Are we fat because of antibiotics?

[Terxpahseyton]

Everyone is rich today.

Perhaps in freaking Norway.

@plarq
Besides the apparently huge impact the gut microbes have on us in a myriad of ways - it doesn't really matter weather "just-eating-less" or "just intake less calories than you burn" is a good recipe to not be or stop being fat (it is an [almost] unfailable rule of thumb, I agree - though still a rule of thumb since our bodies are complicated messes instead of standardizes machines).
It doesn't matter because it doesn't in itself matter what can be. What matters is what is. And science should try to understand what is - no? Rather than say sunning itself in moral superiority and shame people for allowing themselves to be fat, for instance. After all, in the end humans follow given rules as anything in this world (not that this absolves fat people from responsibility - rather it puts responsibility into the right context)

 

[The_J]

It's hard to fund this kind of research. It's not really within the mandate of any group, except maybe insurance providers. It's not really patentable, so it needs to be funded from groups that fund things for the greater good.

That is very relative.
If you specifically refer to gut microbiota + antibiotics + humans, then you're maybe right, but for the whole field it shouldn't be *that* hard. Okay, to be fair, I don't know how the grant applications work. But it's not so that nobody is interested in the whole area.
E.g. there are the companies who produce pro/prebiotics, who invest money in this area of research, medicall funding goes into that (crohn's disease/irritable bowel syndrom), potentially also feed manufacturers (what combination leads to more short chain fatty acids and to less gas?), and companies involved in animal production (these are most likely also most interested in this research; how to grow piglets etc. most effectively; might or might not involve killing the gut flora/prevening intitial colonization and introducing another one).
I say potentially, because I only know we get money somewhere from the first example, but if I look at our projects, then #3 and #4 must be involved as well.

 

[classical_hero]

It's hard to fund this kind of research. It's not really within the mandate of any group, except maybe insurance providers. It's not really patentable, so it needs to be funded from groups that fund things for the greater good.

Look at all the health costs associated with obesity. There just needs to be some will for people to look at the issue, but right now unfortunately there isn't.

 

[El_Machinae]

That is very relative.
If you specifically refer to gut microbiota + antibiotics + humans, then you're maybe right, but for the whole field it shouldn't be *that* hard. Okay, to be fair, I don't know how the grant applications work. But it's not so that nobody is interested in the whole area.
E.g. there are the companies who produce pro/prebiotics, who invest money in this area of research, medicall funding goes into that (crohn's disease/irritable bowel syndrom), potentially also feed manufacturers (what combination leads to more short chain fatty acids and to less gas?), and companies involved in animal production (these are most likely also most interested in this research; how to grow piglets etc. most effectively; might or might not involve killing the gut flora/prevening intitial colonization and introducing another one).
I say potentially, because I only know we get money somewhere from the first example, but if I look at our projects, then #3 and #4 must be involved as well.

I guess it's just not apparent if you don't work in the industry. People who sell probiotics don't fund research, 100% of their revenues come from media hype. There's certainly a gov't incentive to pursue this research, but that's about it. As it picks up, you'll find that the various charity orgs will fund it too. There's no money to be made here. There's nothing patentable.

Look at all the health costs associated with obesity. There just needs to be some will for people to look at the issue, but right now unfortunately there isn't.

Yes, like I said, any insurance providers have incentive (the largest insurance providers being places with socialized medicine). If we can crack this, then we'll just need awhile for people to accept the idea of fecal transplants, and then we could see systemic improvements.

There are a lot of issues that seem to be tied to the gut biome. It's a real thing. With high-throughput genetic sequencing, we could really see this type of research take off in the next two decades. Like I said, it's hampered by the lack of Business funding, but it's gonna be a real thing.

 

[classical_hero]

I think the break though would happen when we get an example of a disease we though had nothing to do with the balance of the gut flora setting off a chain reaction into other diseases we thought had nothing related to the area.

 

[El_Machinae]

It could. We DO seem to have that with obesity, right now. The biome experiments regarding obesity are pretty compelling.

It also might break when we have some doctor+patient combo that's desperate enough to try an actual fecal transplant. So, someone with a reasonably serious disease where they're getting to the point where they're willing to try anything

My personal suggestion would be to poke around clinicaltrial.gov every once in awhile. There might be an experiment popping up where they just want samples for analysis.

