Born of Fire: Discussion and Development Thread

[RedAlert]

Excellent! It's really coming together.
I have a couple more suggestions, although I'm not sure how feasible some (all?) of them are:
- Could you just enlarge Mexico, but not the Yucatan? The Maya seem to have plenty of room already, but the other Mexican civs still lack it.
- Could you enlarge the coast of Peru, but compress the coast of Chile? There are a lot of Peruvian civs that would be in very close proximity to eachother, while there are only two civs south of Lake Titicaca with lots of space.
(Sorry for being so picky!)

 

[Yoda Power]

Well I basicly agree RedAlerts suggestions, but I want to adress another point.

Roughly what size map (in tiles) do you want to end up with?

In my experience it's always hard to choose a map size by just going after a certain amount of tiles. What I do when I make maps using the bmp to bic, is that I try to generate a few different sizes and then find out wich sizes leaves enough room for the number of civs I want.

I suggest you do that too, and then post the different sizes in this thread, so we can all have a look at them in the editor and discuss what's best.

 

[Blue Monkey]

What I do when I make maps using the bmp to bic, is that I try to generate a few different sizes and then find out wich sizes leaves enough room for the number of civs I want.

I suggest you do that too, and then post the different sizes in this thread, so we can all have a look at them in the editor and discuss what's best.

This will be simple enough to do, even though I'm not using bmp2bic. Once we have an image we agree on, I'm going to overlay a grid to work from in making the map. I can just overlay the grid at a couple different sizes, and post the results.

Could you just enlarge Mexico, but not the Yucatan? The Maya seem to have plenty of room already, but the other Mexican civs still lack it.

Yes; this one's fairly easy.

Could you enlarge the coast of Peru, but compress the coast of Chile? There are a lot of Peruvian civs that would be in very close proximity to eachother, while there are only two civs south of Lake Titicaca with lots of space.
(Sorry for being so picky!)

This one's a little trickier, since they're on a continent instead joined by an isthmus, but doable.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Mexico is enlarged (about 150%), Baja was not enlarged, Peru was distorted east-west (coast & Andes get larger) and then stretched north-south(150%). Both Colombia & Chile remain the same.

If this looks okay then I will apply the grids and post copies, as Yoda Power suggested.

Edit: I just noticed that the Galapagos need to be shifted south a little (they weren't included in the distortions). Also - some of the smaller islands, such as Easter, don't show at this scale, but will be in the map.

 

[RedAlert]

I think we have a winner!
My first impression was that the whole thing looked a little odd, but I'm just used to non-distorted maps. It is, however, perfect for the mod.

 

[Blue Monkey]

I think we have a winner!
My first impression was that the whole thing looked a little odd, but I'm just used to non-distorted maps. It is, however, perfect for the mod.

It's like one of those pictures where the size of the body = the amount of brain that pays attention to it - really big hands & face, other parts smaller.

Here it is with a grid. With this grid it's 130 across by 240 down (the way the game numbers tiles). for the preview I blued out whole blocks that would for sure be deep ocean, to make it easier to see the proportion. The zip has both the preview & the whole map gridded. I just posted this size of grid figuring that you would then let me know if you wanted the grid itself made smaller (more tiles, bigger map in game) or grid larger (fewer tiles, smaller map in game).
thumbnail


zip removed to make way for new version below.

 

[Yoda Power]

I think you should use the large one, provided that you can only settlethe territories that were actually settled by the empires. (Which leaves out north Mexico, Venezuela, Central America from Guatamala to Panama, the islands and the Amazon).

Otherwise use the smaller one.

 

[RedAlert]

Blue Monkey: That looks like a good start, but I'd like to go a bit bigger (smaller grid, more tiles, larger map).
Maybe to about 120% the current dimensions?

Yoda Power: Yes, I plan to restrict the civilizations to those areas. In the fourth era (and possibly the late third era), I think I am going to extend settleable areas a bit. Places like the North of Mexico and the Amazon will always remain uninhabitable though.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Blue Monkey: That looks like a good start, but I'd like to go a bit bigger (smaller grid, more tiles, larger map).
Maybe to about 120% the current dimensions?

Yoda Power: Yes, I plan to restrict the civilizations to those areas. In the fourth era (and possibly the late third era), I think I am going to extend settleable areas a bit. Places like the North of Mexico and the Amazon will always remain uninhabitable though.

I'll try to fit in a new posting this morning - I'm going out of town this afternoon and evening. If not today, then definitely expect something tomorrow.

In the old thread we had discussed making jungle unsettleable (and unclearable) and/or using LM terrain in the same way.

 

[Blue Monkey]

How's this?
thumbnail (click to see 25% size image)


zip removed to make way for new version below.

