Bernie+AOC Rallies?

[danjuno]

these counts are unsubstantiated and concern an undefined set, and i'm honestly confused, as the winning party pretty much spearheaded their campaign through patronization, appeal to authority and ragebait

It's a different made-up number every time. Just an excuse to blame everything on "Woke SJWs".

 

[Ordnael]

152 million Americans voted for Presidential candidates supporting the genocide being perpetrated by Israel

Is this "detail", in both the Democrat's and Republican's way of dealing with Israel, in any way or form vital to the average or just below poverty line struggling working man?

 

[danjuno]

Is this "detail", in both the Democrat's and Republican's way of dealing with Israel, in any way or form vital to the average or just below poverty line struggling working man?

An entire branch of my family being murdered in the Shoah wasn't a "vital detail" for most working-class Americans in the 40's. Evidently that means it didn't matter to you.

 

[Senethro]

Is this "detail", in both the Democrat's and Republican's way of dealing with Israel, in any way or form vital to the average or just below poverty line struggling working man?

You should probably make your actual point instead of just hinting at one. It aids communication.

But to take your question straight up: Yes, it should. Its a clear warning that you might be next.

 

[Angst]

It's a different made-up number every time. Just an excuse to blame everything on "Woke SJWs".

yea - it's very tiring. i mean it's not that i'm saying the left's strategy is working (it obviously isn't, and sidenote, it's not even like the democrats are using that strategy), but if abrasiveness is the issue... it still clearly isn't, seeing who won

 

[Lexicus]

Bit of a straw man chief.

What straw man? Do you even know what that phrase means?

It's when very vocal 10% of the population decided lecturing everyone else was a good idea.

Right, and I'm explicitly asking you if you would still be taking this line if it was 10% of the population lecturing the rest that gassing all the Jews would actually be bad. Would you be part of the 10% or would you be scolding the 10% for being annoying?

I think we all know the answer.

 

[Nick723]

It’s more that their party is a white grievance party and that makes up a large majority of their voting base. Yes it’s not all white, but they can have that be their overarching vision since 70% of voters are white. The Dem base is a mix of minorities of students, different ethnicities, basically all non Christian religions and non-religions, poor urban voters and middle upper class suburban, etc etc. Just waaaay more diverse constituents to bring together.

Or maybe race is a less relevant factor than you credit it. The recent election showed that race is an increasingly poor predictor of someone’s vote, and that other factors are more important.

Sex, college education (or not) - for starters.

152 million Americans voted for Presidential candidates supporting the genocide being perpetrated by Israel. Being popular doesn't make it right and insisting that popularity or seizing power determines morality is a dangerous road to go down.

To put a different take on this: any given candidate is never going to have 100% of policies you agree with. There are plenty of Americans who voted for these candidates who don’t support Israel’s actions.

So the reverse is also true…just because you stood for something and got voted in…doesn’t mean that policy or area has popular support.

 

[Senethro]

To put a different take on this: any given candidate is never going to have 100% of policies you agree with. There are plenty of Americans who voted for these candidates who don’t support Israel’s actions.

So the reverse is also true…just because you stood for something and got voted in…doesn’t mean that policy or area has popular support.

This is barely even a take. This is some weak cope that maybe, if we rub some doubt on it, its less bad than it looks.

Just to be clear, I put onus of blame on the candidate selection, not the electorate here.

 

[Nick723]

This is barely even a take. This is some weak cope that maybe, if we rub some doubt on it, its less bad than it looks.

Just to be clear, I put onus of blame on the candidate selection, not the electorate here.

I disagree. Its frankly ridiculous to think that most Americans would choose to vote for a 3rd party candidate with 0% chance of winning over a specific foreign policy issue.

Now if the two main candidates had different positions…that would be different.

 

[Zardnaar]

152 million Americans voted for Presidential candidates supporting the genocide being perpetrated by Israel. Being popular doesn't make it right and insisting that popularity or seizing power determines morality is a dangerous road to go down.

And you got the worst option.

If you want to fix USA including foreign policy pick stuff the public care about. I don't think Palestine cracked thecyop 5 or 10 issues Americans cared about.

Iirc one poll had it at 4%.

