das
Regeneration In Process
Well, there's JosefStalinator's NES, and the aforementioned DisNES II, for instance. I'm pretty sure there were some others as well.
Alternate History Thread IV: The Sequel
- Thread starter Dachs
- Start date
I like the revival of the Romanoi any way I can get it, inasmuch as I've done it all too often in EU II.
But yeah, France probably would be able to use the Roman territory as a handy base against Naples, and maybe even el Gran Capitan might not be able to beat them then, especially if the French or Romans sprout someone competent. And in said coalition war it would indeed be pretty darned cool if the Habsburgs got 0wned a little bit more than they did in RL...perhaps a 16th century Westphalia in the creation of a bunch of more or less independent Kleinstaaterei? While Luther is unlikely to arise, perhaps some other kind of heresy might screw things up for the HRE at a convenient moment as well.Oh, and making maps for some of these ideas (viz. the German Alsace sans alte Fritz and the Communist Germany after WWI)? I could probably do the second one unless you really want to, das (already got a similar map...
).
das
Regeneration In Process
Actually, I'm working on the second map even as I type this. 
LittleBoots
The Bloody Banner
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,979
Strategos, forgive me if this is evident somewhere else, but does this Pope maintain his spiritual authority, such as it is? Or, maybe a better question is what exactly is his spiritual authority? Was this intentionally made hazy to trick the Greeks into believing filioque 
p)?
Also, as to heretics, given that the Church has become consiliar and the authority of the Pope has been reduced, would this not curb many reformist complaints? The hierarchy seems a little flatter when the Pope is brought down, but it still exists, so Presbyters and Episocopals have a compromise. Also, given that it is consiliar, wouldn't reformist ideas work their way into the church much more easily than OTL?
Finally, while it is only through Henry VIII that the earth was graced with the martyrdom of Thomas More, can he (Henry) be stillborn in TTL as a personal favour? (spake the Anglican, "Thomas More!") yeah, sorry about that
p)? Also, as to heretics, given that the Church has become consiliar and the authority of the Pope has been reduced, would this not curb many reformist complaints? The hierarchy seems a little flatter when the Pope is brought down, but it still exists, so Presbyters and Episocopals have a compromise. Also, given that it is consiliar, wouldn't reformist ideas work their way into the church much more easily than OTL?
Finally, while it is only through Henry VIII that the earth was graced with the martyrdom of Thomas More, can he (Henry) be stillborn in TTL as a personal favour?
(spake the Anglican, "Thomas More!") yeah, sorry about that
das
Regeneration In Process
On one hand, yes. On the other, that would also cause a reactionary backlash, and encourage the Church's unity to disintegrate along national lines. Any attempts to bring it closer together and generally reunify it - come they from the reformers or the reactionaries - will probably cause some additional tension, wherefrom will come the heresy.
LittleBoots
The Bloody Banner
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,979
das
Regeneration In Process
The Strategos
Thanatos
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,175
Strategos, forgive me if this is evident somewhere else, but does this Pope maintain his spiritual authority, such as it is? Or, maybe a better question is what exactly is his spiritual authority? Was this intentionally made hazy to trick the Greeks into believing filioque
This was intentionally made hazy because the council is busy trying to shove the pope down to their (the individual members) level while the pope is doing his best to beat the council down with a giant beating-stick. For now the battle is the council's, but the war remains unwon.
Well right now there isn't many heresies to worry about. Lollardism in England is virtually dead, the abortive rebellion by Sir John Oldcastle in 1413 pretty much destroying what little credibility it had in the gentry, though it still survives in the lower classes. The Hussite problem has been largly resolved, through peace with the more moderates and through the death of the more radical. For the future, you'll just have to keep reading to find out.
Finally, while it is only through Henry VIII that the earth was graced with the martyrdom of Thomas More, can he (Henry) be stillborn in TTL as a personal favour?
Well considering that the first Tudor king hasn't even been born yet, isn't it a bit early to worry about his descendant?
