Blackwater Murderers Go Free On Technicality

[Agent327]

Also, it wasn't the State Department that blundered here; the prosecution should have focused on getting clear evidence instead of relying on said statements.

 

[MobBoss]

Also, it wasn't the State Department that blundered here; the prosecution should have focused on getting clear evidence instead of relying on said statements.

Some people will never stop believing that GWB was indeed directly responsible for everything bad that ever happened. Thats just the way it is.

 

[RedRalph]

Have to say, I'll never be a fan of Obama, but the last week has improved my opinion of his administration

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8476794.stm

US Vice-President Joe Biden says the US government will appeal against a court ruling dismissing manslaughter charges in the Blackwater shootings case.

Mr Biden was speaking after meeting Iraqi politicians in Baghdad.

Iraqis were furious when a US judge threw out charges against five Blackwater security guards over the 2007 killing of 17 Iraqis in Baghdad.

Mr Biden is in Iraq in an attempt to defuse a political crisis over candidates for the election in March.

Mr Biden said the dismissal of the Blackwater charges was just that and "not an acquittal".

He expressed "personal regret" over the 16 September 2007 shootings in Baghdad's Nisoor Square.

Iraq maintains the Blackwater guards fired without provocation. Blackwater said the firing followed an ambush on one of its convoys.

The US rejected attempts for a trial in Iraq but charges in the US were thrown out when a judge ruled in December that the guards' constitutional rights had been violated and that the justice department had mishandled evidence.

The ruling provoked anger in Iraq and this month the Iraqi government began collecting signatures for a class action lawsuit on behalf of people killed or wounded in incidents involving Blackwater.

Iraq said it would seek compensation for a number of such cases and would continue to "act forcefully and decisively to prosecute".

The 2007 incident caused widespread public anger against foreign security companies operating in Iraq and their activities have been severely curbed since then.

Mr Biden's comments came as he tried to defuse a political crisis over the banning of more than 500 candidates in the March election, many on suspicion of loyalty to Saddam Hussein's dissolved Baath Party.


Mr Biden met PM Nouri Maliki and President Jalal Talabani among others.

Mr Maliki, a Shia, has generally backed the disqualifications but Mr Talabani, a Kurd, has questioned the legality of the commission which issued the disqualifications, referring it to the supreme court for a ruling.

Mr Biden said he was confident there would be a solution.

The BBC's Jim Muir in Baghdad says both the US and UN are increasingly worried that the March elections could become discredited.

He says the Americans will be eager for the elections to foster national reconciliation so the withdrawal of troops can be achieved against a stable background.

Although violence has lessened in Iraq over the past two years, security remains fragile.

Both Iraq and its Western backers see the March election as a crucial test of whether peace can be made sustainable.

 

[Newbunkle]

Do they have any new evidence then?

 

[Patroklos]

Does their populism know no end.

I have no problem with the government appealing, as long as their next case isn't as full of blatant misconduct as their last one, but whyt he hell is the Vice President advocating so in a way that pretty much suggestst hat the official opinion of the Presidency is that a private citizen is guilty before trial?

 

[RedRalph]

where is that suggested?

 

[JollyRoger]

that pretty much suggestst hat the official opinion of the Presidency is that a private citizen is guilty before trial?

Yeah, I would think the trial should have occurred before any guilty act.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Does their populism know no end.

Yes. It is quite "populist" amongst almost all civlized people to wish that justice and fairness actually prevail in incidents such as this.

 

[MobBoss]

Yes. It is quite "populist" amongst almost all civlized people to wish that justice and fairness actually prevail in incidents such as this.

Found proof that blackwater cleaned up the incident site yet? I am still waiting for proof of your allegation....

Very, very much so.

 

[El_Machinae]

The appeal will probably consist of an attempt to figure out which evidence would have been discovered regardless of the coerced testimony and then a pre-lim to figure out if such evidence would be sufficient to generate a conviction.

There's probably a great need for rapid debriefs after a situation like these, and those should obviously be forbidden as evidence against an accused. However, if there's clear criminal activity (or reasonable suspicion of one), there should be a trial using evidence gained outside of these debriefings.

The trial judge was likely correct in that a chain of evidence was soiled by poor 'Chinese wall' protocols, but an appeal would try to construct a chain of evidence available outside of even the bad Chinese wall.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Found proof that blackwater cleaned up the incident site yet? I am still waiting for proof of your allegation....

