'Body shaming'

[GoodEnoughForMe]

You lost God's die roll, probably for being a giant douche in a past life, better luck next time fatty... Or more likely there's nothing wrong with you and you could be attractive/fit/healthy, but your'e just too lazy. In that case I'm definitely not switching my standard of beauty to include you...Ugly on the inside and out.

But why would we? Fat people are gross... "Skinny fat" are pretty gross too.

nah it's just you

I don't think we should celebrate bodies that are the result of a terribly unhealthy lifestyle, either. I know you weren't arguing for that, and I'm certainly not saying our standard of beauty is acceptable, but I hope it doesn't become "all-inclusive" as that would would be going too far in the other direction.

What's wrong with just celebrating people doing what they want with their body? I'm in shape, but my job requires I sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, which is every bit as unhealthy as being obese, but I don't get stigmatized for it because it's not a choice that allows judgement based on looks.

 

[thecrazyscot]

What's wrong with just celebrating people doing what they want with their body? I'm in shape, but my job requires I sit at a desk for 9 hours a day, which is every bit as unhealthy as being obese, but I don't get stigmatized for it because it's not a choice that allows judgement based on looks.

I'm not going to celebrate someone choosing to have anorexia, and I'm not going to celebrate someone who is obese. Neither is healthy, and neither should be encouraged. If you want to do something detrimental to your body, that's fine, but don't expect society to celebrate or even support your choice - that doesn't make any sense.

That doesn't mean we should shame people, though - society should make it easier for people who aren't healthy to get help or to make choices that are more beneficial.

It's like smoking (except without the secondhand smoke) - you want to smoke, go right ahead, no one's stopping you - but you'll pay a price societally in a variety of ways. (NOTE: I don't think making people feel worthless though is a justified response...like I said, we shouldn't be shaming or bullying people)

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I'm not going to celebrate someone choosing to have anorexia, and I'm not going to celebrate someone who is obese. Neither is healthy, and neither should be encouraged. If you want to do something detrimental to your body, that's fine, but don't expect society to celebrate or even support your choice - that doesn't make any sense.

That doesn't mean we should shame people, though - society should make it easier for people who aren't healthy to get help or to make choices that are more beneficial.

It's like smoking (except without the secondhand smoke) - you want to smoke, go right ahead, no one's stopping you - but you'll pay a price societally in a variety of ways.

Ok, fair enough! Thank you. It's just that often people disguise their fat-shaming under the veneer of "being healthy" when in reality we all do things that are dangerous/unhealthy/etc. to some extent.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Yeah...I think society should be more concerned with general wellness and health than weight, tbh. People can fall slightly outside normal BMI and still be a generally healthy person. I fall squarely within my height's BMI, but I've never been good about exercising, so I would never have called myself a healthy person. I'm trying to be better about that and have started exercising more and eating healthier, but I wouldn't be shamed for my unhealthiness because I'm not overweight.

I do think we have an unhealthy (ha) obsession with weight and that it detracts from the far better goal of being healthy. I applaud companies who make steps to encourage their employees to be healthy through wellness programs. We should also be reducing portion sizes, labeling our food products better and more obviously, promote walking and biking as a method of transportation, the list goes on and on.

It makes me really sad when someone who is overweight is mocked for it, especially if they're at the gym or something. I think that simply perpetuates the problem, as research has shown that obesity is a more complex problem than we might think.

 

[warpus]

If a carwash puts up an advertisement showing a dirty car alongside the slogan: "Is your car ready for the summer?" - is that dirty car owner shaming? Or just advertising as we know it?

 

[Traitorfish]

I was talking about this with a friend, and she noted that the discussion around this advert has missed the fact that the advert itself is quite masculine. There's an assumption that, because it depicts a woman, it's aimed at woman, but look at the colouring, the layout, the font choice, the direct tone: this is a very bold, aggressive image, of the sort that's usually used to sell male deodorant or off-road vehicles or whatever. It doesn't look anything like conventional adverts for female beauty products, which tend to emphasise pastel tones, much softer fonts, and a pretty traditional sense of femininity. Even the stance of the model is quite "masculine": feet planted apart, arms firmly at the side, straight posture, she's standing like an athlete rather than a conventional female beauty model. So the net result, a female model and a masculine presentation, is very much a unisex advert.

So, while a lot of the criticisms about body-shaming and such are relevant, I'm actually a bit wary of the condemnation of the advert as "sexist", at least beyond the use a woman in a bikini to grab attention. It's just not a gender-specific advert. Perhaps if the company had made a point of having two or more versions of the advert, showing male models and perhaps adding a greater variety of body types (athletic, say, rather than just "skinny bikini girl"), they would have avoided this response.

