Ask an Israeli

[Kyriakos]

To clarify something:

You asked what European countries I believe to be anti Israeli and pro Israeli. I don't think any European country except Russia is anti Israeli, but Sweden is the closest. When i said they were anti Israeli, i meant considering the position of other European countries, not in general.

How many euro countries are anti-Lebanon?
or anti-Bhutan
etc

It is not like the issue is the country, but the violence it perpetuates. Other than that it is not rational to think whole countries/majorities would bother to be pro or anti.

 

[Tahuti]

To clarify something:

You asked what European countries I believe to be anti Israeli and pro Israeli. I don't think any European country except Russia is anti Israeli, but Sweden is the closest. When i said they were anti Israeli, i meant considering the position of other European countries, not in general.

Russia isn't that Anti-Israel.

They may support Iran, but that's more directed towards the US than Israel. Dimitry Medvedev reaffirmed the recognition of Palestine, though he is a mere figurehead that can project a positive image of Russia among Israel's enemies. RT is fairly Anti-Israel though that's more to attract the niche of conspiracy theorists who usually are Anti-Zionist for viewing rates, and is hardly a cross-section of Russian foreign policy.

In fact, Russia and Israel get along fairly well when it comes to killing Sunni terrorists. Russia also buys plenty of Israeli stuff and allowed Israel to launch a satellite from its soil. Simply getting along with enemies doesn't make the one an enemy as well. Otherwise, you might just as well consider the US an enemy for being allied to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Natan35]

Russia isn't that Anti-Israel.

They may support Iran, but that's more directed towards the US than Israel. Dimitry Medvedev reaffirmed the recognition of Palestine, though he is a mere figurehead that can project a positive image of Russia among Israel's enemies. RT is fairly Anti-Israel though that's more to attract the niche of conspiracy theorists who usually are Anti-Zionist for viewing rates, and is hardly a cross-section of Russian foreign policy.

In fact, Russia and Israel get along fairly well when it comes to killing Sunni terrorists. Russia also buys plenty of Israeli stuff and allowed Israel to launch a satellite from its soil. Simply getting along with enemies doesn't make the one an enemy as well. Otherwise, you might just as well consider the US an enemy for being allied to Saudi Arabia.

I know the facts. Yet, in my opinion, they are anti Israel.

 

[LoneRebel]

Russia isn't that Anti-Israel.

They may support Iran, but that's more directed towards the US than Israel. Dimitry Medvedev reaffirmed the recognition of Palestine, though he is a mere figurehead that can project a positive image of Russia among Israel's enemies. RT is fairly Anti-Israel though that's more to attract the niche of conspiracy theorists who usually are Anti-Zionist for viewing rates, and is hardly a cross-section of Russian foreign policy.

In fact, Russia and Israel get along fairly well when it comes to killing Sunni terrorists. Russia also buys plenty of Israeli stuff and allowed Israel to launch a satellite from its soil. Simply getting along with enemies doesn't make the one an enemy as well. Otherwise, you might just as well consider the US an enemy for being allied to Saudi Arabia.

But if RT is anti-Israel isn't that pretty significant? RT is hardly a lunatic fringe news source in Russia. (Although in the rest of the world, it might be. )

 

[Tahuti]

I know the facts. Yet, in my opinion, they are anti Israel.

What informs that opinion?

But if RT is anti-Israel isn't that pretty significant? RT is hardly a lunatic fringe news source in Russia.

Like any other news channel, RT wants to appeal to a certain audience abroad. If I am not mistaken, the Russian-language RT is hardly interested in Middle-Eastern politics, let alone bashing Israel. The English version is a different story, they need to attract an audience that the other media can't get (often those that describe the CNN as Illuminati conspiracies and that kind of stuff). Israelis and those supportive of Israel are unlikely to view anything that views the USA in a bad daylight so the RT is hires Israel bashers and conspiracy theorists to squeeze out the niche audiences Western mainstream media cannot get.

Which has the side effect that Israelis perceive Russia as anti-Israel - which is inconsequential, since they likely won't watch RT anyway - and full-time Putin bashers as Russia being a country that harbours some bizarre intellectual sentiments - idem dito. However, ultimately, nothing that is remotely related to Russia is of sincere interest to the upper editors of RT. It is about the view rates and augmenting international support for Russia from whatever source possible. The fact is that both Western and Russian media downplay the Russian-Israeli partnership that does in fact exist, since would present troubles to the typical West vs. Russia narrative.

