Great, I am doomed to hell just because I judged harshly on Fundamentalist Christians . The Path is just too narrow and I doubt that I would even make it .
I am supprised after all the nasty things that I have said about Fundamentalist Christianity you came up to help. I feel so dirty and ashamed for doing thoes things that I just want to apologise to you and MobBoss for the bad things I have said . I do would like to take back the nasty things I have said (However I am afraid that people would judge me as a flip-flopper after realizing that I was in the wrong)
Know I know how St Paul (Saul) felt when he was on the Road to Damasasus (Spelling, I could only spell it out phoneticly)
Thank you. Don't think about it again. We just want to help you. We don't mean to bash you on the head, but we do, so we need to apologize to you as well. Your passion is a truly wonderful trait. Don't worry. You will settle in fine. The Lord is your shepherd. He will keep you. He will lead you beside the still waters. He will restore your soul. He will lead you in that path of righteousness... your cup runneth over. Though you walk through the valley of the shadow of death, you need fear no evil. His rod and staff should comfort you. You will dwell in the House of the Lord forever!
Rejoice in the Lord, you are more than a conqueror! Nothing shall separate you from the love that is yours in Christ Jesus, our Lord! You are fine!
We love you! If there is anything you need, please PM me anytime.
CivGeneral: The Lord bless thee, and keep thee, and make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee, The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee and give thee peace!
Of the Christians here who read the 'hard to interpret' Scriptures (where the 'actual meaning' is not the same as the 'natural reading'), who believes that a major component of correctly interpreting these Scripture involves prayer?
In other words, who believes that faithful/sincere prayer adds insight into correctly understanding Scripture? As well, what is your theory as to why two Christians can pray for insight with regards to Scripture and receive directly-conflicting answers? If your opinion on any reading is in the minority, why do you assume that your opinion is correct?
I ask them to clarify, and usually I point out holes in their own thinking. This is somewhat tangential to the thread, but I can prove -1 = 1 with basic maths. It's wrong, of course, but you usually don't learn that it's wrong until you take advanced math. Then I explain that I spend a good deal of time observing thoughts (partly since I have AS) and I don't think I'm brainwashed.
It's always the shortest questions that have the longest answers, just like "Why is the sky blue?" requires stuff like refraction to understand properly. So this may get long or be cut short...
First, the little Bible (John 3:16) says that whoever believes in Christ shall have eternal life.
So the core of Christianity is that if you believe God sent Jesus the Christ to die for you, and you accept this sacrifice, you're a Christian.
Then there are several of what I call "needful unecessary" things, which aren't requirements, but which should come from being a Christian.
Prayer. While there is no distinct requirement to pray, it should come naturally to you if you believe in a personal God who cares about you. Jesus taught the disciples the Lord's Prayer, but he also rebuked the Pharisees because they prayed for the sake of being "praying men".
Works. Salvation is by faith not works, and if you are unable to do works it will not be held against you. However, there is an obligation to do good works, and a lack of works usually indicates a lack of faith.
Church. While one's relationship with God is a personal thing that doesn't need mediators, all Christians should come together to counsel and rebuke one another, to keep one another strong in the faith, to do works together which none could accomplish alone.
Reading the Bible, especially the New Testament, even more importantly the Gospels. Learning more about the life and actions of Jesus, and his instructions to his followers, helps a Christian to understand how they should live their life and how the person whose example they are following acted.
A Christian should expect to be doing these things, while recognizing that they are "fruits" that don't make a Christian in themselves. An analogy might be that putting your plates in the dishwasher won't make your stomach think it's had a meal, but if you eat regularly, you can expect to put plates in the dishwasher.
I think I'll leave it at that for now, and you can ask further questions.
By praying, either for communing - when you pray for the reason of talking to God - or for action - when you pray that God will intervene. (These don't need to be separate. Probably shouldn't be, in fact.)
Specifically, because my commands over e.g. weather have only been obeyed when I give them in Jesus' name, not when I snap my fingers and sing "Rain, rain, go away".
And another question (to any answerer). Do you believe that one can be a true Christian (by whichever definition of a true Christian you use) if they dislike the church as an organization?
Wisdom of Solomon can be read (read: quotemined ) to support evolution, which is probably the extent to which you care. More seriously, they seem off-topic and gnostic. Taking Sirach (Ben Sira) for an example, the first chapter personifies wisdom a great deal...
14 The love of God is honorable Wisdom.
15 And they to whom she shall show herself love her by the sight, and by the knowledge of her great works.
Consider this thought experiment: If you were instead born in the Middle East into a Muslim household, what belief(s)/religion(s), if any, would you project yourself to hold at this time?