 

[classical_hero]

Yeah most people seem to think that the idea is absolutely gross, but we do know it work with those who have a C difficile infection as a result of antibiotic use and severe infections can cause death, but right now the idea is just "gross"

 

[uppi]

In mice that get lifelong doses of penicillin, yes:



If this was in Science & Technology (why isn't it, one must wonder) I imagine our nerds would be all over it.

One must wonder what humans take lifelong low doses of penicillin. Or not.

You missed this point:

Most intriguing, in a complementary group of experiments, mice given low doses of penicillin only during late pregnancy through nursing gained just as much weight as mice exposed to the antibiotic throughout their lives.

Livelong doses are not necessary for this effect. Low doses at critical points are already sufficient. And those might be unavoidable in certain cases. Its better being overweight than dead.

 

[Zack]

Everyone is rich today.

http://www.nclej.org/poverty-in-the-us.php

Census figures released in September 2013 confirm that record-high numbers of Americans are living in poverty. The latest data reveal:

One out of seven people in the USA are living in poverty.

In 2012, 46.5 million people were living in poverty in the United States—the largest number in the 54 years the Census has measured poverty.

The poverty rate (the percentage of all people in the United States who were poor) also remained at high levels: 15% for all Americans and 21.8% for children under age 18.

...

Almost one out of sixteen people in the USA are living in deep poverty.

People with income 50% below the poverty line are commonly referred to as living in deep poverty; Census figures show that, in 2012, 6.6% of our population, or 20.4 million people, were living in deep poverty.

 

[The_J]

I guess it's just not apparent if you don't work in the industry. People who sell probiotics don't fund research, 100% of their revenues come from media hype.

Just checked: The company who (partially) pays my cooperation partner has "probiotics" in their name. So they actually do fund research.

There are a lot of issues that seem to be tied to the gut biome. It's a real thing. With high-throughput genetic sequencing, we could really see this type of research take off in the next two decades. Like I said, it's hampered by the lack of Business funding, but it's gonna be a real thing.

Oh, meta omics is one of *the* big things right now.
In two decades it's probably not anymore a hype.

I think the break though would happen when we get an example of a disease we though had nothing to do with the balance of the gut flora setting off a chain reaction into other diseases we thought had nothing related to the area.

There have been quite some publications which connect the gut flora to autism, but I have no idea how good or bad they are, because my backlog of literature is piling up to the ceiling of my office.

 

[Darkflight]

http://www.nclej.org/poverty-in-the-us.php

They are living in poverty relative to Bill Gates. The average person who lived a 1000 years ago would kill for the wealth that the poor have today.

 

[Zack]

They are living in poverty relative to Bill Gates. The average person who lived a 1000 years ago would kill for the wealth that the poor have today.

http://feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/hunger-and-poverty-statistics.aspx

In 2012, 49.0 million Americans lived in food insecure households, 33.1 million adults and 15.9 million children.

In 2012, 15 percent of households (17.6 million households) were food insecure.

In 2012, 6 percent of households (7.0 million households) experienced very low food security.

Food insecurity exists in every county in America, ranging from a low of 4 percent in Slope County, ND to a high of 33 percent in Humphreys County, MS.[vi]

 

[warpus]

There are many reasons why people get fat.

I'm not very active, I don't eat very well, and I'm not fat, so I'll consider myself lucky.

 

[bhavv]

Maybe Im fat because:



Mmmmmm, makes my face and throat sooo high.

Wow, just eating two in a row is crazy overpowered and rather ouch.

 

[FriendlyFire]

^ 3kilo Jar :O

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm fat because I'm lazy and I eat until I'm ready to pop if I encounter something good.

 

[bhavv]

I'm not actually fat, I'm one of those lucky people that can eat anything and sit on my butt all day and not get fat.

I'll be going through around 3-4 of those sweets daily due to chronic tickly cough.

Though today I probably ate about 10. Its not possible to overdose on menthol is it? It feels sooo good.

 

[MilesGregarius]

Shouldn't the thread title read: "Are antibiotics a left-wing conspiracy to make us fat?" or some such?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Shouldn't the thread title read: "Are antibiotics a left-wing conspiracy to make us fat?" or some such?

Getting fat boils down to anti-biotics

 

[bhavv]

That's what it should be!!!!