 

[Angst]

Can I convert to Judaism to become a "true" Jew or do you feel you have to inherit it somehow?

What's the view of your personal family?

How do you gather the Israeli state generally think of converting to Judaism?

Can I convert and migrate to Israel and be treated as an equal citizen?

 

[Mouthwash]

Can I convert to Judaism to become a "true" Jew or do you feel you have to inherit it somehow?

Can I convert and migrate to Israel and be treated as an equal citizen?

Where are you getting these ideas? Any amount of knowledge in Judaism- such as could be gained from reading its Wikipedia page- would clear both of these questions up.

I think the answer is that you're not really interested in knowing, you are interested in provoking the OP with nonsense about Israeli racism.

Feel free to correct me.

 

[Tahuti]

Can I convert to Judaism to become a "true" Jew or do you feel you have to inherit it somehow?

Can I convert and migrate to Israel and be treated as an equal citizen?

I am not formally qualified to answer these, but I guess Jewish descent is close enough.

In both cases, the answers are yes. However, actively practising another religion lapses the Jewishness of any Jew - and this has consequences for being able to migrate to Israel as well - though by dropping that, one can become viewed as a Jew again - whether a convert or a born Jew.

However, Reform Judaism views Judaism as purely a religion and ceasing to practise Judaism renders you a Non-Jew, whereas Orthodox Judaism views conversion to Judaism as becoming part of the Jewish ethnicity and thus permanent - though being Muslim or Christian renders your Jewishness dormant until you quit. However, Israel formally only Orthodox Judaism. When a religion isn't recognised in Israel, it doesn't mean it is persecuted but rather, is akin to being formally non-religious: You can migrate to Israel if you are Reform Jewish religiously and Jewish ethnically, but converts to Reform Judaism cannot, whereas converts to Orthodox Judaism can migrate to Israel as Jews, even if they become atheist, for example.

Generally, if you are of Jewish descent and want to be viewed as Jewish, it is better to be an atheist or a member of a religion that is not recognised in Israel, than being member of a religion that is recognised in Israel (other than Orthodox Judaism), such as Christianity or Islam.

I think the answer is that you're not really interested in knowing, you are interested in provoking the OP with nonsense about Israeli racism.

Angst is one of the most considerate posters on CFC about Israel. I have never seen him making a vitriolic comment or anything and on the contrary, he actually demonstrated understanding about Israel's situation.

 

[Mouthwash]

Angst is one of the most considerate posters on CFC about Israel. I have never seen him making a vitriolic comment or anything and on the contrary, he actually demonstrated understanding about Israel's situation.

I don't know him. I just found his questions a bit odd.

 

[ori]

I am not formally qualified to answer these, but I guess Jewish descent is close enough.

In both cases, the answers are yes. However, actively practising another religion lapses the Jewishness of any Jew - and this has consequences for being able to migrate to Israel as well - though by dropping that, one can become viewed as a Jew again - whether a convert or a born Jew.

However, Reform Judaism views Judaism as purely a religion and ceasing to practise Judaism renders you a Non-Jew, whereas Orthodox Judaism views conversion to Judaism as becoming part of the Jewish ethnicity and thus permanent - though being Muslim or Christian renders your Jewishness dormant until you quit. However, Israel formally only Orthodox Judaism. When a religion isn't recognised in Israel, it doesn't mean it is persecuted but rather, is akin to being formally non-religious: You can migrate to Israel if you are Reform Jewish religiously and Jewish ethnically, but converts to Reform Judaism cannot, whereas converts to Orthodox Judaism can migrate to Israel as Jews, even if they become atheist, for example.

Generally, if you are of Jewish descent and want to be viewed as Jewish, it is better to be an atheist or a member of a religion that is not recognised in Israel, than being member of a religion that is recognised in Israel (other than Orthodox Judaism), such as Christianity or Islam.

this probably should go into a judaism thread more than an Israel thread, but still:
Some aspects are incorrect:
1) Israel does recognize (as per a Supreme Court decision) any conversion presided over by a recognized authority (and this includes Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative conversions) for the purposes of the Law of Return - things get dicey for civil matters as marriage and assorted other things are presided over by the Chief Rabbinate which is orthodox and flat out does not recognize Conservatives and regards the Reform and Reconstructionist movements as heretic.
2) merely ceasing to practise Judaism will not render you non-Jewish in the Reform nor any other tradition - once regarded as a Jew they will absent conversion to another religion still regard you as jewish.

