American flag

[Håkan Eriksson]

I am sick of people saying the American flag is a symbol of freedom. To me the American flag is a symbol of capitalism, corporate greed, police brutality, and government corruption for those under the age of 60, death penlaty, children with guns, war. What is sickening is that people are flying that symbol of oppression like it's something to be proud of. The only way I will fly so-called "old glory" is that if it was on fire.......

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Ok, just to be clear:

Regarding the attack on America.

The terrorist attack against the US was a terrible and very bad thing. I would rely like to se the responsible dead. I feel for the American people but I hope that this would be a wake up call for you Americans to stop being so prejudiced,against:

1)people of diffrent races (both blacks AND whites)

2)diffrent genders (no,your genetailia does not make you superior)

3)financial status.

It isn't good but this is what america gets for being so intolerant of others who are less fortunate.

 

[Mikoyan]

As you already may have figured out, i think Håkan is completely correct.

 

[CornMaster]

I mostly agree with Håkan.

The American Flag USED to represent freedom from oppressive England. Back in the 1700's and 1800's. But times change....and although America is a better country than it's ever been...it has to let go of the past, and things like racsim and gender inequality.

It also needs to re-write the Constution and Bill of Rights and modernize them. We can't base out laws on 200 year old ideas. They are obsolete.

For Example: "The right to bear arms." Was written when American had to defend themselves from attacking Indians, and other Native Peoples. Well...I think this is VERY outdated. I don't remember when the last Indian raid was.

"But that's just my opinion and I could be wrong." Dennis Miller

 

[starlifter]

To me

That is the operative phrase.... I lot of other American-bashers in the world would agree, and then some. Staying within even the context of today, Osama bin Laden views the American flag as a representation of most of what he hates about the west.

Since it is your opinion, you're entitled to it. Some people also believe the Earth is flat, or that no people have been to the Moon or even to Space.

But as usual, America remains the bastillon of freedom, even for those who choose to dislike is while living in the free world under it's Aegis.

 

[goodyhut]

I Pledge Allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

The flag is the symbol of our national unity, our national endeavor, our national aspiration.
The flag tells of the struggle for independence, of union preserved, of liberty and union one and inseparable, of the sacrifices of brave men and women to whom the ideals and honor of this nation have been dearer than life.
It means America first; it means an undivided allegiance.
It means America united, strong and efficient, equal to her tasks.
It means that you cannot be saved by the valor and devotion of your ancestors, that to each generation comes its patriotic duty; and that upon your willingness to sacrifice and endure as those before you have sacrificed and endured rests the national hope.
It speaks of equal rights, of the inspiration of free institutions exemplified and vindicated, of liberty under law intelligently conceived and impartially administrated. There is not a thread in it but scorns self-indulgence, weakness, and rapacity.
It is eloquent of our community interests, outweighing all divergencies of opinion, and of our common destiny.

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by goodyhut
The flag is the symbol of our national unity, our national endeavor, our national aspiration.
The flag tells of the struggle for independence, of union preserved, of liberty and union one and inseparable, of the sacrifices of brave men and women to whom the ideals and honor of this nation have been dearer than life.
It means America first; it means an undivided allegiance.
It means America united, strong and efficient, equal to her tasks.
It means that you cannot be saved by the valor and devotion of your ancestors, that to each generation comes its patriotic duty; and that upon your willingness to sacrifice and endure as those before you have sacrificed and endured rests the national hope.
It speaks of equal rights, of the inspiration of free institutions exemplified and vindicated, of liberty under law intelligently conceived and impartially administrated. There is not a thread in it but scorns self-indulgence, weakness, and rapacity.
It is eloquent of our community interests, outweighing all divergencies of opinion, and of our common destiny.

You know.......some people would call that Nationalist Propoganda. Like Italy, and Germany during WW2.

Just an FYI.

 

[goodyhut]

In reply to Cornmaster. Since propaganda is the spreading of rumors I don't really understand what you mean. The topic is about the national symbol for The United States of America and what it stands for. It is the symbol used to rally American's spirits to unification against tyrany and injustice. It is indeed a nationalist symbol, as it, or any other country's flag, is intended to be.

 

[BaseballJones]

Hey CM, the "right to bear arms" was not really for protection against Indians, it was more against the British if that makes any sense. Before the American Revolution the British would just come into houses and ransack them and take the guns from the people. And as for the American flag not standing for freedom, well, I think it still does. It shows our history, of when we were a really free country. And you can't just go and change a flag nowadays(what a southern word .) Also, nowadays(there it is again), no preisdent or senator would even bring up the idea of changing the bill of rights or the Declaration of Independence, b/c that would essentially mean that that person wouldn't get reelected.

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by goodyhut
In reply to Cornmaster. Since propaganda is the spreading of rumors I don't really understand what you mean. The topic is about the national symbol for The United States of America and what it stands for. It is the symbol used to rally American's spirits to unification against tyrany and injustice. It is indeed a nationalist symbol, as it, or any other country's flag, is intended to be.

