Because We Have a Problem: 2016 Forcasting List

So, I (maybe naively) figured that Huntsman didn't really get strong backing from the Mormon communities because Romney already had them locked into supporting him. What's a Jack Mormon, and why does it sound like something I wouldn't want to be?

That's certainly part of it. I don't think Huntsman would have picked up a ton of LDS activist support even if Mitt wasn't running though (I mean, he'd get more than say, a Ron Paul or a Santorum or something, but you know what I mean).

A Jack Mormon is somebody who still publicly identifies as LDS, and might even go to church once in a while, but doesn't really live the tenets of the faith (he might drink, for example). It's a more pejorative term out west, where people may still keep their membership or tell people they're Mormons for social or business reasons. It Utah, it is virtually impossible to get elected, especially statewide, if you're not a Mormon (I think over 80% of their legislature are Mormons). Huntsman probably stuck around out of political necessity.

Mitt, on the other hand, served in one of the highest level "lay" positions in the church there is. He's all in.
 
Side note: Huntsman is still listed in the wiki list of persons who have publicly expressed interest.

The wiki list has a ton of extra names on it that I would consider serious long shots, though--Palin, for example. I'm pretty sure that when she resigned as governor she left public office for good and is now a celebrity Republican speaker.

That's cool. It's a long shot prediction but how cool would it be if it was Rice/Rubio for President/Vice President on the GOP ticket?
 
As in Condeleeza? I don't see why she'd run. She'd certainly be intimidating if she did, although I doubt she'd appeal to the base well.

It would indicate a radical departure from your typical GOP nominee stereotype. Maybe that's something they should consider.
 
Condi has no geographical or ideological base constituency, was never elected to anything, and was a point person for exceptionally unpopular foreign policy.

I don't doubt that she's a very impressive woman but I don't see why anybody would be excited about her running for president.
 
I don't doubt that she's a very impressive woman but I don't see why anybody would be excited about her running for president.
It wouldn't be for political reasons.
 
Side note: Huntsman is still listed in the wiki list of persons who have publicly expressed interest.

The wiki list has a ton of extra names on it that I would consider serious long shots, though--Palin, for example. I'm pretty sure that when she resigned as governor she left public office for good and is now a celebrity Republican speaker.

Sarah would be better than most of the crap that's being discussed right now. I still probably wouldn't vote for her though, except maybe if she had a genuine liberty candidate as her VP.

That's cool. It's a long shot prediction but how cool would it be if it was Rice/Rubio for President/Vice President on the GOP ticket?

Not at all.

Not very. Neither of them has particularly good policy positions.

Exactly. Who do you like in the GOP, if anyone?
 
It wouldn't be for political reasons.

If it's for the identify politics angle, I think there are other candidates from those lists that could provide that without some of the baggage.

From that wiki list:

I think we can comfortably rule out Evan Bayh, who doesn't have a friend in the world outside of Big Pharma. His conduct in Indiana during the 2010 elections alienated virtually every local activist, and his shilling for Pharma companies after leaving the Senate in a huff won him nothing but bad press. He's a hack, and a personally disagreeable hack at that. I learned a bunch of Evan Bayh stories and none of them are good.

Rahm's approval rating has started to tank in Chicago as well, thanks to fallout from gang violence and a highly controversial plan to close public schools (plus a teacher's strike that nobody needed). I think he has the ambition to kick the tires on a run, but this is not a good time. Chicago doesn't have a great national rep right now.

Booker and Castro may have bright futures, but I think they're probably too green. I suspect some donors might have fatigue over a "newbie" after the legislative problems with Obama.

Brian Schweitzer has been mentioned again and again as a replacement for Max Baccus in the Senate. I don't know if he'd see that as a stepping stone to a presidential run, but I think we're going to be hearing more from this guy in the next few years.
 
That's cool. It's a long shot prediction but how cool would it be if it was Rice/Rubio for President/Vice President on the GOP ticket?

As you point out, it would be a seriously radical departure from their typical nominee. I think it might be too radical for the base to swallow. Maybe a minority for a single candidate, likely a VP slot if the base pushes the primary system for A Real Conservative (TM) candidate.

Condi has no geographical or ideological base constituency, was never elected to anything, and was a point person for exceptionally unpopular foreign policy.