Assuming I weren't executed or damaged for unfortunate side-effects of Asperger Syndrome, probably none. I suppose I'd appear to be practising Islam to avoid ramifications, but I'd want out of the Middle East.
To start, "Genesis-Exodus-Leviticus-Numbers-Deuteronomy" is stuck in my head quite permanently. (From classes at a nonreligious school, for the record.) Then the OT, as I recall, goes through several books of history, some books of oddity (Job, Psalms, Song of Songs), then to minor prophets. NT is more or less the 4½ Gospels (Acts is Luke II), letters from lots of people, mostly Paul, and ends with the Apocalypse of John, sometimes called Revelations. (Feel free to compare this to the actual order and point out what's wrong.)
Of the Christians here who read the 'hard to interpret' Scriptures (where the 'actual meaning' is not the same as the 'natural reading'), who believes that a major component of correctly interpreting these Scripture involves prayer?
In other words, who believes that faithful/sincere prayer adds insight into correctly understanding Scripture? As well, what is your theory as to why two Christians can pray for insight with regards to Scripture and receive directly-conflicting answers? If your opinion on any reading is in the minority, why do you assume that your opinion is correct?
1. Me again, unless I misunderstand the question.
2. I haven't thought about that. The boring explanation is that they're colored by personal prejudices and the dangerous (in the sense that it should not be used if you're uncertain) explanation is that Satan is deceiving one of them, and there's probably some other stuff involved, too.
3. I try not to assume that my recently formed opinions are correct. Of course, I should neverassume that I'm correct, but instead justify it where possible. But I'm lazy (who isn't?) , and so I instead try to divert my laziness into not forming strong opinions during the early phase of something, which means that I seldom get into arguments over new things, but instead wait until more discussion and data has arrived.
Great, I am doomed to hell just because I judged harshly on Fundamentalist Christians . The Path is just too narrow and I doubt that I would even make it .
What I been told before is that even if you believe that you are still not a true Christian, unless you completely surrender your free will to him, believe everything in the bible literally, tell everyone that everything other form of religion and spirituality is nonsense that goes against Him, absolutely everything that anyone does that's against what's said is sin, and even then you're not saved because it's all pre-destination.
Obscurely true; one of the expected fruits of being a Christian is that you "surrender" your will to Jesus, in the sense that you follow Him and act like Him to whatever extent you can. Of course, this has to be your own choice - constantly.
That starts being a problem at verses like Deut 32:33, "Their wine is the poison of dragons" (wait, what dragons?), or Isaiah 11:8, "the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den" (cockatrices also being fairly mythical beings), the repeated use of "For three *, yes, for four" (what, those numbers are equal?) to mean "many", and ends up being a problem for most of the Bible, not to mention the little thing called "translation".
Other religions are generally false, but this is a complex subject, and I suggest you read Acts 17:22 onwards for an account of something similar, because I don't know enough to give a better answer yet.
"Large enough" is the only answer I find suitable. If you want an exact size, you can read Revelations 21 literally and conclude that it's twelve thousand by twelve thousand [some measurement] large and twelve times twelve [some other unit] high. I personally think that this has the same metaphorical meaning as our "thousands and thousands", rather than being an exact size.
Jesus comments on this in John 14:2, and I'll quote multiple translations:
"In my Father's house there are many rooms"
"There is plenty of room for you in my Father's home."
"There is more than enough room in my Fathers home."
Its all about context and translation viz...something you apparently dont comprehend.
If one looks up the root word in hebrew you will find that it is 'tsepha' which translates to mean a 'hissing, or venomous serpent'. The word itself means to 'extrude' thus the picture it is attempting to describe would be of a hissing serpent with its tongue out. http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?strongs=06848
I everyone always says this basic thing... a feeling of truth, assurance, some say peace.
That doesn't really describe the specific emotion.
1) When you get an answer to prayer, it is like how you feel when you play a board game and you are asked a question, like in Trivial Pursuit, and you are searching in your head for the answer and then boom! All the sudden the thought pops up: "Oh yeah! Topeka! The capital of Kansas is Topeka!" You so relieved it came in your head, you think hurray!
2) Or maybe an even better description: You get test results back after it is corrected. You look through the answers and see which were right and compare them to yours. You see you answered (B) and the answer was (C), and you think, "Of course! How could I have not gotten that wrong? I've always known that!" You read the question again and can see that it is because you miscomprehended the question. So, you wonder "What was I thinking!"
#2 is a bit better description because usually you make a mistake in your thinking, then wonder how on earth things screwed up! You'll never answer that question wrong again, that is for sure.
It's always the shortest questions that have the longest answers, just like "Why is the sky blue?" requires stuff like refraction to understand properly. So this may get long or be cut short...
First, the little Bible (John 3:16) says that whoever believes in Christ shall have eternal life.
