Are smokers an unrightfully persecuted minority?

[civver_764]

What? You're claiming that I feel the need to justify my habit, because I feel good about being a smoker.

I'm not sure where the problem is? Did you misread my post maybe?

Everyone likes some peace of mind.

You talked about many lies. Can you name some more? I'm learning all kinds of things about me. This is really interesting

Well I can't speak for you specifically obviously but:

-smoking improves confidence
-smoking calms you down
-nicotine withdrawals are terrible (actually they're barely noticeable)

I hear those a lot from smokers.

 

[Agent327]

-nicotine withdrawals are terrible (actually they're barely noticeable)

I beg to differ. Initially the need for nicotine is very strong, but if you don't give in then indeed you barely notice it (may take a couple of weeks though).

Anywho, as to the OP: smokers are happy folk who voluntarily pay extra taxes. (And you may notice that the people who impose these taxes also occasionally take a whiff - preferably off cam, ofcourse.)

 

[Terxpahseyton]

It's just different definitions of intelligence. Some people have it mean 'capable of planning for the future they wish to live in', and other people associate it with the cleverness you'll test in an IQ test.

In the real world, these two things are correlated in their outcomes (IQ tends to correlate with the ability to plan for the future), but it's not an iron-clad correlation.

I must say I don't like 'capable of planning for the future they wish to live in' for intelligence. Intelligence to me is a completely technical skill. The ability to reason, deduct, induct, process informations etc (which aren't adequately represented by the IQ, mind you). Whereas the actual application by the individual is an entirely different matter. For that I see ones emotional state of affairs and ones attitudes as responsible. In the worst case, those factors may mean that a very intelligent person makes in his or her life decisions close to no use of his or her intelligence.

 

[Farm Boy]

I beg to differ. Initially the need for nicotine is very strong, but if you don't give in then indeed you barely notice it (may take a couple of weeks though).

Yep, depends on who you are. Withdrawal ranges from "oh it wasn't so bad," to world-crushingly horrible.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I'm not sure where the problem is? Did you misread my post maybe?

Lets explore that possibility:
It sounds more to me like one of the many lies smokers tell themselves to justify their habit.
So that you can smoke and feel good about it?

I'm reading 3 elements to your posts.
- Smokers tell many lies (to themselves)
- To justify their habit
- So they can smoke and feel good about it.

Am I reading it right so far?

Everyone likes some peace of mind.

No argument there.

Well I can't speak for you specifically obviously but:

I've been doing it for the last couple of posts.

Is that what you were about to say? Oh wait, no. It's a list of examples of the many lies.

- smoking improves confidence
- smoking calms you down
- nicotine withdrawals are terrible (actually they're barely noticeable)

I hear those a lot from smokers.

If someone is susceptible to the image, it might improve confidence.
The stuff in the cigarette calms you down because it's satisfying the addiction.
What makes you say nicotine withdrawals are barely noticeable?

 

[CaptainF]

Are smokers an unrightfully persecuted minority?

Nope. Warpus said it best. It is legal to purchase, possess and use your drug of choice. While many people do not like others smoking tobacco around them and may view tobacco smoking as disgusting, you cannot be prosecuted, fined or imprisoned simply because you smoke.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Come on man, social shaming and intolerance can be just as much a form of persecution.
"no, because it is legal" is honestly such a cheap answer

 

[civver_764]

I beg to differ. Initially the need for nicotine is very strong, but if you don't give in then indeed you barely notice it (may take a couple of weeks though).

Can you describe the sensation of this "need" for me?

Lets explore that possibility:
It sounds more to me like one of the many lies smokers tell themselves to justify their habit.
So that you can smoke and feel good about it?

I'm reading 3 elements to your posts.
- Smokers tell many lies (to themselves)
- To justify their habit
- So they can smoke and feel good about.

Am I reading it right so far?

Yeah that's right.

If someone is susceptible to the image, it might improve confidence.

That's very true actually.