LittleBoots
The Bloody Banner
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 1,979
That last comment wasn't exactly serious, but I'll keep inanities like that to myself next time
In any case, I eagerly await the next installment.
In any case, I eagerly await the next installment.
das
Regeneration In Process
Am sceptical as to the end of the Hussites. The Taborites still made a lot of trouble - mostly for the Bohemian crown, it must be admitted - until well into the second half of the 15th century. That said, their range has been greatly diminished, so I suppose the threat has receded greatly for the Church as a whole.
das
Regeneration In Process
Hmm? Turan is united; it is simply yet to conquer many of the outer regions to which the pan-Turanian movement had laid claims to.
The Strategos
Thanatos
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,175
I guarantee the next one won't be coming out this fast.
Chapter 1
The holy synod of Florence, representing the universal church, legitimately assembled in the Holy Spirit, for the glory of almighty God, the exaltation of the catholic faith and the progress of the Christian religion, laying its foundation on the cornerstone Christ Jesus, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord, established this by its decree as follows:
Long has the Church sought to heal the wounds of schism, inflicted by the Devil. And now, with such a holy task accomplished, it would be shameful to ignore the troubles of our brothers. For who ignores the leg when it is in pain? But rather one seeks, by whatever means necessary to heal it. In such a manner, the oriental church, is now being trampled under foot of the infidels. Whereby how great a danger threatens the church of God and the whole of Christianity, we both know ourselves and do not believe it should be hid from your prudence.
We exhort therefore all of you in God, we ask and command, and, for the remission of sins enjoin: that those who are of God, and, above all, the greater men and the nobles do manfully gird themselves; and that you strive so to oppose the multitude of the infidels, who rejoice at the time in a victory gained over us, and so to defend the oriental church, and to snatch many thousands of your captive brothers from their hands, that the dignity of the Christian name may be increased in your time, and that your valor which is praised throughout the whole world, may remain intact and unshaken. May that good Matthias be an example to you, who, to preserve the laws of his fathers, did not in the least doubt to expose himself with his sons and relations to death, and to leave whatever he possessed in the world; and who at length, by the help of the divine aid, after many labors however, did, as well as his progeny, manfully triumph over his enemies.
We, moreover, providing with paternal solicitude for your tranquility and for the destitution of that same church, do grant and confirm by the authority conceded to us of God, to those who by the promptings of devotion do decide to undertake and to carry through so holy and so necessary a work and labor, that remission of sins and do decree that their wives and sons, their goods also and possessions shall remain under the protection of this council, and of the archbishops, bishops and other prelates of the church of God. By the authority granted to the Church of God, moreover, we forbid that, in the case of any thing, which they possessed in peace, when they took the cross, any suit be brought hereafter until most certain news has been obtained concerning their return or their death. Moreover since those who war for the Lord should by no means prepare themselves with precious garments, nor with provision for their personal appearance, nor with dogs or hawks , other things which portend licentiousness: we exhort your prudence in the Lord that those who have decided to undertake so holy a work shall not strive after these things, but shall show zeal and diligence with all their strength in the matter of arms, horses and other things with which they may fight the infidels. But those who are oppressed by debt and begin so holy a journey with a pure heart, shall not pay interest for the time past, and if they are bound by an oath or pledge in the matter of interest, we absolve. It is allowed to them also when their relations, being warned, or the lords to whose fee they belong, are either unwilling or unable to advance them the money, to freely pledge without any reclamation, their lands or other possessions to churches, or ecclesiastical persons, or to any other of the faithful. By the authority of almighty God and, which has been conceded to us by God, we grant such remission and absolution of sins, that he who shall devoutly begin so sacred a journey and shall accomplish it, or shall die during it, shall obtain absolution for all his sins which with a humble and contrite heart he shall confess, and shall receive the fruit of eternal retribution from the Remunerator of all.
-Declaration of Crusade from the Council of Florence, 5 January, in the Year of our Lord 1440
Even though the sensational news of the reunification of the church overshadowed many of the programs established by the Council of Basel, and later Council of Florence, it was not the only program established, nor arguably was it even the program that would have the most impact on the Church. The second most important program for many, after the reunification of the church, were the concrete steps taken in order to ensure the continual prosperity of the church councils.
