about Teddy Roosevelt, not Franklin Delano Roosevelt (your civ leader). Since you're Canadian, I'll forgive your mistake of US history. You still know more than most Americans.

Edit: Re: win friends: n/m.

 

[madscientist]

Actually, I think Sis is being punished by the gods because he refused to found an early religion with one of the games biggest Zealots. This is only the beginning of the god's displeasures, further misfortunes are destined to happen until Sis founds a religion!!!!

 

[slobberinbear]

While I agree that you need the southern iron (it's probably now or never), I still think you need to settle the SE gold/corn/crabs site next (razing the barb city) and close borders with Zara. Make him buy galleys to get around you. And get those Madrassas up in the border cities!

 

[Nares]

Not to sound like a newb How did you do that whip gold trick? Did you have walls until 1 turn, and then along with the chops and the whip, switch the build to gold?

Production until one turn left to complete, then whip. Chops are optional.

Without any modifier, you should get some gold. With stone and protective, you'll get a bunch of gold.

@Sis
City placement, barbgate and wonderspam aside (you were fine on Pyramids, btw), why are you chopping a non-riverside grassland forest near Mecca, when there are two riverside grassland forests available to be chopped? EDIT: This was in the "alternate reality" save.

I'm just curious, because while keeping forests in your BFC until the modern era may not always be necessary or advisable, if there were some sort of checklist for which forests not to chop, I'd think a non-riverside grassland would be right beside a non-riverside plains tile as the second most useless forest to chop.

Looking at the "real" save, I'm even more confused. The non-riverside grassland forest you were chopping in the "alternate" save is gone (makes sense), but one of the two riverside grassland forests are gone. Obviously, a worker made the trip down to the river to chop it. Why not chop both, and leave the one on the tile you're not going to improve for centuries alone?

Your worker is currently building a mine on the non-riverside grassland hill. That's another forest that will be chopped. Why not chop this one for the Pyramids, and leave the non-riverside grassland forest untouched?