Ask a Car Nut - Part Deux

[Formaldehyde]

I wouldn't call it common. But some foreign car owners do decide to go that route when faced with having to replace an engine that is in short supply in this country in a used form, or one that is far more expensive than this option new. Others buy these cars for peanuts from people who have decided to junk them instead of putting even more money into them.

This is the real issue with owning many foreign cars in this country which do not sell in quantity sufficient enough to have numerous dealers and qualified mechanics to work on them. There are only 12 Jaguar dealerships in the state of Florida, and half of them are in the Miami area. There are none at all in half the state including the panhandle. There are only 3 in Alabama. If you don't live in a larger city you have to either find some mechanic who has previous experience working with Jaguars, or you are forced to use someone who has likely never even seen the engine of one before. Their learning experience is likely going to be quite costly.

Replacing the engine with an American one solves much of this problem. But it typically introduces many more. Car manufacturers go to great lengths determining the proper weight balance, springs, shocks, and the size and strength of load bearing members and suspension components. If you use an engine that doesn't have essentially the same weight and center of gravity, you will be forced to change a lot of other stuff through trial and error. Or what is even more typical, you will simply ignore it and end up with a car that is far from optimal. It may even be quite unsafe, especially if the brakes are not upgraded to accommodate a far stronger engine than the original.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh I see. Thanks.

 

[Formaldehyde]

CHP goes to an SUV with a rear passenger compartment that can literally be hosed down.


Link to video.

Many of them also have license plate readers...

 

[danjuno]

Why does it seem that Ford is ripping all it's new designs off of Aston Martin? (i.e. 2015 Mustang, 2013 Fusion)

 

[bhsup]

Probably because it owned Aston Martin for many years and still has a stake in the company.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The similarities in design elements have not been missed by many.

Spoiler :

I suppose this video by Terry Box explains it as well as anybody else has:

VIDEO: Box Cars: 2013 Ford Fusion or Aston Martin?

VRCWAgent raises a good point. The odds of them being sued for doing so are fairly non-existent given their associations. And while the front grille is similar, it is not a copy of the characteristic Aston Martin design that dates back to the 1951 DB3.

 

[Cutlass]

Many automakers have borrowed style points from others in the past. Nothing new there.

 

[Formaldehyde]

They have to be careful though. Anything too overt is covered by copyright infringement.

Ford takes legal action against Chinese company over knockoff F-150





Even the Batmobile is protected:

Judge Declares Batmobile Is Subject to Copyright

 

[caketastydelish]

Even the Batmobile is protected:

Judge Declares Batmobile Is Subject to Copyright

I think this deserves its own thread.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Check out the electric Archimoto SRK. It seems a bit pricey at $17.5K. But it has some really nice features such as using a USB drive as a key. So if you want to let a friend borrow your vehicle, you can just email him the file:


Link to video.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The ultimate in car nut enthusiasm combined with audio and video technology. Brought to you by Honda.

Sound of Honda – Ayrton Senna’s Fastest F1 Lap (1989) in Light and Sound


Link to video.

With over 100 sensors and 6.5 billion data points delivered in real-time, today the F1 is as much as about predicting the future as it is about shaving milliseconds on the circuit. In 1989, Ayrton Senna set the world’s fastest lap during the F1 Japanese Grand Prix Qualifying. His driving data of that lap was recorded and collected through telemetry system, a technology introduced to F1 by Honda. This project, a collaboration between Dentsu, Honda Motor and Rhizomatiks brings back Senna’s engine sound from that lap 24 years ago in the form of an installation set on the original Suzuka circuit that uses light and sound.

The data from Senna’s fastest lap was found as a single sheet of paper stored deep down Honda’s R&D storehouse. Prior to this project, some parts of the data have once been disclosed in a book on F1 technology, but this is the very first time that the complete data of the whole lap was disclosed to the public.

On the paper, is a line chart showing the speed, engine rotation and accelerator. Based on this chart, a former race engineer for the Honda F1 team analysed Senna’s gear position and how it shifted. The data from this piece of paper was digitised by tracing it manually.

