Ask A Catholic II

[Ajidica]

Does God approve of the Bishop of Rome acting under a false document to claim temporal power?

 

[Jehoshua]

How am I to know what God approves of. Either way the donation of Constantine is widely acknowledged to be a fraudulent document of the 9th century

However the Papal States and the de jure (as opposed to de-facto) sovereignty of the holy see was actually established via a donation of land under the lombard king pepin the short. This donation and the area under papal sovereignty was further codified by Charlemagne who in addition to the duchy of Rome granted to the papal states, ravenna, the pentapolis, parts of tuscany, benevento, corsica and lombardy and various other cities in Italy.

Irrespective the popes aren't perfect and are perfectly capable of immoral and otherwise unsrupulous behaviour as seen through such individuals as Alexander VI.

 

[Takhisis]

Ajidica, if we go far enough there was foul play, illegal by the standards of the time (such as engaging British troops in combat, etc. etc.) involved in the creation of all present-day 'national' states.

 

[JollyRoger]

Would the Catholic Church be for or against the California proposal that would require condoms be used by performers in the state's pornography industry?

 

[GhostWriter16]

Can someone please answer my question about Augustine?

Augustine taught exclusivism (Basically, if you weren't Catholic Christian, no matter the reason, you were condemned, even if you had never heard.)

The modern Catholic Church teaches that non-Christians and non-Catholic Christians can be saved, just that the Catholic Church is the best means for Salvation and basically the only one that's 100% guaranteed to get you there (Correct me if this is off.)

As far as I know, the Catholic beliefs on Salvation is a dogma (Again, correct me if I am wrong) and so Catholics must believe it.

So; how did Augustine get it wrong?

Basically, Augustine taught a more restrictive doctrine on Salvation than the Catholic Church does now (Which allows some possibility of non-Catholics being saved.) How did Augustine get it wrong? Was the teaching on Salvation not yet released?

 

[Perfection]

Do I have a soul? If so where is it and what does it do?

 

[Leoreth]

The object to which you are referring is a myth and never existed.

Um, no? It's in the Louvre.

See, I know "Pope Joan" and the associated ritual of verifying a new Pope's gender is a myth, but the actual chair existed. As did, unless my sources are incorrect, the tradition of new Pope sitting on it at least until the end of the Middle Ages.


Another question: I've recently heard the Church tried to stop the Maltese government from allowing divorces. Why? Isn't their legal status meaningless in the eyes of God anyway?

 

[civ_king]

Can someone please answer my question about Augustine?



Basically, Augustine taught a more restrictive doctrine on Salvation than the Catholic Church does now (Which allows some possibility of non-Catholics being saved.) How did Augustine get it wrong? Was the teaching on Salvation not yet released?

I have trouble explaining it, but Augustine taught that one is saved through the Catholic Church which isn't necessarily in contradiction with what the Church teaches

Um, no? It's in the Louvre.

See, I know "Pope Joan" and the associated ritual of verifying a new Pope's gender is a myth, but the actual chair existed. As did, unless my sources are incorrect, the tradition of new Pope sitting on it at least until the end of the Middle Ages.


Another question: I've recently heard the Church tried to stop the Maltese government from allowing divorces. Why? Isn't their legal status meaningless in the eyes of God anyway?

I can't actually find any reference to the sella stercoraria except in conjunction with "Pope Joan"

 

[GhostWriter16]

I have trouble explaining it, but Augustine taught that one is saved through the Catholic Church which isn't necessarily in contradiction with what the Church teaches

Well, unless Plotinus is wrong, Augustine taught that Salvation is ONLY found within the Church. On the other hand, Vatican II teaches that Salvation is mainly through the Church, but can occur outside the Church as well. I'm just curious as to why the difference is there. Is the fact that Salvation can occur outside the RCC a disputed fact in Catholicism? Was the teaching simply not explained at the point of time when Augustine lived? Is there a different reason?

 

[civ_king]

Well, unless Plotinus is wrong, Augustine taught that Salvation is ONLY found within the Church. On the other hand, Vatican II teaches that Salvation is mainly through the Church, but can occur outside the Church as well. I'm just curious as to why the difference is there. Is the fact that Salvation can occur outside the RCC a disputed fact in Catholicism? Was the teaching simply not explained at the point of time when Augustine lived? Is there a different reason?