To this end, it was decreed by general agreement that the council would reconvene in 1450 in Florence, which would become the future site of all such councils. In order to ensure that the counciliarism party wouldn’t lose ground until then, local councils were established. These local councils would cover a smaller geographical area and make decisions at a more local level. The ecumenical councils at Florence, then, would be reserved for matters which transcended local boundaries.
Another important step was the reorganization of the council. Previous to this, the council had been divided by concerns, so that there was a body that only dealt with liturgy, another which dealt with peace, another which investigated heresy. This arrangement, however, had proved itself unwieldy, almost to the point in destroying the council at several key points. To overcome this, local councils, as well as all future ecumenical councils would be divided by position, with two main branches of the council, the Council of Primates and the Council of Doctors. The Council of Primates, as indicated by its name, would be the more exclusive group, limited only to the upper levels of the church hierarchy. The Council of Doctors would be open to everyone else, members of the various church orders, teachers at universities, and lower levels of clergy.
Finally, there was a group of decrees contemptuously known by its enemies, which at this point was virtually limited to the pope, as the “Surrender to the Greeks.” As the contemptuous title indicated, this series of legislation was passed, mainly through the efforts of the Greek delegation, in order to make the reunification more palatable to their homelands. Most significant of these concessions was the agreement that liturgy could be spoken in either Latin or Greek and that in liturgy any ecumenical creed could be used, as long as outside of liturgical practices everyone affirmed all the ecumenical creeds, including the unifying Creed of Florence. This, of course, was a huge concession for the Greeks, who could continue using their Nicene-Constantinople Creed that omitted the filioque clause in their liturgy. Perhaps the only reason the Greeks managed to get this passed was that they managed to sneak it in as an article giving the power to set liturgies at a local level to the local synods. Since there was no standard liturgy at this time, this was a compromise between those who didn’t want their local liturgical practices to change with those who wanted to standardize liturgy as part of their reformist goals.
Meanwhile, though the council officially disbanded on the Eve of the New Year, 1439, the promise to the Greeks for aid was, surprisingly enough, kept. During the course of the local councils of 1440, the reformist spirit, led by the populist-leaning Council of Doctors, quickly moved to curb the wealth and power of the more corrupt prelates. The money thus seized was distributed in a variety of places, some into various charities or into various funds to help the councils run, but quite a fair bit went towards supporting the crusade against the Turks which the Council of Florence had declared (a crusade that was later re-declared by the pope, along with a papal bull that declared that only the pope had the power to declare a crusade). In a move that would later prove significant, members in the local Council of Italy tried to strip the pope of the Papal States and force him into a vow of poverty as well. However, this measure was defeated through an unlikely alliance of the pope’s partisans as well as those who believed that such a move against the pope, the “first among equals” could only be made by an ecumenical council.
Slowly, the crusading armies built up their forces. In the east, King Władysław III of Poland agreed to join the crusade in return for the church’s recognition of his claim to the recently vacated throne of Hungary. Various veterans of the recent Hussite Crusade eagerly joined their hero Hunyadi while other veterans combined with Italian mercenaries joined the army of the great Italian warrior bishop Vitelleschi of Florence, who was personally bankrolled by the local Council of Italy who spared no expense in order to get him to leave Italy. In the west, a Venetian dominated coalition agreed to supply a fleet, which would join with the Romans[1] in preventing the Turks from crossing the Dardanelles and resupplying their European possessions. Added to these main armies were the smaller, but still notable contributions from the Holy Roman Empire, Burgundy, and Albania. Meanwhile, the Roman Empire would attempt to distract the Turks with a diversionary attack led by Constantine Palaiologos from Morea,[2] though their main goal was, obviously enough, to prevent the Turks from crossing the Straits.