So the core of Christianity is that if you believe God sent Jesus the Christ to die for you, and you accept this sacrifice, you're a Christian.
Then there are several of what I call "needful unecessary" things, which aren't requirements, but which should come from being a Christian.
Prayer. While there is no distinct requirement to pray, it should come naturally to you if you believe in a personal God who cares about you. Jesus taught the disciples the Lord's Prayer, but he also rebuked the Pharisees because they prayed for the sake of being "praying men".
Works. Salvation is by faith not works, and if you are unable to do works it will not be held against you. However, there is an obligation to do good works, and a lack of works usually indicates a lack of faith.
Church. While one's relationship with God is a personal thing that doesn't need mediators, all Christians should come together to counsel and rebuke one another, to keep one another strong in the faith, to do works together which none could accomplish alone.
Reading the Bible, especially the New Testament, even more importantly the Gospels. Learning more about the life and actions of Jesus, and his instructions to his followers, helps a Christian to understand how they should live their life and how the person whose example they are following acted.
A Christian should expect to be doing these things, while recognizing that they are "fruits" that don't make a Christian in themselves. An analogy might be that putting your plates in the dishwasher won't make your stomach think it's had a meal, but if you eat regularly, you can expect to put plates in the dishwasher.
Erik is really quoting the EVIDENCES that one is a Christian.
It is not really.... say, I just read that last paragraph, I missed it before. Wow, that is really a good analogy. I like that about the dishwasher. That is cool.
Anyhoo... they are not what "makes" a Christian. Because you can fight God and be in a place of rebellion and be a Christian, it is really only a phase, though. That is called backslidden. God is rather letting you wonder off, and go it alone, but you will be reeled back in eventually. No sense in fight it. I've been there, done that.
Of the Christians here who read the 'hard to interpret' Scriptures (where the 'actual meaning' is not the same as the 'natural reading'), who believes that a major component of correctly interpreting these Scripture involves prayer?
In other words, who believes that faithful/sincere prayer adds insight into correctly understanding Scripture? As well, what is your theory as to why two Christians can pray for insight with regards to Scripture and receive directly-conflicting answers? If your opinion on any reading is in the minority, why do you assume that your opinion is correct?
I wanted to answer this and I thought, I want to find a good example of this, how people do this , where there is a "natural" reading and an "actual meaning".
Remember, I have answered this theoretically many times.
There are two kinds of ways to read the Bible:
1) Bible study - what you are calling "actual meaning"
2) Devotional - what you are calling "natural meaning"
Actual meaning, you learn by comparing historical data, use Hebrew and Greek, see, Mobboss did this in the serpent and cockatail verse above.
I am going to use the whole chapter to show what I mean. Here it is :
Spoiler:
Jeremiah 8
1 " 'At that time, declares the LORD, the bones of the kings and officials of Judah, the bones of the priests and prophets, and the bones of the people of Jerusalem will be removed from their graves. 2 They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will not be gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground. 3 Wherever I banish them, all the survivors of this evil nation will prefer death to life, declares the LORD Almighty.'
Sin and Punishment
4 "Say to them, 'This is what the LORD says:
" 'When men fall down, do they not get up?
When a man turns away, does he not return?
5 Why then have these people turned away?
Why does Jerusalem always turn away?
They cling to deceit;
they refuse to return.
6 I have listened attentively,
but they do not say what is right.
No one repents of his wickedness,
saying, "What have I done?"
Each pursues his own course
like a horse charging into battle.
7 Even the stork in the sky
knows her appointed seasons,
and the dove, the swift and the thrush
observe the time of their migration.
But my people do not know
the requirements of the LORD.
8 " 'How can you say, "We are wise,
for we have the law of the LORD,"
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
9 The wise will be put to shame;
they will be dismayed and trapped.
Since they have rejected the word of the LORD,
what kind of wisdom do they have?
10 Therefore I will give their wives to other men
and their fields to new owners.
From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
11 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
"Peace, peace," they say,
when there is no peace.
12 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when they are punished,
says the LORD.
13 " 'I will take away their harvest,
declares the LORD.
There will be no grapes on the vine.
There will be no figs on the tree,
and their leaves will wither.
What I have given them
will be taken from them. ' "
14 "Why are we sitting here?
Gather together!
Let us flee to the fortified cities
and perish there!
For the LORD our God has doomed us to perish
and given us poisoned water to drink,
because we have sinned against him.
15 We hoped for peace
but no good has come,
for a time of healing
but there was only terror.
16 The snorting of the enemy's horses
is heard from Dan;
at the neighing of their stallions
the whole land trembles.
They have come to devour
the land and everything in it,
the city and all who live there."
17 "See, I will send venomous snakes among you,
vipers that cannot be charmed,
and they will bite you,"
declares the LORD.
