Antifa the Terrorist Organization

[TheMeInTeam]

If antifa are "the real fascists" and you are against them, that means you are "antifa" and therefore a real fascist. Didn't think of this one, did you?

Organizations can be authoritarian scum without being fascists. We've seen plenty of examples, Antifa is a well-known one among many.

 

[Berzerker]

People who are oppose freedom of speech and perform political violence are a danger to society.

The violent suppression of free speech is not a danger to society silly boy

As I understand it comparing immigration detention camps to nazi death camps is anti-semitism.

So now we're on: people who are anti-semitic, oppose freedom of speech and espouse political violence are a danger to society.

Just dont say anything that upsets Antifa...or be in their way when someone else does and you should be fine. Btw, Lex believes in free speech

 

[Cloud_Strife]

First Antifa came for the Neo-Nazis/Fascists/Bigots/etc and i said nothing because actually Neo-Nazis and the like are scum and to be anything other than hostile to their existence is to allow them to grow and history has good enough examples of what happens when that is allowed.

And then Antifa went away after that.

 

[Estebonrober]

People who are oppose freedom of speech and perform political violence are a danger to society.

So we agree! Fascists should be resisted.

Surely you can see how that can be a pretty big danger to society when "opposition" is in the form of "blow up/attack/kill" and "fascism" is in the form of "the rest of society".

So it is my personal belief that fascism is definitely on the rise. That is has sympathetic people in high places of power from corporate governance to political governance. It is my opinion that this sympathy which is not even innocent of violence on a systemic scale now is very easily pushed into massive systemic violence. That the current policy being promoted here is indicative of the nature of this administration’s heart. It should be resisted. Violent resistance should only be a last possible resort, but I appreciate the fact that some think a little violence is called for now. I might not agree with them yet but it’s getting harder to argue it every week this moron and his sycophants open their mouths.

 

[Wastl]

Sometimes I do wonder why some people love to defend Antifa so much. Yes, the right loves to bash Antifa and pretends that it is one organization when it is anything but, but it is also absurd to claim that Antifa is some force of good. It is anything but. That can obviously differ from location to location, but here in Germany, especially in the larger cities, they have proven to be not one bit better than actual neo-Nazis. They see Nazis everywhere, even in completely regular people who just dare not to share their exact opinion on things, thus showing that they will not accept differences in opinion. They have used extreme measures of violence, have shown a clear disregard when it comes to social norms, have destroyed stuff from random people for the fun of it (lets burn down all the cheap small cars in this road, that will show the elites!), launched smear campaigns against stores and local shops sometimes for no other reason than that the owner happened to have the same name as a person they despise and thus was msitaken for somebody else (oops, tough luck I guess, better to go full steam ahead anyway instead of recognizing that you harmed someone wrongfully ), ruining the lives of the people in the process, and do not care one bit about democracy or justice. They fulfill the entire playbook when it comes to terrorizing people.

Just because they are against something vile and disgusting doesn't mean you have to defend them or pretend that they are somehow better than they truly are. In many places they have shown themselves to be just as bad as Neo-Nazis.There are of coruse exceptions to this, but in general there is no need to pretend that Antifa is something good. You can be against the far-right without looking like a radical clown with a disregard for society yourself.

 

[Gorbles]

Perhaps because "antifa" is a pointless and intentionally-vague conservative scapegoat? If you think they see Nazis everywhere, I'd say you're being deliberately hyperbolic. I mean, I'm sure you have sources for all the individual incidents you've raised. Some of them sound pretty high-profile, so surely they'll be covered by mainstream (and not just conservative) outlets?

It should be easy; even centrist media tends to abhor violence (for good and bad reasons); there aren't many dedicated left-wing outlets that I'm aware of these days really (mostly not in the UK, definitely not in the US, though obviously my German social media ain't up to scratch).

Organizations can be authoritarian scum without being fascists. We've seen plenty of examples, Antifa is a well-known one among many.

The first half of this is good (see how Communism with a capital C, i.e. the state doctrine in the USSR and later, China, isn't actually communism by theory, because, well, dictatorships. The theory doesn't work well if individuals can exploit it, and I'm not familiar with it enough to ever propose a version that could work), the second half is just really funny. I mean, people are using "antifa" when they mean what, exactly. The classic German network, it's more modern American equivalent, anybody who dresses in black and opposes neo-Nazis and white supremacists? What do people mean when they use this label? Neo-Nazis are pretty self-explanatory. Even white supremacists are (i.e. it's not as simple as just being racist).

Like, there isn't a coherent ideology at work here. It's anti-facism, simply put. There are tons of people that oppose fascism, and this by default makes you anti-fascist on that axis alone. There are individual groups who use specific tactics, or whom are based primarily in certain countries, but "antifa" is being used as some kind of weird catchall when it's anything but. It's a dangerously loose grouping that if weaponised could see people arrested for literally, well, opposing neo-Nazis.