By 1442, preparations were complete. In late March, four armies set out, intending to be four daggers into the heart of Turkish Europe. The first army, under Hunyadi, fresh from a victory over Ulrich II of Celje in a Hungarian civil war, invaded Serbia. The second army, under King Władysław III of Poland and Hungary moved south to liberate Wallachia. The third army, comprised of both crusaders, Italian mercenaries, and the contingents from the Holy Roman Empire and Burgundy, led by Vitelleschi moved into Bosnia. Finally, he fourth army, led by Constantine Palaiologos marched northward from Morea.
The opening salvos of the crusade did not come from one of the Christian hosts, however, but from Ibrahim of Karaman, a Muslim leader in Anatolia. Shortly after this, both Hunyadi and Vitelleschi struck south, though both Władysław and Constantine were delayed. While the Turks, under Murad, concentrated on Ibrahim, Hunyadi, together with the exiled Serbian despot Đurađ Branković, smashed through the defenses of Serbia, crushing the Turkish general Kasim Pasha, and forcing the later to flee to Sofia. By the end of summer, Hunyadi had pacified Serbia and had linked up with Vitelleschi, who had, with characteristic brutality, conquered Bosnia, his army leaving behind a wake of destruction. Together, the now combined armies marched towards Sofia, though hampered by the scorched-earth policy employed by the Turks.
In other places, things did not go as well. As Hunyadi was romping through the Serbian countryside in the spring and summer of 1442, Constantine was still repairing the defensive wall across the isthmus of Corinth, as he refused to go beyond that point without the fortification to protect him in case of failure. In addition, the combined fleet was held up, and no one seemed to know when they would reach the rendezvous point. Lastly, for some unexplained reason, Władysław began moving south into Wallachia only in August, after the news of Hunyadi’s and Vitelleschi’s successes reached him.
Meanwhile, the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi force had reached Sofia, only to find it a burnt ruin as the Turks had torched it to prevent it from falling into the crusader’s hands. The route further south seemed to be blocked by the mountainous terrain as the Turks took up strong defensive positions at Zlatitsa Pass, where they’re deficiency in numbers was negated. Here, Hunyadi, who had by this point become famous for his aggressive tactics that bordered on reckless, favored an attack. Meanwhile, Vitelleschi’s condottieri background shone through as he proved to be unwilling to risk battle against a fortified foe. A sharp disagreement broke out between the two men which lead to Hunyadi advancing, while Vitelleschi remained at Sofia. At the battle of Zlatitsa Pass, Hunyadi proved unable to break through the Turk defenses. A vigorous Turkish counterattack forced Hunyadi to withdraw, his army being saved from a rout only by the defensive maneuvers of some wagenburg[3]. After this defeat, Hunyadi withdrew to a few miles south-east of Sofia and proceeded to exchange several angry letters with Vitelleschi. Hunyadi blamed the defeat on Vitelleschi refusing to support him, while Vitelleschi blamed the defeat on Hunyadi’s foolhardiness. As a result of the fallout between the two men, neither army moved as the commanders were busier blaming the other than risking another battle against the dug in Turks.
By this time, Murad had defeated Ibrahim of Karaman and was ready to deal with the crusaders. A daring night crossing across the guarded strait brought Murad himself into Europe, though he was forced to leave most of his army behind in Anatolia. This deficiency was partially compensated for by the arrival of a large contingent of Genoese mercenaries. Seeing the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi offensive stalled, and unworried about Constantine in the south, Murad decided to concentrate against the slow moving Władysław.
By September, the two armies were facing each other near the town of Targoviste. The Polish-Hungarian army consisted of 8 banners with a total nearing 10,000 men. Facing them, Murad had about twice as many men. The battle opened with a charge by light Turkish and Arab cavalry on the Polish left, which was slowed by the defensive fire of the Poles. As the cavalry retreated, they were counterattacked by the Poles. However, the retreat was partially a feint, as the Poles, disorganized by the attack, were themselves attacked by a fresh force. Meanwhile, on the Polish right, the Turkish attack was stymied by the Wagenburg deployed against them. After several futile charges, the Turks pulled back. As this was going on, the center was punctuated by inconclusive, but incredibly bloody clashes. By nightfall, however, the Polish center was being pushed back, as Władysław had been forced to weaken it in order to support his battered flanks. As night fell, the Poles retreated. The Battle of Targoviste, while technically a Turkish victory, proved to be a strategic draw. Perhaps unnerved by the heavy casualties he suffered, Murad proved timid in chasing the weakened Crusader army, allowing them to eventually reform and take up a strong defensive position.