18 O my Comforter in sorrow,
my heart is faint within me.
19 Listen to the cry of my people
from a land far away:
"Is the LORD not in Zion?
Is her King no longer there?"
"Why have they provoked me to anger with their images,
with their worthless foreign idols?"
20 "The harvest is past,
the summer has ended,
and we are not saved."
21 Since my people are crushed, I am crushed;
I mourn, and horror grips me.
22 Is there no balm in Gilead?
Is there no physician there?
Why then is there no healing
for the wound of my people?
This is an "actual event", something that happened in the history of Israel.
The lessons of this chapter are very appropriate for today.
Basic synopsis:
1) Jeremiah 1-7 and also Kings show what Israel was doing that God was so pissed off about. Israel was supposed to be a country of those people separate from the 'world' and following God. They were to not adopt the ways of the world.
2) They adopted the ways of the world, specifically trusting in astrology, in pagan gods, doing detestable practices of those gods, like sacrificing their children, to fire, temple prostitution, and breaking the law God gave them as a country's civil code.
3) They thought they could ignore God's rules and carry on no matter what they did because they had the Temple, the Law, and therefore 'owned God'. The priests said, "Peace in our time!", when there was no peace coming and never will be if you break covenant. They would pervert the
Word of God to suit their purposes and to do things they know were wrong.
4) God keeps tapping at their shoulder, warning them but they refuse to listen. They are killing and murdering the prophets that come to warn, and reward the priests of the other gods they are worshipping, and following what astrologers and the psychics of their time were telling them to do.
5) God says He is going to bring disaster because they won't listen. He told them over and over and it was in their law that if they didn't follow that civil code, they will be not be blessed, but cursed.
6) God is very, very bummed out about this! "Why? Why does Jerusalem always turn away?"
Now that is the actual meaning. Then there is the 'natural' meaning.
God has given us certain boundaries, and we are given Israel as an example. It would behoove us to listen to their mistakes and be sure we don't do them also. Are we trusting God for our answers? Are we following astrology? Predictors that we aren't to follow? Where is our faith? Who will we call when the chips are down? If you have to make a choice, who will be your guide? What is your lodestone?
Christians have their own covenant with God, are we keeping faithful to it? Do we wonder off and deceive one another with perverting the Bible?
=========
How we go astray is when we use devotional reading as Bible study. Teachers 'read into' a passage like this - compare it with a Christian walk. Since everything that happened in the Old Testament is a shadow of what happens in the New Testament, you have an ability to go back to the Old Testament and create scenarios of different Old Testament events and then project them into something going on today.
For instance, the snakes God "will send among you. Vipers that cannot be charmed and they will bite you."
It is obvious there were never snakes actually sent to the people, biting them. This is a metaphor. So we conjure up what this means. Probably people will come in and be in your inner circle that will do some harm to your life. Like an insincere girlfriend, or a nasty teacher, or an adviser that gives you bad advice. Watch out for the 'little foxes' type thing.
Mistakes can be made when you mishandle the analogy. This is done often. Like in faith healing or prosperity messages.
It dosn't necessarily follow that if you follow God as a Christian, that your life will be hunky dory. First of all, because sin is in the world and mankind has free will and so can screw up just about anything, and you will be affected by that. Second of all, God allow bad stuff to happen so that we will be better people, able to help those who are in pain. So we can be better counsellors to others, we will go through some bad times. Thirdly, just because God is sovereign and works in others' lives, it may not be possible to keep everyone so isolated that what goes on is in interconnected. If something bad happens because God is disciplining my husband, it will happen to me too. We are interconnected.
This isn't really misapplying the scripture, but sometimes we don't hear the "Now maybe this doesn't apply to you..." and it only applies to the guy sitting next to you. It isn't "hard to interpret" you are just not in a place to get it.
Sometimes it does, and it is like how I described receiving the answers to the questions you got wrong, you think, "Oh man! How could I have missed that? I know that!" Then you know right away that you were meant to be there to hear what is being said.
That's actually a myth, these ideas that the soul weighs something have grown in the telling, usually any iregularity in body weight is due to water/gas loss, natural decay processes and incorrect measurements. When taken into account you'll find most consistently that the soul is weightless, which explains why it has a tendancy to rise. Of course if your a frisbeeterian, then you believe it rises to the roof and their it remains resisting attempts to get it down.
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. The Path is just too narrow and I doubt that I would even make it 
.
(See: Clarke's Third Law.)
More seriously, they seem off-topic and gnostic. Taking Sirach (Ben Sira) for an example, the first chapter personifies wisdom a great deal...
.
Of course if your a frisbeeterian, then you believe it rises to the roof and their it remains resisting attempts to get it down.