"Augustine taught that Salvation is ONLY found within the Church" Correct
"Vatican II teaches that Salvation is mainly through the Church, but can occur outside the Church as well" Correct
They are using it in two different senses, the former as an intangible thing, the latter as a tangible thing (AFAIK)

Like I said I'm not sure how to explain it

 

[GhostWriter16]

"Augustine taught that Salvation is ONLY found within the Church" Correct
"Vatican II teaches that Salvation is mainly through the Church, but can occur outside the Church as well" Correct
They are using it in two different senses, the former as an intangible thing, the latter as a tangible thing (AFAIK)

Like I said I'm not sure how to explain it

So, let me see if I'm following. The Church is the only source of Salvation, but it can occur outside of a Catholic church (Lowercase.)

So basically, if someone would have believed Catholicism if they knew all the facts, but is ignorant, is saved?

If so, I understand what you are saying.

That said, I'm fairly certain Augustine did not teach this. Augustine taught that, no matter what, you were damned if not baptized as a Catholic. He is even recorded as saying that it is not unjust that those who have never heard the gospel to be damned, because they deserved Hell anyway, so they are simply getting what they deserve.

So why are the doctrines different?

 

[Arakhor]

You missed the bit where someone said that saints can be wrong and that St Augustine was hardly the last word in Catholic doctrine.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You missed the bit where someone said that saints can be wrong and that St Augustine was hardly the last word in Catholic doctrine.

You are missing my point. I know Catholics think that Vatican II is right. What I don't get is HOW Augustine made the mistake. I mean, he had access to the various statements of faith of Catholicism didn't he?

 

[civ_king]

You are missing my point. I know Catholics think that Vatican II is right. What I don't get is HOW Augustine made the mistake. I mean, he had access to the various statements of faith of Catholicism didn't he?

He didn't necessarily have all the information

 

[timtofly]

You are missing my point. I know Catholics think that Vatican II is right. What I don't get is HOW Augustine made the mistake. I mean, he had access to the various statements of faith of Catholicism didn't he?

Since I have been excommunicated, my parting words will be. The Truth is out there. But.......

 

[GhostWriter16]

He didn't necessarily have all the information

OK, thank you. Why could you not simply have said this in the first place?

Since I have been excommunicated, my parting words will be. The Truth is out there. But.......

Well, obviously that question only really applied to Vatican II Catholics. People who are "Catholic" in the sense of simply "Christian" wouldn't really apply there.

 

[Leoreth]

I can't actually find any reference to the sella stercoraria except in conjunction with "Pope Joan"

That's hardly a surprise given the internet's love for that kind of conspiracy theory.

 

[civ_king]

That's hardly a surprise given the internet's love for that kind of conspiracy theory.

I can't even find evidence of the Louvre having it

 

[Takhisis]

Would the Catholic Church be for or against the California proposal that would require condoms be used by performers in the state's pornography industry?

I suppose that the Church is officially against pornography itself to begin with.

Do I have a soul? If so where is it and what does it do?

You have a soul, everyone does, and it's a part of the human person, but a non-corporeal part.

Knowing you, Perf, you'rve probably sold it off to some random stranger .

 

[Jehoshua]

Um, no? It's in the Louvre.

See, I know "Pope Joan" and the associated ritual of verifying a new Pope's gender is a myth, but the actual chair existed. As did, unless my sources are incorrect, the tradition of new Pope sitting on it at least until the end of the Middle Ages.


Another question: I've recently heard the Church tried to stop the Maltese government from allowing divorces. Why? Isn't their legal status meaningless in the eyes of God anyway?

The popes did have chairs with holes in them that is true. But the item in the sense you were calling it never existed. The chairs with holes in them were former imperial chairs of the roman empire and were used when the popes claimed temporal power in italy.

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Divorce is a sacrilege because it violates the sacrament of marriage. It also is damaging to society generally. Malta is a catholic country and thus the Church worked to prevent this social evil from entering into that country and a) perhaps leading people into sacilegious separation from matrimony b) prevent a social ill from entering maltese society.

I havent checked if the referendum permitted it (I hope it didn;t) but I know it was neck and neck last time I checked.