If you think I'm being hyperbolic, the US is currently in a rightwing swing; Republicans run the show (however well, vs. however well-organised opposition, both are asides for the point I'm making). If a label as generic as "antifa" can be labelled terrorist, and anyone even has the most passing familiarity with what powers that grants government agents, Republicans will only look to strengthen those kinds of powers and escalate punishment (see: restarting federal executions). By justifying anti-terrorist actions against something this vaguely-defined, you open it up to be used similarly against other such loose groupings. It also demonstrates an incredible lack of reading on what anti-fascist behaviour actually is. It doesn't have to be violent, and mostly isn't. Black bloc tactics are tactics, and not used solely by anti-fascist activists.

 

[BvBPL]

Sometimes I do wonder why some people love to defend Antifa so much.

People are living in fear from forces beyond their ken and seemingly past their ability to affect. That fear response breeds hatred, selfishness, and insularity. Acting from hatred and selfishness makes them feel empowered against their fear. It’s a psychological defense mechanism.

 

[Estebonrober]

People are living in fear from forces beyond their ken and seemingly past their ability to affect. That fear response breeds hatred, selfishness, and insularity. Acting from hatred and selfishness makes them feel empowered against their fear. It’s a psychological defense mechanism.

Of course this is exactly how I’d describe the rise of populist fascism. I appreciate that irony, but again one side is calling for a culling and the other is calling for equality.

 

[Gorbles]

A good point I just came across (on Twitter, don't like linking URLs publicly mainly for harassment vectors - nothing against folks on here, just on principle) is, and this is key: "antifa" isn't an organisation. It's a political (and social, arguably) position. There are no membership rolls. You can be treated as a terrorist, assuming it all goes ahead swimmingly for the right-wing politicians in the US, simply for being kinda maybe somewhere in this vague political grouping. That's really quite dangerous.

I'm no fan of slippery slopes, right? But this isn't a slope. We're there. The next literal, actual step is people in jail (at best, invisibly detained on a hunch at worst) for having political (not racist, not supremacist, not eugenics-related) opinions. Or even if you attend something like the Women's March.

But I guess it's okay, because they're (nominally) left-wing.

 

[Senethro]

Don't worry guys. In 2080 right wing *******s will defend our use of internment/concentration camps as acceptable for "men of our time".

 

[BvBPL]

Of course this is exactly how I’d describe the rise of populist fascism.

And you’d be right.

 

[Hehehe]

I thought we all agree that political violence is bad, and therefore it has no place in a civilized society? Therefore, it shouldn't be difficult to denounce any political violence, whether it is committed by the left or the right or by anything else? If political violence is a problem, let the police handle it. Increase police presence and funding if necessary.

 

[Gorbles]

If police are tools of the state (which they are, pretty fundamentally), does that make any violence inflicted by police, even by accident, also political violence?

I think we really need clarification on these terms that are just being accepted as something here. Especially as country-specific interpretations could be at play.

EDIT

Not trying for a gotcha either, I think it's fascinating to explore what people consider political violence, and what forms of this are or aren't acceptable.

For the record, I find it weird that people are getting hung up over extremist tactics by apparent anti-fascist activists, because there are always minorities in any group that people claim do not represent the whole. Mainstream attitudes to abusive police officers, for example.

EDITEDIT

Huh, I think I've figured out why prominent conservatives are so keen to label "antifa" as such a wide-ranging group of people. Can't use the defense of it being a minority if you effectively sell that via conservative (and therefore into centrist) news articles to the general population.

This isn't a new realisation for people familiar with it. Just new to me, thinking it over this evening.

 

[Peuri]

I have a strange feeling of déjà-vu. They must have changed something...

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Serial killers are clearly not a danger to society at large. And never will be. That actually is reality.

They're not a danger after they're caught. But before they're caught, they're a considerable danger to society.

 

[brennan]

I believe what he's saying is that while they are a danger to individuals they don't have a political agenda that threatens to backtrack on everyone's hard-won rights.

And then Antifa went away after that.

The history of violent authoritarians suggests that this may be wishful thinking.

 

[caketastydelish]

Yes, they are a terror/hate group. Good luck getting the "politically unmotivated" Southern Poverty Law Center to recognize them as such.

 

[Senethro]

If antifa are a crypto-authoritarian group looking to secure political power then who is their political wing? Who is their leader they are trying to bring to power?

 

[Lexicus]

Some major "I don't like that ruffian Hitler and his thugs but the Communists marched through town today and now the servants are looking me in the eye and calling me by my first name" energy in this thread

 

[Senethro]

"If the internment camps are not in your backyard, why are you so concerned about them? It can't be noise or litter or any legitimate reason."