The engine sound of McLaren Honda MP4/5 was recorded by placing a light weighted small recorder with a long lasting battery onboard the properly assembled and maintained ready to work MP4/5 machine. The engine sound was also recorded by pointing a shotgun microphone at the MP4/5 machine while it raced through the circuit. Then, these recorded sounds were made in to a library using a Sampler on MOTU　Digital Performer so that the sounds can be precisely synthesised according to the telemetry data. Then, listening to the sound recorded during the race in 1989, it was compared with the synthesised sound to made further accurate adjustments.

The sound from each speaker is extremely short and only lasts a few hundred msec, so Funktion-One (RES5, RES4,F218,IB218) speakers that have an instantaneous force were mainly　used. As supplementary, Meyer　MSL-4　Line Array were used. To lower the latency of transmission, digital (light) channels were wrapped up from the booth and transmitted to transit points. Then they were converted to analog and output through the speakers. Using Max/MSP, the sound movement was controlled with numerous anomalously used IRCAM’s external object spat.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Don't know if this question belongs here but it's car related -


Are car dealers more willing to cut the sticker price of a car if the buy can pay cash/check? If a car costs, say $17k and you have $15k in cash, how likely would they be willing to sell you the car at $15k? Or will they try and make you finance the difference?

Thanks

 

[Borachio]

As I remember from rugbyLEAGUEfan (where's he gone?), the car dealers are really only interested in you taking out a finance deal. That's where they make the money, apparently.

So, I think the answer to your question is: they're very unlikely indeed to sell you it for cash at a discount.

But I guess it depends on the dealer and what their situation is.

I'd just concentrate on getting a good reliable motor, that's cheap and easy to both maintain and run.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

As I remember from rugbyLEAGUEfan (where's he gone?), the car dealers are really only interested in you taking out a finance deal. That's where they make the money, apparently.

So, I think the answer to your question is: they're very unlikely indeed to sell you it for cash at a discount.

But I guess it depends on the dealer and what their situation is.

I'd just concentrate on getting a good reliable motor, that's cheap and easy to both maintain and run.

Argh. I was kind of thinking this, but at the same time I thought of a corporate finance class that stressed cash in hand <<< later payments with interest (usually). Particularly in the case where the amount to be financed is so small that the amount of interest you would generate is not very much.

Then again, because of the short length of the pay-off time, I suppose trivial amount of interest is going to far outweigh the very tiny amount of depreciation on the principle. Crap, now I feel the need to pull out a textbook.

But then that's probably futile - I doubt they will cut me a deal no matter how I spin it financially.

rLf is MIA

 

[Formaldehyde]

That used to be the case. A cash deal was more attractive to the dealers because it meant a faster sale and less paperwork. Now a substantial amount of their profit comes from financing, as Borachio pointed out. And computers make it a no hassle and nearly instantaneous operation in many cases.

But you can play this game in reverse. Get the car financed with hopefully even a large rebate from the credit company for financing with them. Then pay it off immediately. Just make sure there is no penalty for paying it off early. The dealership may try to talk you into waiting 3 months, but that is because they typically don't get paid their fees for a couple of months.

If you want to get the best deal purchase a used car from an individual. Dealerships know quite accurately what a car is worth, and they are only interested in making a profit. Since individuals don't get any kickbacks from financing companies and are hoping to make a quick sale, they may very well take less money for a cash deal. Just make sure you at least get it checked out by a competent mechanic if you don't have the proper skills to do so. It is really cheap insurance.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh that's brilliant! Thanks a lot, I will look into that.

 

[Zelig]

Hey so I kind of work for a car dealership now (back office, so I'm not super familiar with sales tactics, but I've got a good idea of how the finances work).

Don't know if this question belongs here but it's car related -

Are car dealers more willing to cut the sticker price of a car if the buy can pay cash/check? If a car costs, say $17k and you have $15k in cash, how likely would they be willing to sell you the car at $15k? Or will they try and make you finance the difference?

Thanks

They'd never let you finance only $2k. $10k is about the least places around here will bother with. (And that's assuming you're buying a <$20k car, it would be kind of bizarre to put a $30k downpayment on a $40k car.)