After this both sides went into winter quarters. As 1442 ended, the crusaders had some hope. Despite their quarrel, which led to the stalling of the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi offensive, they still managed to liberate Bosnia and Serbia, as well as penetrate to Sofia. Though failing in conquering Wallachia, Władysław had managed blunt Murad’s counterattack, pinning him as well as his army in Wallachia. Meanwhile, Constantine had finally, near the end of the year, gone on the offensive, and had rounded out the victories of the crusaders by forcing the Duchy of Athens to renounce its fealty towards the Turks and join the side of the crusaders.
[1]a.k.a. the Byzantines
[2]Greece
[3] Hussite inspired war-wagons
The Sacred Bonds:
Chapter 2
Chapter 2
Chapter 1
The holy synod of Florence, representing the universal church, legitimately assembled in the Holy Spirit, for the glory of almighty God, the exaltation of the catholic faith and the progress of the Christian religion, laying its foundation on the cornerstone Christ Jesus, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord, established this by its decree as follows:
Long has the Church sought to heal the wounds of schism, inflicted by the Devil. And now, with such a holy task accomplished, it would be shameful to ignore the troubles of our brothers. For who ignores the leg when it is in pain? But rather one seeks, by whatever means necessary to heal it. In such a manner, the oriental church, is now being trampled under foot of the infidels. Whereby how great a danger threatens the church of God and the whole of Christianity, we both know ourselves and do not believe it should be hid from your prudence.
We exhort therefore all of you in God, we ask and command, and, for the remission of sins enjoin: that those who are of God, and, above all, the greater men and the nobles do manfully gird themselves; and that you strive so to oppose the multitude of the infidels, who rejoice at the time in a victory gained over us, and so to defend the oriental church, and to snatch many thousands of your captive brothers from their hands, that the dignity of the Christian name may be increased in your time, and that your valor which is praised throughout the whole world, may remain intact and unshaken. May that good Matthias be an example to you, who, to preserve the laws of his fathers, did not in the least doubt to expose himself with his sons and relations to death, and to leave whatever he possessed in the world; and who at length, by the help of the divine aid, after many labors however, did, as well as his progeny, manfully triumph over his enemies.
We, moreover, providing with paternal solicitude for your tranquility and for the destitution of that same church, do grant and confirm by the authority conceded to us of God, to those who by the promptings of devotion do decide to undertake and to carry through so holy and so necessary a work and labor, that remission of sins and do decree that their wives and sons, their goods also and possessions shall remain under the protection of this council, and of the archbishops, bishops and other prelates of the church of God. By the authority granted to the Church of God, moreover, we forbid that, in the case of any thing, which they possessed in peace, when they took the cross, any suit be brought hereafter until most certain news has been obtained concerning their return or their death. Moreover since those who war for the Lord should by no means prepare themselves with precious garments, nor with provision for their personal appearance, nor with dogs or hawks , other things which portend licentiousness: we exhort your prudence in the Lord that those who have decided to undertake so holy a work shall not strive after these things, but shall show zeal and diligence with all their strength in the matter of arms, horses and other things with which they may fight the infidels. But those who are oppressed by debt and begin so holy a journey with a pure heart, shall not pay interest for the time past, and if they are bound by an oath or pledge in the matter of interest, we absolve. It is allowed to them also when their relations, being warned, or the lords to whose fee they belong, are either unwilling or unable to advance them the money, to freely pledge without any reclamation, their lands or other possessions to churches, or ecclesiastical persons, or to any other of the faithful. By the authority of almighty God and, which has been conceded to us by God, we grant such remission and absolution of sins, that he who shall devoutly begin so sacred a journey and shall accomplish it, or shall die during it, shall obtain absolution for all his sins which with a humble and contrite heart he shall confess, and shall receive the fruit of eternal retribution from the Remunerator of all.