The stuff in the cigarette calms you down because it's satisfying the addiction.

It calms down the part of you that says "HEY LETS SMOKE NOW" but nothing else.

What makes you say nicotine withdrawals are barely noticeable?

I've tried to quit numerous times and experienced it first hand, and I also read it in a book. There's really no physical discomfort at all, just thoughts that tell me I want a cigarrette. I routinely take days off from smoking cigarettes and feel just the same, save for more of a sex drive and more appetite.

But maybe it is different for other people I guess. What withdrawal symptoms do you guys experience when you go without a cigarette?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So as examples of the many lies, these weren't them.

 

[civver_764]

My original post was worded very foolishly and I apologize, but I still hold that many smokers do lie to themselves. I've personally met several. Just because some don't and sometimes for certain types of people those reasons are backed up doesn't change that.

 

[Farm Boy]

What withdrawal symptoms do you guys experience when you go without a cigarette?

Involuntary twitching. Inability to sleep for more than an hour or two a night. Inability to concentrate, nervous energy, and rage. Cold sweats. The worst lasted ~two weeks last time. It's been almost 3 months. It's finally significantly better on that front.

 

[civver_764]

Wow that honestly blows my mind. Thanks for sharing.

 

[classical_hero]

^ I don't think smoking and intelligence have anything to do with each other. Has way more to do with personality types and who you hang around with.

Of course, since you have to pretty stupid to take something that kills you earlier than normal.

 

[Zack]

Of course, since you have to pretty stupid to take something that kills you earlier than normal.

So eating a Big Mac is stupid?

 

[Agent327]

Well, it doesn't qualify as intelligent.

Can you describe the sensation of this "need" for me?

I would describe as a drug you suddenly stop taking:

Involuntary twitching. Inability to sleep for more than an hour or two a night. Inability to concentrate, nervous energy, and rage. Cold sweats. The worst lasted ~two weeks last time. It's been almost 3 months. It's finally significantly better on that front.

Which wasn't like that for me, but the description stands. Different people react differently to stopping with a drug.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Involuntary twitching. Inability to sleep for more than an hour or two a night. Inability to concentrate, nervous energy, and rage. Cold sweats. The worst lasted ~two weeks last time. It's been almost 3 months. It's finally significantly better on that front.

I have been wanting to ask you, but didn't want to remind you of it ... but since you brough it up yourself, good to hear things are going better.

Hang in there

Of course, since you have to pretty stupid to take something that kills you earlier than normal.

Please quantify stupid.

Is it more stupid than claiming a petrified waterwheel is evidence for a Young Earth?

Is it more stupid than your climate change denial?

Where would you rate it?

 

[Agent327]

Of course, since you have to pretty stupid to take something that kills you earlier than normal.

Do you understand the point of intelligence and drugs being unrelated?

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Of course, since you have to pretty stupid to take something that kills you earlier than normal.

What a ridiculous statement.
The individual lives in the moment and nowhere else. And moments don't necessarily get better because you have more of them.
Naturally, most people don't want to die. To what extend you have this fear dictate your life though isn't a matter of intelligence. It is simply a matter of attitude.

 

[Camikaze]

Everyone does stupid things. Smoking is one stupid thing (with 'stupidity' being an inter-subjectively defined concept; society broadly agrees that smoking is stupid), but saying someone is stupid is talking about the totality of their behaviour. Plenty of intelligent people smoke for whatever reason, and stupid though that individual decision might be, it doesn't mean they're less intelligent. When I find out someone is a smoker, I can't help but think they've made a stupid decision, but that doesn't mean that I think they're stupid, or that I'm not guilty of other stupid decisions. I think it's probably important to separate the judgment of one act an individual engages in from the judgment of that person as a whole, and to the extent that that isn't done, there might be something to be unfairness point.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

with 'stupidity' being an inter-subjectively defined concept; society broadly agrees that smoking is stupid

To have "society" determine what is stupid or not is putting the fox in charge of the henhouse if you ask me.