People don't relate to it and it doesn't directly effect them vs price of eggs, rent or whatever.

Doesn't help it was being used by Russian and Chinese bots to split the left.

What straw man? Do you even know what that phrase means?



Right, and I'm explicitly asking you if you would still be taking this line if it was 10% of the population lecturing the rest that gassing all the Jews would actually be bad. Would you be part of the 10% or would you be scolding the 10% for being annoying?

I think we all know the answer.

10% gassing Jews would be abhorrent but they wouldn't be in power.

You need to keep those types out of power which means winning elections.

AoC post election taked about listening to voters who voted for her and Trump. GoP gets around 1/3rd of the US electorate MAGA is apparently 2/3rds to 75% of them.

Anyone here disagree it's probably a good idea keeping MAGA out of power?

 

[Senethro]

I disagree. Its frankly ridiculous to think that most Americans would choose to vote for a 3rd party candidate with 0% chance of winning over a specific foreign policy issue.

Now if the two main candidates had different positions…that would be different.

No, you're not getting it. Again, you're thinking I'm blaming the electorate. I'm blaming the candidates and the machine that produces them.

Its not useful to speculate on how it could have been if they'd had different positions, because its actually not that surprising at all that they did not. Its actually kind of common. And isn't that part of the problem?

10% gassing Jews would be abhorrent but they wouldn't be in power.

You need to keep those types out of power which means winning elections.

AoC post election taked about listening to voters who voted for her and Trump. GoP gets around 1/3rd of the US electorate MAGA is apparently 2/3rds to 75% of them.

Anyone here disagree it's probably a good idea keeping MAGA out of power?

Zardnaar, should you vote for the Ethnic Cleansing party to keep the Genocide party out of power? And should you do so without questioning if perhaps something is wrong with the situation?

Should we ourselves adopt a policy position of Ethnic Cleansing in order to gently bring the conversation about genocide closer to the middle? (Bearing in mind that this was arguably the Democrat position kinda by default and it didn't enable them to win)

 

[Lexicus]

10% gassing Jews would be abhorrent but they wouldn't be in power.

This is embarassing man.

 

[Senethro]

If it's not important...

And it doesn't really matter...

And the electorate doesn't even care...

Then why not just take the easy win and be against genocide? What are the dire consequences?

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Or maybe race is a less relevant factor than you credit it. The recent election showed that race is an increasingly poor predictor of someone’s vote, and that other factors are more important.

Sex, college education (or not) - for starters.

Race as a predictive factor definitely appears to have peaked in 2016, and has come down since - as you mention, college grad or not and the gender gap are growing quickly - but it’s still true that the racial demographics of party voters are at a rudimentary level, GOP wins white voters, Dems win others. And it’s more than just racial identity as well; like, how do you view race, for instance: https://tkeskinturk.github.io/blog/resentment/

 

[Zardnaar]

This is embarassing man.

It was a straw man argument you constructed.

 

[Zardnaar]

Interesting take away.
Democrats lost house, senate, presidency and popular vote.

GoP sells fantasy better than Democrats does reality.

Competency doesn't matter neither does better policy.

You have to address people's fears even the fantasy ones

Republicans are better at peoples feelings and independent media.

 

[Lexicus]

It was a straw man argument you constructed.

No, what's embarassing is your reading comprehension.

 

[Zardnaar]

No, what's embarassing is your reading comprehension.

Comprehended it fine. It was a hypothetical strawman scenario.

I've always been straight up about keeping Nazi types out of power at all costs. Don't elect them fairly simple concept

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: Enough with the bickering, thanks. Any thread that devolves into "nuh, uh" will be swiftly closed.

 

[Ordnael]

An entire branch of my family being murdered in the Shoah wasn't a "vital detail" for most working-class Americans in the 40's. Evidently that means it didn't matter to you.

1st. Learned a new word today.
2nd. Sorry for your loss. Truly!

But to take your question straight up: Yes, it should.

Parties pro Hamas in my country are radical left, the type that wants to bring a left autocracy, crash economy, leave EU and €... so hard pass for my vote. So the Palestinian question is irrelevant for my vote. Doesn't mean I don't care about what Israel is doing to them!