-Declaration of Crusade from the Council of Florence, 5 January, in the Year of our Lord 1440
Even though the sensational news of the reunification of the church overshadowed many of the programs established by the Council of Basel, and later Council of Florence, it was not the only program established, nor arguably was it even the program that would have the most impact on the Church. The second most important program for many, after the reunification of the church, were the concrete steps taken in order to ensure the continual prosperity of the church councils.
To this end, it was decreed by general agreement that the council would reconvene in 1450 in Florence, which would become the future site of all such councils. In order to ensure that the counciliarism party wouldn’t lose ground until then, local councils were established. These local councils would cover a smaller geographical area and make decisions at a more local level. The ecumenical councils at Florence, then, would be reserved for matters which transcended local boundaries.
Another important step was the reorganization of the council. Previous to this, the council had been divided by concerns, so that there was a body that only dealt with liturgy, another which dealt with peace, another which investigated heresy. This arrangement, however, had proved itself unwieldy, almost to the point in destroying the council at several key points. To overcome this, local councils, as well as all future ecumenical councils would be divided by position, with two main branches of the council, the Council of Primates and the Council of Doctors. The Council of Primates, as indicated by its name, would be the more exclusive group, limited only to the upper levels of the church hierarchy. The Council of Doctors would be open to everyone else, members of the various church orders, teachers at universities, and lower levels of clergy.
Finally, there was a group of decrees contemptuously known by its enemies, which at this point was virtually limited to the pope, as the “Surrender to the Greeks.” As the contemptuous title indicated, this series of legislation was passed, mainly through the efforts of the Greek delegation, in order to make the reunification more palatable to their homelands. Most significant of these concessions was the agreement that liturgy could be spoken in either Latin or Greek and that in liturgy any ecumenical creed could be used, as long as outside of liturgical practices everyone affirmed all the ecumenical creeds, including the unifying Creed of Florence. This, of course, was a huge concession for the Greeks, who could continue using their Nicene-Constantinople Creed that omitted the filioque clause in their liturgy. Perhaps the only reason the Greeks managed to get this passed was that they managed to sneak it in as an article giving the power to set liturgies at a local level to the local synods. Since there was no standard liturgy at this time, this was a compromise between those who didn’t want their local liturgical practices to change with those who wanted to standardize liturgy as part of their reformist goals.
Meanwhile, though the council officially disbanded on the Eve of the New Year, 1439, the promise to the Greeks for aid was, surprisingly enough, kept. During the course of the local councils of 1440, the reformist spirit, led by the populist-leaning Council of Doctors, quickly moved to curb the wealth and power of the more corrupt prelates. The money thus seized was distributed in a variety of places, some into various charities or into various funds to help the councils run, but quite a fair bit went towards supporting the crusade against the Turks which the Council of Florence had declared (a crusade that was later re-declared by the pope, along with a papal bull that declared that only the pope had the power to declare a crusade). In a move that would later prove significant, members in the local Council of Italy tried to strip the pope of the Papal States and force him into a vow of poverty as well. However, this measure was defeated through an unlikely alliance of the pope’s partisans as well as those who believed that such a move against the pope, the “first among equals” could only be made by an ecumenical council.
Slowly, the crusading armies built up their forces. In the east, King Władysław III of Poland agreed to join the crusade in return for the church’s recognition of his claim to the recently vacated throne of Hungary. Various veterans of the recent Hussite Crusade eagerly joined their hero Hunyadi while other veterans combined with Italian mercenaries joined the army of the great Italian warrior bishop Vitelleschi of Florence, who was personally bankrolled by the local Council of Italy who spared no expense in order to get him to leave Italy. In the west, a Venetian dominated coalition agreed to supply a fleet, which would join with the Romans[1] in preventing the Turks from crossing the Dardanelles and resupplying their European possessions. Added to these main armies were the smaller, but still notable contributions from the Holy Roman Empire, Burgundy, and Albania. Meanwhile, the Roman Empire would attempt to distract the Turks with a diversionary attack led by Constantine Palaiologos from Morea,[2] though their main goal was, obviously enough, to prevent the Turks from crossing the Straits.