The memory of that foreign policy is fading fast, though, and look at the media blitz on the anniversary of the start of hostilities in 2003. There are plenty of former Bush officials who are trying to reinvent the legacy of the Iraq War. I think the lack of electoral experience is the real killer--campaigns are difficult things to manage, and if you can't prove you can win them at the state level, jumping to the national level immediately is a huge risk.

This is why I think we should be thinking of Obama as an exception--he only won a single statewide election before going for the White House. And you can get lucky in a wave election, too, so only winning multiple statewide elections can prove a candidate's campaigning skills. That's another reason why I am looking at guys like Warner and O'Malley if Clinton and Biden do not run, both of whom have multiple statewide elections under their belt. I'm afraid a few of these predictions might end up being Pawlenties, though.

Sarah would be better than most of the crap that's being discussed right now. I still probably wouldn't vote for her though, except maybe if she had a genuine liberty candidate as her VP.

I'm certain any Democratic candidate would love to go up against Sarah Palin at the top of the ticket. Her appeal was limited to the Republican base, which is insufficiently large to win national elections at the moment.

Side question: is "liberty candidate" a thing now?

If it's for the identify politics angle, I think there are other candidates from those lists that could provide that without some of the baggage.

Do people seriously buy into the identity politics argument? It always seemed a bit silly to me, and the evidence used to support it is a little murky and intertwined with other factors.

...

Booker and Castro may have bright futures, but I think they're probably too green. I suspect some donors might have fatigue over a "newbie" after the legislative problems with Obama.

Brian Schweitzer has been mentioned again and again as a replacement for Max Baccus in the Senate. I don't know if he'd see that as a stepping stone to a presidential run, but I think we're going to be hearing more from this guy in the next few years.

Agreed on the other candidates. I think Booker and Castro have a lot of life left to plan a presidential run, and they might want to look to 2020/2024 depending on who wins in 2016 at the earliest, or even 2028/2032 for a run. In the meantime, run for the governorship or the US Senate, whichever one gives a greater chance of success. They have a lot of potential and it would be a shame to burn it. Schweitzer might take heat from the Democratic base for his position on gun rights/control/safety/whatever it's called now on the national stage, but that might help him in Montana. A lot depends on how influential these new anti-gun-lobby groups are in 2016, which I think is difficult to predict at the moment.
 
I'm certain any Democratic candidate would love to go up against Sarah Palin at the top of the ticket. Her appeal was limited to the Republican base, which is insufficiently large to win national elections at the moment.

I agree with you. I don't think Palin would do well. I don't even particularly love her politics, I just think she'd be better than the status quo. But yeah, she'd get killed. Ron Paul would have at least gotten brownie points from some people for consistency and actually knowing his positions (Which are WAY out of current mainstream) but he'd still probably get killed. Rand Paul I think actually would have a chance. I genuinely think Rand would crush almost anyone intellectually in a debate but I don't know if that would translate into winning.

As for "Liberty candidate", I don't know, have you heard it from anyone other than me? Its a common term on RPF but I haven't really heard it anywhere else. Its basically my way of saying "Sort-of leaning in the general direction of libertarians, but not really a libertarian" sort of thing. Other than Ron Paul, most of the "libertarian" candidates that you've heard about would probably fit into the category of "Liberty candidate" but are usually not actually libertarians, even by softer definitions of that word.
Side question: is "liberty candidate" a thing now?
 
I agree with you. I don't think Palin would do well. I don't even particularly love her politics, I just think she'd be better than the status quo. But yeah, she'd get killed. Ron Paul would have at least gotten brownie points from some people for consistency and actually knowing his positions (Which are WAY out of current mainstream) but he'd still probably get killed. Rand Paul I think actually would have a chance. I genuinely think Rand would crush almost anyone intellectually in a debate but I don't know if that would translate into winning.

Rand Paul has a chance at the primaries because he can probably channel some of his dad's base and is more attractive to the really far-right Tea Party types. He's doing well-enough in the polling right now, along with Rubio and Christie, to be considered a front-running candidate, although a lot can change between now and early 2016 when the primaries and caucuses start assigning delegates. Still, better to be leading at some point than never.

I don't think we have enough material to base debate performances on. Who ran against him, and what did that debate look like?