 

[Tahuti]

this probably should go into a judaism thread more than an Israel thread, but still:
Some aspects are incorrect:
1) Israel does recognize (as per a Supreme Court decision) any conversion presided over by a recognized authority (and this includes Reform, Reconstructionist and Conservative conversions) for the purposes of the Law of Return - things get dicey for civil matters as marriage and assorted other things are presided over by the Chief Rabbinate which is orthodox and flat out does not recognize Conservatives and regards the Reform and Reconstructionist movements as heretic.
2) merely ceasing to practise Judaism will not render you non-Jewish in the Reform nor any other tradition - once regarded as a Jew they will absent conversion to another religion still regard you as jewish.

Thanks. I was not aware of that.

 

[Mouthwash]

Thanks. I was not aware of that.

Wait, really?

 

[Tahuti]

Wait, really?

I have always assumed that Israel only recognised conversion to Orthodox Judaism as valid conversions to Judaism in general.

 

[Mouthwash]

I have always assumed that Israel only recognised conversion to Orthodox Judaism as valid conversions to Judaism in general.

Oh, I missed that part. I thought so, too. In fact, I think so very strongly that I am inclined to think ori is wrong.

 

[ori]

check here: http://www.irac.org/userfiles//Letter to CCAR - Conversion and Aliyah.pdf

The last major judgment in our favor was in 2005, when the Supreme Court reiterated that the State of Israel must recognize non-Orthodox conversions performed overseas, even if the study leading up to the conversion did not take place within the framework of the converting congregation. This allowed courts to approve, for the first time, conversions performed overseas after study within the framework of the Reform and Conservative movements in Israel.

also:

In 1989, the Court, in a precedent-setting case, ordered that Jews converted in any conversion outside of Israel must be recognized as Jews for the purpose of immigration. The Supreme Court claimed that there was no basis for discrimination against Jews converted by non-Orthodox clergy for the purpose of citizenship and registration as Jews.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Where are you getting these ideas? Any amount of knowledge in Judaism- such as could be gained from reading its Wikipedia page- would clear both of these questions up.

I think the answer is that you're not really interested in knowing, you are interested in provoking the OP with nonsense about Israeli racism.

Feel free to correct me.

some people are really being more paranoid every day

 

[Natan35]

some people are really being more paranoid every day

Can I convert to Judaism to become a "true" Jew or do you feel you have to inherit it somehow?

What's the view of your personal family?

How do you gather the Israeli state generally think of converting to Judaism?

Can I convert and migrate to Israel and be treated as an equal citizen?

This thread is called "ask an Israeli". Last time i checked, he is a Israeli.

@angst: you can convert. The public don't always treat those converts as "equal".

 

[Samson]

I have a couple of questions, one practical and one inquisitive:

How does tipping work in Israel? In particular, how much is reasonable, and should one tip at a bar when one is served at the bar not the table?

Why is most graffiti in latin script? Most signs and other public stuff is in Hebrew, most youth I meet are pretty nationalist, so why are most graffiti artists writing in the western alphabet?

 

[hangman]

Why are so many Jews against the state of Israel?

I wasn't aware that many Jews are against Israel, unless you talking about the extremist orthodox, which basically think that the entire concept of "Jewish state" is slowing the arrival of the messiah, and other religious reasons...

Most of the Jews I've met are fairly liberal, and as such, they are frequently embarrassed by Israel's policy towards the Palestinians and others. In America at least, the segregation in schools, buses, and other places reminds us of how African Americans were treated during the Jim Crow era.

1) Which was actually going to be my question: are Israelis generally aware that Americans are horrified by segregation? I get the impression that many Israelis don't realize how it looks to us...

2) In the U.S., we conceive of ethnicity as separate from nationality/citizenship, which go together (although it drives Europeans nuts ), so for example, here you could say "I'm half Scottish and half Italian" for ethnicity and "I'm from America" for nationality. In Israel, it seems like the system is that ethnicity and citizenship go together, but nationality is separate. Would most Israelis be willing to switch to the American-style system under a secular one-state solution?

3) Can you identify Israeli propaganda or Hasbara when you see it? What does it usually look like? Does America aim propaganda at Israel? (It's hard for us to tell because it's illegal for our spies to aim propaganda at us, so we can't always tell what they're telling people in foreign countries.)

4) Where do you see Israel in 20 years?

5) Do you have Palestinian friends? I've met a few Palestinians here.

 

[SargontheGreat2]

Do you think Israel is more like Europe or America?