By 1442, preparations were complete. In late March, four armies set out, intending to be four daggers into the heart of Turkish Europe. The first army, under Hunyadi, fresh from a victory over Ulrich II of Celje in a Hungarian civil war, invaded Serbia. The second army, under King Władysław III of Poland and Hungary moved south to liberate Wallachia. The third army, comprised of both crusaders, Italian mercenaries, and the contingents from the Holy Roman Empire and Burgundy, led by Vitelleschi moved into Bosnia. Finally, he fourth army, led by Constantine Palaiologos marched northward from Morea.
The opening salvos of the crusade did not come from one of the Christian hosts, however, but from Ibrahim of Karaman, a Muslim leader in Anatolia. Shortly after this, both Hunyadi and Vitelleschi struck south, though both Władysław and Constantine were delayed. While the Turks, under Murad, concentrated on Ibrahim, Hunyadi, together with the exiled Serbian despot Đurađ Branković, smashed through the defenses of Serbia, crushing the Turkish general Kasim Pasha, and forcing the later to flee to Sofia. By the end of summer, Hunyadi had pacified Serbia and had linked up with Vitelleschi, who had, with characteristic brutality, conquered Bosnia, his army leaving behind a wake of destruction. Together, the now combined armies marched towards Sofia, though hampered by the scorched-earth policy employed by the Turks.
In other places, things did not go as well. As Hunyadi was romping through the Serbian countryside in the spring and summer of 1442, Constantine was still repairing the defensive wall across the isthmus of Corinth, as he refused to go beyond that point without the fortification to protect him in case of failure. In addition, the combined fleet was held up, and no one seemed to know when they would reach the rendezvous point. Lastly, for some unexplained reason, Władysław began moving south into Wallachia only in August, after the news of Hunyadi’s and Vitelleschi’s successes reached him.
Meanwhile, the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi force had reached Sofia, only to find it a burnt ruin as the Turks had torched it to prevent it from falling into the crusader’s hands. The route further south seemed to be blocked by the mountainous terrain as the Turks took up strong defensive positions at Zlatitsa Pass, where they’re deficiency in numbers was negated. Here, Hunyadi, who had by this point become famous for his aggressive tactics that bordered on reckless, favored an attack. Meanwhile, Vitelleschi’s condottieri background shone through as he proved to be unwilling to risk battle against a fortified foe. A sharp disagreement broke out between the two men which lead to Hunyadi advancing, while Vitelleschi remained at Sofia. At the battle of Zlatitsa Pass, Hunyadi proved unable to break through the Turk defenses. A vigorous Turkish counterattack forced Hunyadi to withdraw, his army being saved from a rout only by the defensive maneuvers of some wagenburg[3]. After this defeat, Hunyadi withdrew to a few miles south-east of Sofia and proceeded to exchange several angry letters with Vitelleschi. Hunyadi blamed the defeat on Vitelleschi refusing to support him, while Vitelleschi blamed the defeat on Hunyadi’s foolhardiness. As a result of the fallout between the two men, neither army moved as the commanders were busier blaming the other than risking another battle against the dug in Turks.
By this time, Murad had defeated Ibrahim of Karaman and was ready to deal with the crusaders. A daring night crossing across the guarded strait brought Murad himself into Europe, though he was forced to leave most of his army behind in Anatolia. This deficiency was partially compensated for by the arrival of a large contingent of Genoese mercenaries. Seeing the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi offensive stalled, and unworried about Constantine in the south, Murad decided to concentrate against the slow moving Władysław.