I know...that's what I said.

If people disagree with what America stands for then your statement becomes Propaganda (thanks for proper spelling. ) That's the same for every country. Germany, for example, believed what they were doing was right, and the people that followed them were Nationalist. We call it Propaganda, but to them it's the fundamental basis of their ideals.

Now I'm not saying Nazi Germany is the USA!!! I'm just showing you a very good example of what I mean. And of course...this can happen in ANY country. Even Canada!!!

 

[Mikoyan]

And a big yee-haa-yippie-kay-yay to that! (yuck!)
[punch] :soldier: :rocket: :slay:
The stars and stripe shall burn forever- Janis Papantoniou

 

[BlueMonday]

Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson
I am sick of people saying the American flag is a symbol of freedom. To me the American flag is a symbol of capitalism, corporate greed, police brutality, and government corruption for those under the age of 60, death penlaty, children with guns, war. What is sickening is that people are flying that symbol of oppression like it's something to be proud of. The only way I will fly so-called "old glory" is that if it was on fire.......

Face it Hakan, you don't know **** about America. You could associate any country's flag with all the bad things it's done. I'm positive your country has got a whole heap of blood on it's hands too. But I don't accuse your country of being a bad country, so don't accuse mine of the same. :midfinger: you and your holier-than-thou attitude.

 

[Mikoyan]

Sweden with bloody hands? hah!

 

[BlueMonday]

Originally posted by Mikoyan
Sweden with bloody hands? hah!

Yeah, it must be impossible to to anger a people whose day consists solely of saunas and sex.

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Sweden with bloody hands.... yeah like 200 years ago was our last war...... your (USA) last war is going on.


Just think about one thing. Wath is the reason that some "Arabic" people hate USA and not Sweden.

 

[goodyhut]

Originally posted by CornMaster

If people disagree with what America stands for then your statement becomes Propaganda (thanks for proper spelling. ) That's the same for every country. Germany, for example, believed what they were doing was right, and the people that followed them were Nationalist. We call it Propaganda, but to them it's the fundamental basis of their ideals.

Just to reiterate... It (the American flag) speaks of equal rights, of the inspiration of free institutions exemplified and vindicated, of liberty under law intelligently conceived and impartially administrated. There is not a thread in it but scorns self-indulgence, weakness, and rapacity.

Those are basic values that the flag stands for throughout the world. These are values that if somebody disagrees with, then they aare disagreeing not with America but with civilization in general. You can't even begin to compare the German situation to the what's going on right now. To have even brought that up is absolutely ludicrous. You can say what you want, but if you want people to listen to what you are saying you should compare apples to apples.

 

[BlueMonday]

Originally posted by Håkan Eriksson
Just think about one thing. Wath is the reason that some "Arabic" people hate USA and not Sweden.

Some Islamic people hate the U.S. becuase they are doing the same thing you're doing: making a precursor judgement. They see only the bad things America does in Palestine and the rest of the world (just like you). And they assume that all America is bad and awful and corrupt and it people are all evil and deserve to die (just like you). And they blind themselves to the all the bad things they do and how awful their leaders are (also, just like you).

That's the issue at the core of this whole f***-up. They don't understand us, and we don't understand them. Maybe if we all saw the forest for the trees we could avoid this debachery. But we don't. We illustrate illusions for ourselves. You don't know s*** about my country, and I don't know s*** about yours. From now on, I'm going to assume that all Swedes are as narrow-minded and hateful as you.

"We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are."

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by goodyhut
To have even brought that up is absolutely ludicrous. You can say what you want, but if you want people to listen to what you are saying you should compare apples to apples.

I said...and I QUOTE (see the quote thingy )

Originally posted by CornMaster
Now I'm not saying Nazi Germany is the USA!!! I'm just showing you a very good example of what I mean. And of course...this can happen in ANY country. Even Canada!!!

I did not say that the USA was like Nazi Germany!! It's absolutely ludicrous for you to say that I said that!!!

 

[Magnus]

Originally posted by Mikoyan
Sweden with bloody hands? hah!

yea right, better to kiss Hitler's ass in WW2 then bloody your hands fighting fascism.....

 

[goodyhut]

Originally posted by CornMaster


I said...and I QUOTE (see the quote thingy ) What???

I did not say that the USA was like Nazi Germany!! It's absolutely ludicrous for you to say that I said that!!!

It's all good CornMaster. I know you didn't say the USA was like Germany in so many words. But you did follow a sentance describing the "propaganda" of the United States with a sentance that started with For instance in Germany... There are serious implications that the USA is like Germany or could become like Germany if it keeps going down the same path.

As for the reason some predominately Muslim nations hate us, those aare actually fairly simple. It boils down to 2 main factors. One, we are by far the most powerful military organization on the planet. This gives us the primary responability to deal with international threats. And two, in fulfilling that responsability we have overstepped our bounds with Palistine / Israel.