 

[trader/warrior]

If a carwash puts up an advertisement showing a dirty car alongside the slogan: "Is your car ready for the summer?" - is that dirty car owner shaming? Or just advertising as we know it?

To some extent, yes. To make a different example, I think a similar technique to the "beach ready" ad would be a picture of a car park filled with fancy BMWs and Audis with a scrappy old Lada in the middle, "Are you ready for your new job?"

It is appealing to peoples insecurities as advertising. It's a very common tactic. But IMO not a very good one for society as a whole.

Is it worse when it's about body shapes, and is it worth protesting over? Probably not, at least not much. But still an example of the scumbag underhanded industry that marketing and advertising can be.

I was talking about this with a friend, and she noted that the discussion around this advert has missed the fact that the advert itself is quite masculine. There's an assumption that, because it depicts a woman, it's aimed at woman, but look at the colouring, the layout, the font choice, the direct tone: this is a very bold, aggressive image, of the sort that's usually used to sell male deodorant or off-road vehicles or whatever. It doesn't look anything like conventional adverts for female beauty products, which tend to emphasise pastel tones, much softer fonts, and a pretty traditional sense of femininity. Even the stance of the model is quite "masculine": feet planted apart, arms firmly at the side, straight posture, she's standing like an athlete rather than a conventional female beauty model. So the net result, a female model and a masculine presentation, is very much a unisex advert.

So, while a lot of the criticisms about body-shaming and such are relevant, I'm actually a bit wary of the condemnation of the advert as "sexist", at least beyond the use a woman in a bikini to grab attention. It's just not a gender-specific advert. Perhaps if the company had made a point of having two or more versions of the advert, showing male models and perhaps adding a greater variety of body types (athletic, say, rather than just "skinny bikini girl"), they would have avoided this response.

Yeah, the ad struck me from the beginning as pretty unisex. The girl has an almost accusatory "are you good enough for me" look about her, which I think would work on both males and females.
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On the whole it might be that my interpretation of these things are more revealing about my own insecurities than anything else, I suppose.

 

[warpus]

It is appealing to peoples insecurities as advertising. It's a very common tactic. But IMO not a very good one for society as a whole.

So it seems to me that there isn't really anything new here.. just people freaking out because they've been told to be outraged by this, or something similar. "Cause of the week".

 

[Kyriakos]

I was talking about this with a friend, and she noted that the discussion around this advert has missed the fact that the advert itself is quite masculine. There's an assumption that, because it depicts a woman, it's aimed at woman, but look at the colouring, the layout, the font choice, the direct tone: this is a very bold, aggressive image, of the sort that's usually used to sell male deodorant or off-road vehicles or whatever. It doesn't look anything like conventional adverts for female beauty products, which tend to emphasise pastel tones, much softer fonts, and a pretty traditional sense of femininity. Even the stance of the model is quite "masculine": feet planted apart, arms firmly at the side, straight posture, she's standing like an athlete rather than a conventional female beauty model. So the net result, a female model and a masculine presentation, is very much a unisex advert.

So, while a lot of the criticisms about body-shaming and such are relevant, I'm actually a bit wary of the condemnation of the advert as "sexist", at least beyond the use a woman in a bikini to grab attention. It's just not a gender-specific advert. Perhaps if the company had made a point of having two or more versions of the advert, showing male models and perhaps adding a greater variety of body types (athletic, say, rather than just "skinny bikini girl"), they would have avoided this response.

I suppose this is 'shopped?

The head really looks out of place there, but did they really make such a poster, or is it an in-joke meme?

 

[Narz]

I was talking about this with a friend, and she noted that the discussion around this advert has missed the fact that the advert itself is quite masculine. There's an assumption that, because it depicts a woman, it's aimed at woman, but look at the colouring, the layout, the font choice, the direct tone: this is a very bold, aggressive image, of the sort that's usually used to sell male deodorant or off-road vehicles or whatever. It doesn't look anything like conventional adverts for female beauty products, which tend to emphasise pastel tones, much softer fonts, and a pretty traditional sense of femininity. Even the stance of the model is quite "masculine": feet planted apart, arms firmly at the side, straight posture, she's standing like an athlete rather than a conventional female beauty model. So the net result, a female model and a masculine presentation, is very much a unisex advert.

So, while a lot of the criticisms about body-shaming and such are relevant, I'm actually a bit wary of the condemnation of the advert as "sexist", at least beyond the use a woman in a bikini to grab attention. It's just not a gender-specific advert. Perhaps if the company had made a point of having two or more versions of the advert, showing male models and perhaps adding a greater variety of body types (athletic, say, rather than just "skinny bikini girl"), they would have avoided this response.