By September, the two armies were facing each other near the town of Targoviste. The Polish-Hungarian army consisted of 8 banners with a total nearing 10,000 men. Facing them, Murad had about twice as many men. The battle opened with a charge by light Turkish and Arab cavalry on the Polish left, which was slowed by the defensive fire of the Poles. As the cavalry retreated, they were counterattacked by the Poles. However, the retreat was partially a feint, as the Poles, disorganized by the attack, were themselves attacked by a fresh force. Meanwhile, on the Polish right, the Turkish attack was stymied by the Wagenburg deployed against them. After several futile charges, the Turks pulled back. As this was going on, the center was punctuated by inconclusive, but incredibly bloody clashes. By nightfall, however, the Polish center was being pushed back, as Władysław had been forced to weaken it in order to support his battered flanks. As night fell, the Poles retreated. The Battle of Targoviste, while technically a Turkish victory, proved to be a strategic draw. Perhaps unnerved by the heavy casualties he suffered, Murad proved timid in chasing the weakened Crusader army, allowing them to eventually reform and take up a strong defensive position.
After this both sides went into winter quarters. As 1442 ended, the crusaders had some hope. Despite their quarrel, which led to the stalling of the Hunyadi-Vitelleschi offensive, they still managed to liberate Bosnia and Serbia, as well as penetrate to Sofia. Though failing in conquering Wallachia, Władysław had managed blunt Murad’s counterattack, pinning him as well as his army in Wallachia. Meanwhile, Constantine had finally, near the end of the year, gone on the offensive, and had rounded out the victories of the crusaders by forcing the Duchy of Athens to renounce its fealty towards the Turks and join the side of the crusaders.
[1]a.k.a. the Byzantines
[2]Greece
[3] Hussite inspired war-wagons
das
Regeneration In Process
Early revolutionary Germany went crazy with self-determination, plus was incapable of reining in the Polish separatists. After a period of power-struggles, though, more hard-line "national socialist" leaders came to power and began reasserting the "historic German heartlands" - they just aren't quite done yet, plus they fear that an attack on Poland might result in a two-front war.
The Strategos - yay, Hunyadi.
Vitelleschi is awesome as well, now that I've read up on him. May he gain great political leverage from this campaign and use it to crush conciliarism. Władysław, surely.
Anyway, looking forward to see where this goes. Even though it may take some time.
The Strategos
Thanatos
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 1,175
@das: Your praise of Hunyadi and hope for Vitelleschi (yes, he was awesome) have been duly noted. And thank you for pointing out the mistake, it has been fixed.
@all: I've stuck to this style for a while now, so I think I've given enough examples to take a poll about it. Namely, do you guys like the "flavor" piece (the italicized text at the beginning) or do you skim over them to get to the real "meat" of the post?
@all: I've stuck to this style for a while now, so I think I've given enough examples to take a poll about it. Namely, do you guys like the "flavor" piece (the italicized text at the beginning) or do you skim over them to get to the real "meat" of the post?
das
Regeneration In Process
Well, I read them out of general respect for official-religious texts. The first one was very appropriate in setting the mood, as well. The second was somewhat less so, though it still worked (an Eastern European chronicle might've done as well or better; this was a golden age as far as these were concerned, after all). So in the end, I support keeping them.
Swissempire
Poet Jester
I like it Strategos. At the very end it should be "Duke of Athens".
I've been working on a alt-history for Creative Writing class where Hunyadi dies before Belgrade, but i think i'll wait for posting until Strategos's epic is duly finished, read and digested. Do you mind if i steal some ideas and facts from your work?
I've been working on a alt-history for Creative Writing class where Hunyadi dies before Belgrade, but i think i'll wait for posting until Strategos's epic is duly finished, read and digested. Do you mind if i steal some ideas and facts from your work?
carmen510
Deity
@das
The only reason I don't play NESes above 500 AD and below the 1900s is because it is so frikkin confusing for me to distinguish German/Italian/Eastern European provinces. Could you please tell me the colors that match to the countries?
The only reason I don't play NESes above 500 AD and below the 1900s is because it is so frikkin confusing for me to distinguish German/Italian/Eastern European provinces. Could you please tell me the colors that match to the countries?
