Once you're fat, it's impossible to get permanently thin again.

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I'm curious what people here have to say about this (from a thread posted on the Cracked forums. Cursing is allowed there, so I'm not going to link to the thread itself. It's currently on the first page of this board.)

David Wong said:
And I mean impossible as in, it statistically rounds down to zero. I'm starting this thread because I want someone to show me, with a study, that I'm wrong. Not anecdotal evidence. A study.

Because what I'm finding is when somebody does go from severely obese to thin, it's a freak medical occurrence, like surviving a brain tumor after being told it's inoperable. I can't find any study that says I'm wrong. Everyone who loses the weight gains it back within a few years. Everyone outside of a tiny fraction of a percent.

For instance, this person did the math and found that 2 out of a 1,000 Weight Watchers customers actually keep the weight off permanently.

They wrote that in reaction to this horribly written news story boasting about the success of Weight Watchers, based on a study supplied by Weight Watchers involving only their most successful customers. They realized that once you break through the numbers, you find that their definition of "success" is keeping 5% of your weight off permanently. So, you were 300 lbs? Congratulations, you are now 285, you look exactly the same, and WW considers you a rare success story.

I'm starting to think that this is the great secret of modern society: People who permanently beat obesity are like people who permanently beat cancer.

We all know of somebody who did it, but their stories are amazing and remarkable because they are so rare. It's miraculously curing an incurable condition.

This article really drives it home:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

For a formerly fat person, exercise has far less benefit, and food stores itself as fat at a much higher rate, than somebody of the same weight who has never been fat. It's a challenge that is effectively impossible to overcome.

Every study, even those trying to find the opposite, find the same thing. There is even an organization dedicated to tracking down those miracle stories - the kind of people who lost 70 pounds and kept it off for five years or more - and they've found several thousand... in a country with 100 million obese people.

All of them did it by becoming fanatics, and basically making weight loss their job. They can keep it off in the same way that some people can build an Eiffel Tower out of toothpicks. They become obsessive and devote all of their spare time and energy to the project.

For everyone else, it's physically impossible. The body has too many defense mechanisms. Everything in your evolution is fighting against you -- once you reach a certain weight level, it will not let you drop below it for long. Again, yes, you can permanently lose 15 pounds. If you were only 15 pounds overweight, you weren't fat. I'm talking going from fat to thin -- the kind of "before and after" weight loss the diet drugs promise in the ads, from 250 to 160, that kind of loss.

It basically doesn't happen. It is effectively impossible.

David Wong said:
Here is the most comprehensive meta-analysis, studying a whole bunch of other studies on various weight loss programs over several years:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/5/579.full

Here's the depressing graph:

http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/5/579/F1.expansion.html

I've been through the charts, and they boast the success stories of people who started at 240 lbs, lost 50, and only regained 35 pounds of it to settle in at a svelte 225.

Nowhere in the study can I find where they even studied people who had the 90 or 100 pound "fat to thin" weight loss. I can't find a study anywhere on those people, outside of follow-up studies on surgical options.

EDIT: it looks like those studies combined studied 3,500 people who had participated in structured weight loss programs and saw some success. The average person lost 3% of their weight. So if you were 220 coming in, you were 213 after. Yay!

My thinking is that there might be a higher number of people successfully keeping off weight if they didn't universally believe that the right dosage of diet and exercise would solve the problem in the first place. It needs to be treated like alcohol/drug addiction.
 
Once you develop fat cells they never go away. You can successfully suck the fat out of them, but they will still be there and available. So it's really easy to store fat again once you've done it the first time.
 
Once you develop fat cells they never go away. You can successfully suck the fat out of them, but they will still be there and available. So it's really easy to store fat again once you've done it the first time.

Yeah, he covered that.
 
Once you develop fat cells they never go away. You can successfully suck the fat out of them, but they will still be there and available. So it's really easy to store fat again once you've done it the first time.
I'm not even sure if surgically removed the fat cells via liposuction will give you great chances of permanently losing the weight. I could be wrong but I think hormonal changes due to weight will remain.
 
Hm...

Well, in the first year of university i weighted 55 kilograms (120 pounds?)

Remained either very thin or thin until i was 27, then started gaining a lot of weight, and was roughly double (!!!) the 55, at 110 kilograms, five years ago. It took a great deal of resolve to start losing weight again, but eventually i did it a year later (end of 2012), and now am around 65 kilograms, which is thin for my height (1,71 metres). Average adult weight is 75 kilos i think. I could go back to 55, but that would be a bad idea as well. It is utterly doable, though.