As for "Liberty candidate", I don't know, have you heard it from anyone other than me? Its a common term on RPF but I haven't really heard it anywhere else. Its basically my way of saying "Sort-of leaning in the general direction of libertarians, but not really a libertarian" sort of thing. Other than Ron Paul, most of the "libertarian" candidates that you've heard about would probably fit into the category of "Liberty candidate" but are usually not actually libertarians, even by softer definitions of that word.

Heard it in real life from another libertarian, then saw it printed here the next day and had to ask.
 
I don't know the answer to that question. I've never seen him debate. He's very, very smart though. That, along with really wanting to win. Ron Paul was brilliant but he didn't care about winning, hence why he basically flat out admitted to wanting to legalize heroin in South Carolina. That's obviously not really giving a crap about winning:p

Heard it in real life from another libertarian, then saw it printed here the next day and had to ask.

Not sure if everyone else uses the same definitions I do. To most it seems really just like "Someone who supports liberty enough that I'll support them." There's some debate as to who does and who does not qualify.
 
Rand Paul would have to hope for Palins and Cains to have even a remote shot at crushing anyone in a debate. The man even had some chick on MSNBC making him look incompetent. He basially got pantsed and has dodged her ever since.
 
Rand Paul would have to hope for Palins and Cains to have even a remote shot at crushing anyone in a debate.

Palin is stupid as crap. She just isn't evil and malicious, yet. That makes her at least a hundred times better than "President" killer in chief Obama.

We'd lose her to the neocons as soon as she got in though, just like those on the left who are genuinely against war and imperialism lost Obama.

Rand Paul knows what he's trying to accomplish, and he's fighting to win. He isn't perfect but he's the best shot this doomed country has to survive four (Or eight) extra years.
 
Rand Paul would have to hope for Palins and Cains to have even a remote shot at crushing anyone in a debate. The man even had some chick on MSNBC making him look incompetent. He basially got pantsed and has dodged her ever since.

Rand Paul wants to win. So he lied about the CRA. Obviously the law is a piece of crap, and everyone with any kind of libertarian sentiment knows it. Rand Paul knows it. But he couldn't really say it and still have a chance to win.

I'll remind all of you that Ron Paul stood by his conviction, and voted NO on celebrating the passage of the crap law.
 
Palin is stupid as crap. She just isn't evil and malicious, yet. That makes her at least a hundred times better than "President" killer in chief Obama.

We'd lose her to the neocons as soon as she got in though, just like those on the left who are genuinely against war and imperialism lost Obama.

Rand Paul knows what he's trying to accomplish, and he's fighting to win. He isn't perfect but he's the best shot this doomed country has to survive four (Or eight) extra years.

That wasn't the point of the post. The point of the post is that Rand Paul is a terrible debater.
 
From his recent public appearances, such as the speech at Howard, I'm not confident Rand Paul is a solid debater. He sounds articulate, especially if you like the policies he is promoting, when he is speaking alone or filibustering where others aren't interrupting. But when you go to a hostile crowd or opponent, in the case of a debate, he didn't seem nearly as strong as he should have been. That being said, it's better for him to suck now and improve when not too many people are paying attention rather than suck in 2016, when people will be voting on his performance.

While we are all talking and half-paying attention, groups like PPP are doing primary polls. According to the ones released in March and April, we have:

Rubio leading in Iowa, North Carolina, Louisiana, and Texas.
Jeb Bush was leading in Florida (older poll).
Christie was leading in Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
Ryan was leading in Wisconsin (older).
Rand Paul is leading in Kentucky and New Hampshire.

The big shift this month was Christie falling out of favor in New Hampshire to first Rubio and now Rand Paul. Rubio is taking a beating on immigration and Rand Paul is increasing his national profile, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him move up in a few more states.
 
I don't really follow enough politicians closely in order to know whom I think would make the best libertarian leaning presidential candidate.

I've heard a lot of libertarians saying good things about Justin Amash, the current Chairman of the House Liberty Caucus, but he'll probably want to wait a few election cycles and gain more experience before running for the highest office. He just turned 33 years old last week, and so would barely meet the minimum age requirement in 2016. In the unlikely scenario that he actually manages to be elected then, he would be the youngest president in US history. He is also an Arab, of Palestinian descent, just in case being so young is not weird enough for mainstream Republicans. (He and his family are definitely not Muslims though, but Eastern Orthodox Christians.)
 
Back
Top Bottom