Argh. I was kind of thinking this, but at the same time I thought of a corporate finance class that stressed cash in hand <<< later payments with interest (usually). Particularly in the case where the amount to be financed is so small that the amount of interest you would generate is not very much.

Dealerships often aren't financing themselves, they're just using third-party companies/banks who give the dealership kickbacks for customers, so it's always cash in hand for the dealer.

Also depends what types of financing you're looking at - manufacturer incentives will often come in the form of "pick one of a) $2500 cash off or b) 0% financing" where the end cost is essentially the same between the two.

If you want to get the best deal purchase a used car from an individual. Dealerships know quite accurately what a car is worth, and they are only interested in making a profit. Since individuals don't get any kickbacks from financing companies and are hoping to make a quick sale, they may very well take less money for a cash deal. Just make sure you at least get it checked out by a competent mechanic if you don't have the proper skills to do so. It is really cheap insurance.

Well dealerships are looking to maximize selling price, if they already own cars their cost is sunk and isn't relevant to the selling price. A lot of dealerships get a lot of their stock from trade ins for new vehicles which they way undervalue (in terms of purchase credit) so it's pretty much impossible for them not to profit on these anyway.

And get any car inspected by a mechanic. If you're buying from a dealership you'll often have to put down a deposit by this point, but insist that you get in writing that the deposit is to be fully refunded if you're not satisfied with the results of the inspection. In a lot of cases the inspection won't turn up any dealbreakers but they'll find some loose bits that you can try to use to lower the price some more.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Car dealerships typically have little, if any, incentive to sell cars for less than what they know they can eventually get. That is regardless of what they paid for them.

Of course there are exceptions. If they have a huge inventory or are short of operating capital they might be more willing to sell it for less than what they could normally get. The same hold true for last year's models when the new ones are announced. But under normal circumstances, you probably aren't going to be able to get as good a deal as you can with an individual seller.

The best alternative is to a find a lower mileage car which has been properly maintained. You can usually tell based on the condition of the vehicle and the receipts. But you should still get a mechanic to take a look at it in case the seller is getting rid of it because it has a major drive train problem. Or it has been involved in a major accident that doesn't show up on Carfax.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So we're only looking at new cars at this point so buying from an individual is unlikely. Though this may change and I'll keep your suggestions on that in mind Formaldehyde.

As for inspections - is that something you bring up when you are negotiating price? I just insist that I have an option to get it inspected with a right of refund if the inspection goes badly?

Is it unwise to get an inspection from a dealership that is also a franchise-licensed auto shop? For example, there is a Ford dealership in town that we take our car to when it needs work. If I were to buy a car from them, should I ask for an inspection at another shop?


Are there any tactics I can use to get the best price? Any way to get the dealership to come down from the sticker price? By the time we are ready to buy a car, we'll likely be able to meet the sticker price fully but I'm investigating my options and trying to figure out how to get them to lower the price. I've never bought a car before.

Thanks

 

[Formaldehyde]

You make the sale conditional on the car passing an inspection by a mechanic of your own choosing. No money changes hands until it is successfully completed. If they find anything wrong use it to negotiate a lower price.

Cars you purchase from a dealership are typically a different story unless they are marked "as is". Then you should get an independent mechanic to take a look at it and be sure to get a Carfax from the dealer.

I really have no experience negotiating with a dealer over a new car purchase. But you can get a fairly accurate idea what it should sell for by getting bids on the internet. If you don't think a particular dealer is giving you a competitive price, check with others for the exact same model. But keep in mind that you are also buying convenience. You are going to have to bring it to that dealer for warranty repairs for the most part, so one 50 miles away is probably going to be less attractive than a nearby one.

It also depends on which car you are purchasing. If the vendor has back orders for that model you can pretty well forget about getting any sort of discount. You may very well have to pay a premium.

If you do decide to get a new car, you should try to find a RugbyLeagueFan who will consider you to be a long term client who wants your repeat business. Then it is in their best interests to assure that not only do you get a good price, but that you also get the proper treatment in the service department as well.

I know you were burned once before with a used car purchase that went quite bad. But you can buy a lot more car used than you can new. Let me know what new cars you are looking at and I'll find some used cars that you should consider.