So it can be done, yes. It won't be at all easy, though, so better not become overweight in the first place.
PS: what matters is getting your metabolism working.
 
You went from over 100 to 65kg? Nicely done man! Here's hoping you never re-gain it.
 
I won't. Went from 55 to 110 to 65, yes. Should be noted that i am not on a diet. It is just that my metabolism is healthy again. I walk for a reasonable distance, not each day, but a few KM overall each week :)
 
I disagree about fat cells never going away. They don't go away really quickly, which is why crash diets don't work, but if given enough time, they will go away.

I dropped 44 pounds [20 kg] from 232 [105 kg ]and kept it off for more than a year. I was thin at 188 [85 kg]. Then stress eating at work put it all back on, plus some. Once I retired, I slipped back down to 220 [100 kg]. Then 1 1/2 years ago, I got back onto portion control. I just weighed myself, and I'm at 202 [92 kg]. Not exactly thin, but no longer fat.

I suffer from having a sweet tooth and an aversion to exercise, and so weight will always be a problem for me.
 
They do not go away without surgical removal, this much is a known fact. Everything else here on my part is speculation (vis a vis hormones) but the fat cells do not go away. They shrink considerably when you lose weight but they don't die and get reabsorbed by your body.
 
It's kind of depressing that the immediate reaction to these studies here are a bunch of anecdotal arguments.

(Zkribbler: you aren't even remotely representative of the success stories. The meta-study uses five years as its benchmark.)
 
No it's not.

Your body is a pretty smart organism. It is not going to indefinitely tote around millions of cells that have no purpose.

Thing is they still have their purpose. A fat cell can store a whole bunch of fat, but it still serves its purpose if it is only storing a little bit of fat. Your body will keep all the fat cells it has, even if they are all only filled to 5% capacity. Even if it never needs all that excess capacity again your body has no reason to break up cells that are still working.
 
It's kind of depressing that the immediate reaction to these studies here are a bunch of anecdotal arguments.

Why? What did you expect? That a wide swath of CFC users would embark on a study of a tiny sliver of biology just because you posted a study?

Please don't take that as unkind, because it isn't meant to be. It's just intended to point out that interest in this topic is probably not really widespread. Generally I haven't seen a lot of evidence that biology is a major field of study for anyone here.
 
I'm curious what people here have to say about this (from a thread posted on the Cracked forums. Cursing is allowed there, so I'm not going to link to the thread itself. It's currently on the first page of this board.)





My thinking is that there might be a higher number of people successfully keeping off weight if they didn't universally believe that the right dosage of diet and exercise would solve the problem in the first place. It needs to be treated like alcohol/drug addiction.

Anorexia nervosa is far more dangerous
 
My thinking is that there might be a higher number of people successfully keeping off weight if they didn't universally believe that the right dosage of diet and exercise would solve the problem in the first place.

Well, it will. The actual steps needed to be taken are trivial. Humans are just weak-willed, other than a statistically insignificant number of us.

"Permanent" weight loss is really a weird metric anyway, it just means that those anomalous humans died before they got fat again.

Anorexia nervosa is far more dangerous

For an individual, yes. As a public health risk, it's not even close.
 
I'm curious what people here have to say about this (from a thread posted on the Cracked forums. Cursing is allowed there, so I'm not going to link to the thread itself. It's currently on the first page of this board.)





My thinking is that there might be a higher number of people successfully keeping off weight if they didn't universally believe that the right dosage of diet and exercise would solve the problem in the first place. It needs to be treated like alcohol/drug addiction.

Think more about it almost no one I know who tried to "diet" both understood that they needed permanent diet modification and actually stuck to it, because as it turns out if you return to your previous eating habits you generally return to your previous weight. That isn't necessarily the reason why permanent major weight loss is rare,, but I definitely believe it is a reason.
 
My thinking is that there might be a higher number of people successfully keeping off weight if they didn't universally believe that the right dosage of diet and exercise would solve the problem in the first place. It needs to be treated like alcohol/drug addiction.

my thinking is that if you change your life style you can keep weight from coming back, that dose not mean 'one day at a time', like AA or NA it means that you change your behaviour from what caused someone to become fat in the first place.

my dietician showed me what I was consuming and how to read labels (something I knew but did not follow much :D) and demonstrate how much sugar I consumed a day from drinks and foods with sugar cubes in a bowl :eek:.

I got down to my desired weight over the next year and it has stayed there without any effort since for about 3 years.
it would come back if I changed my life style again.

people put on weight because they eat the wrong foods, you don't need science studies to know this
 
Well, that just puts a damper for me losing weight.
 
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