 

[RedAlert]

That's getting close
Can you do another one with a height of about 300 tiles (which I think would make the width about 160 I think)?
I will probably end up chosing that, or the map you just posted.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Well, RedAlert, you helped me with my mod, it's time I helped you with yours . Short of Andean leaderheads? Here's three I put together this afternoon for you; only the basics are done to show you a preview. If you would like me to continue, I'll do so. Just tell me what you're going to call each one, so that I can name them. Would you require any female LHs at all?

...or maybe you don't like them and would like me to change them in some way?

 

[Blue Monkey]

This version actually came out at 304 tall.

Thumbnail of 25% image:


Mesomap 4.5

For some reason, when I reduced the grid part of the rectangular grid that helps me count tiles disappeared. The rectangles are 10x10 as the editor counts tiles, by the way. The actual tile shaped grid came across okay.

 

[Blue Monkey]

R8XFT: Here are some links to images of various Sapan Incas, showing their headresses:
Viracocha
Viracocha
Pachacutec
Atahualpa
Tupac Yupanqui

 

[RedAlert]

Rob - Wow!! You shouldn't have! Those are mighty fine looking leaderheads.
I know just what civs they would fit as, too. From left to right:
- Pacha Kamaq of the Huari
- Virachocha of the Tiwanaku
- Lanzón of the Chavin
Unfortunately, those names are completely improvised, as there are no records of the names of the rulers of those civilizations, and no rulers by those names existed (as far as I know). I had to take the names from what seems to have been the principle deity of each culture.
As for changes, would it be possible to change the backgrounds (not that those aren't good anyway) to something more specific to each of the civs? I could provide some pics if you like. Otherwise all three are completely and absolutely perfect!


Blue Monkey - I think that's the one!
I didn't think we would end up going this big, but for the amount of land it looks just right. I can't wait to see the finished product!
By the way, what are you using to make those grids?

EDIT: Rob, I meant to add, I would have use for a female leaderhead - the legendary Princess Erendira of the Tarascans.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

Ok, by all means provide me with the backgrounds you'd sooner have. I'd recommend against actual pictures though; I don't use them with leaderheads...well, it's a long story...

Thanks for providing me with picture of the Incan headdress, Blue Monkey; sadly, my skills in 3d modelling don't go as far as making one of those; I don't think I've anything that I can improvise upon either.

Back to RedAlert; I will endeavour to do these for you, but I can't guarentee when I'm doing all of them; it'll be on an as-and-when basis at the moment. Mind you, as far as I can tell, the mod's in early development, so is there any rush? Oh, by the way, I will be able to do a couple of the central American civs for you as well .

 

[Blue Monkey]

Blue Monkey - I think that's the one!
I didn't think we would end up going this big, but for the amount of land it looks just right. I can't wait to see the finished product!

Okay; I'll begin the slow process of creating the map.

By the way, what are you using to make those grids?

This website let's you make a wide variety of graph grids. They're output as a pdf. Open them in a graphics program (I used GIMP), set the "white space" as a transparent color, and you've got a scalable grid to overlay any image you want to make into a map.

 

[RedAlert]

Ok, by all means provide me with the backgrounds you'd sooner have. I'd recommend against actual pictures though; I don't use them with leaderheads...well, it's a long story...

I haven't come across anything suitable that's not an actual picture, so best go with the backgrounds you already have. They've kind of grown on me anyway.

Back to RedAlert; I will endeavour to do these for you, but I can't guarentee when I'm doing all of them; it'll be on an as-and-when basis at the moment. Mind you, as far as I can tell, the mod's in early development, so is there any rush? Oh, by the way, I will be able to do a couple of the central American civs for you as well .

No rush at all. I still have a lot of work to do, and leaderheads aren't a priority at the moment. But it's good to know I'll have some when I need them! That's great to hear you can do some central American ones too. Thanks again!

Okay; I'll begin the slow process of creating the map.
This website let's you make a wide variety of graph grids. They're output as a pdf. Open them in a graphics program (I used GIMP), set the "white space" as a transparent color, and you've got a scalable grid to overlay any image you want to make into a map.

That site is a good find. I'll have to come back to it if I make any maps in the future.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Cool leaderheads Rob!

Red: Just to Organize the Mesoamerican cities: They will be:

Era one: Firaxis American Cities era one
Era two: Your meso cities era two
Era three: My Meso Cities era two

Correct?

 

[RedAlert]

You got it! I'm going to base the andean third era off the meso era you did.
I probably won't be finishing them soon, though, as I'm taking a break to work on other parts of the mod, plus I have a Japanese city set going now.