No, I was incorrect. It wasn't Blackwater that destroyed the evidence trail at the crime scene needed for a criminal investigation by removing the bullet cases prior to a complete forensics investigation. It was the US Army who did it. But the efffect was the same.

 

[Camikaze]

Does their populism know no end.

I don't understand this.

A major, if not the major criticism of the Obama Administration thus far is that they haven't been populist enough. Hence the voting for Brown as a populist choice.

 

[MobBoss]

No, I was incorrect. It wasn't Blackwater that destroyed the evidence trail at the crime scene needed for a criminal investigation by removing the bullet cases prior to a complete forensics investigation. It was the US Army who did it. But the efffect was the same.

Rofl. Do you have a citation that the US Army did it?

I mean really, moving from one baseless accusation to another isnt a winning strategy for an arguement.

Are you insinuating some kind of cover-up?

 

[dirtyparrot]

Found proof that blackwater cleaned up the incident site yet? I am still waiting for proof of your allegation....

Very, very much so.

Just waterboard them and you'll know the truth soon enough.

 

[MobBoss]

Form? Citation that the Army cleaned it up please?

 

[Patroklos]

The appeal will probably consist of an attempt to figure out which evidence would have been discovered regardless of the coerced testimony and then a pre-lim to figure out if such evidence would be sufficient to generate a conviction.

There's probably a great need for rapid debriefs after a situation like these, and those should obviously be forbidden as evidence against an accused. However, if there's clear criminal activity (or reasonable suspicion of one), there should be a trial using evidence gained outside of these debriefings.

The trial judge was likely correct in that a chain of evidence was soiled by poor 'Chinese wall' protocols, but an appeal would try to construct a chain of evidence available outside of even the bad Chinese wall.

The problems included the mishandling and tainting of witnesses, so I honestly can't see how much of anything can be used now. The misconduct was extreme and broad, they really mucked this up.

 

[Patroklos]

I don't understand this.

A major, if not the major criticism of the Obama Administration thus far is that they haven't been populist enough. Hence the voting for Brown as a populist choice.

1.) I was talking about Obama using populsim with the Iraqis.

2.) I don't think you are appreciating exactly what the word populism means.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Rofl. Do you have a citation that the US Army did it?

Rofl. You mean like this quote from the very first page of this thread which I even highlighted by bolding it?

Urbina's ruling does not resolve whether the shooting was proper. Rather, the 90-page opinion underscores some of the conflicting evidence in the case. Some Blackwater guards told prosecutors they were concerned about the shooting and offered to cooperate. Others said the convoy had been attacked. By the time the FBI began investigating, Nisoor Square had been picked clean of bullets that might have proven whether there had been a firefight or a massacre.

So it appears that not only did they remove the casings, they also even removed the bullets!

 

[MobBoss]

Rofl. You mean like this quote from the very first page of this thread?

DUDE READ IT. WHERE DOES IT SAY THE US ARMY CLEANED IT UP?

My LORD. READ YOUR OWN LINK PLEASE.

Urbina's ruling does not resolve whether the shooting was proper. Rather, the 90-page opinion underscores some of the conflicting evidence in the case. Some Blackwater guards told prosecutors they were concerned about the shooting and offered to cooperate. Others said the convoy had been attacked. By the time the FBI began investigating, Nisoor Square had been picked clean of bullets that might have proven whether there had been a firefight or a massacre.

Where in the hell does it say the US Army cleaned this up?

I mean really, this is the same crap you pulled earlier when you said Blackwater cleaned it up and used the SAME COMMENT to justify it the SAME WAY. But your quote doesnt say crap about either BLACKWATER or the US ARMY. IT DOESNT SAY WHO PICKED IT CLEAN AT ALL. So why do you assume the US Army did it when there is no evidence to support this at all - just like there was no evidence to support your earlier claim that Blackwater cleaned it up.

I have already pointed out to you that brass has an monetary value as scrap and local Iraqis will scavenge the hell out of anything like that way before the US Army shows up. Why are you so determined to propagate the lie that there was some kind of purposeful clean up here?

I mean really, moving from one baseless accusation to another isnt a winning strategy for an argument.

Wow....just wow. I just really dont know what to say. I dont see how you can continue this line of reasoning and retain one whit of credibility around here.....

 

[Patroklos]

Amazing isn't it, the US army was able to do all of this in broad daylight in the middle of Baghadad and nobody saw it except for Form!