You think they care about avoiding this response? It's publicity. Anyway, what you said just shows u can't please everyone, they will analyze your stuff to death & shame u for it if they so choose.

If u r mad that advertisers don't honor u for just who u r right now, u gonna be mad for long time.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yeah, the ad struck me from the beginning as pretty unisex. The girl has an almost accusatory "are you good enough for me" look about her, which I think would work on both males and females.
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On the whole it might be that my interpretation of these things are more revealing about my own insecurities than anything else, I suppose.

No, I think you're right. The advert presents the woman as... Not exactly powerful, but not simply a disempowered ornament. (Not unless we assume that thin, pretty blondes are necessarily disempowered, and that doesn't seem very feminist.) People have been presenting this advert as some sort of throwback, but it's really only makes sense in a very contemporary cultural context.

 

[Hygro]

It's not so much about whether they show an ideal body or an unappealing body in the ad itself, what the ad actually says has much more relevance. This is clearly intended to trigger insecurities by making people self-reflect "how will people judge me if I go to the beach", it's not saying "you can look this good at the beach this summer!", it's intended to make people think "how you are now is not good enough and people will judge you if you don't change. Buy our stuff."

Or perhaps it's intended not to trigger insecurity but to motivate positively. "Yeah, that's where I belong" followed by lifting and copious protein powder consumption. It plays on desire for success rather than fear of insufficiency.

 

[Narz]

barbs, pedals, the laws of nature don't change, in two words - whatever works

 

[trader/warrior]

Or perhaps it's intended not to trigger insecurity but to motivate positively. "Yeah, that's where I belong" followed by lifting and copious protein powder consumption. It plays on desire for success rather than fear of insufficiency.

"Yeah, that's where I belong", belong where? In the context of this ad, to me that would be with those who can go to the beach and not feel ashamed about their body, "beach body ready", it has different implications than just "some people are really good-looking and you can be like that too."

So it seems to me that there isn't really anything new here.. just people freaking out because they've been told to be outraged by this, or something similar. "Cause of the week".

That probably is the case. I haven't seen anything about this outside CFC though, so I've just been explaining my thoughts on the ad itself and the marketing tactics it uses.

 

[Traitorfish]

"Yeah, that's where I belong", belong where? In the context of this ad, to me that would be with those who can go to the beach and not feel ashamed about their body, "beach body ready", it has different implications than just "some people are really good-looking and you can be like that too."

Yeah, the ad is definitely ambiguous in that way. It's presented as a fitness product than a beauty product, so it doesn't have the same overtones of objectification, but the inclusion of a challenge casts implicit accusations of failure or insufficiency on the observer.

It's a tricky one, right enough. I wonder if that's why the reaction is so vocal, that it's more difficult than usual just to roll your eyes and get on with life?

 

[Narz]

but the inclusion of a challenge casts implicit accusations of failure or insufficiency on the observer.

That pretty standard for advertising, besides in this case it's true, most Americans are out of shape. Why argue for your limitations?

 

[Traitorfish]

It's not usually so directly stated, though. It's left implicit, like, both the advertiser and the audience know that the implication is hanging in the air, but it's left unsaid. The advertiser says "This is a beautiful person", and the viewer knows they are not beautiful like that person, but it's not said directly. This one engages the viewer directly, demands that they compare themselves to the beautiful person, knowing that they will almost certainly be found wanting. It's more overtly critical of its audience than these ads usually are, and I think that's provoking a more defensive reaction than usual.

Although, honestly, I think that it might just be a function of the macho presentation, more than anything else, an attempt to engage with a male audience which is not so heavily conditioned to compare itself to models but is conditioned to respond to challenges. To the extent that a tactic of "body-shaming" is present, I don't know if it actually has very much to do with women at all, because we have an established, much more subtle language for making women feel bad about themselves, and this isn't it.

 

[classical_hero]

If a carwash puts up an advertisement showing a dirty car alongside the slogan: "Is your car ready for the summer?" - is that dirty car owner shaming? Or just advertising as we know it?

My car isn;t ready for summer either. Quit shaming me people.

 

[JollyRoger]

Jon Sun of the Day Watch keeps telling me that Summer is coming, but I still detect some frigidity.

 

[Hygro]

"Yeah, that's where I belong", belong where? In the context of this ad, to me that would be with those who can go to the beach and not feel ashamed about their body, "beach body ready", it has different implications than just "some people are really good-looking and you can be like that too."


That probably is the case. I haven't seen anything about this outside CFC though, so I've just been explaining my thoughts on the ad itself and the marketing tactics it uses.

I think you're correct it works on a shame axis but I think it's meant to sell you via pride instead of shame. So the other direction within a shame emotional space.