Brexit Thread IV - They're laughing with us, not at us

[Takhisis]

The Remain campaign told far bigger lies.

I.e.…

I think the obvious choices should be:

• Remain
• Norway Plus (if it can be negotiated in time)
• May's Deal
• WTO rules

I would suggest single transferable vote, as it is the simplest of non-FPTP systems, and FPTP is obviously not the solution here.

May's Deal is out because the Tories want May out, Norway plus will probably be blocked by Norway or other countries in such a position because otherwise that'd be unfair to them, so it's Remain or WTO rules.

Or the government falls.

Of course, all the UK needs to do is hand back Northern Ireland and there's no need for the backstop at all.

You see, there's a lot of people who would say it's not ‘hand back’ but ‘hand over’.

 

[Arakhor]

You see, there's a lot of people who would say it's not ‘hand back’ but ‘hand over’.

Same thing. It would remove the hated backstop as a thing and we could get back to slashing our own wrists and sulking alone without having a land border with the EU.

 

[Silurian]

To a certain extent I'd welcome a Conservative leadership challange. Given they can barely get the support to mount one it does suggest the Brexiteers have been running a fake game all along. It might be good to know how strong/weak they are. Then again theres always the risk the Boris cometh given how cowardly most of the Tories are.

Don't forget that the Tory MPs vote with one candidate being eliminated each round until there is only two left. Then it goes to the ordinary party members and the nearly dead are strong brexit supporters so we could well get Boris if he gets through to the last two.

Same thing. It would remove the hated backstop as a thing and we could get back to slashing our own wrists and sulking alone without having a land border with the EU.

Until Scotland leaves and joins the EU.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Don't forget that the Tory MPs vote with one candidate being eliminated each round until there is only two left. Then it goes to the ordinary party members and the nearly dead are strong brexit supporters so we could well get Boris if he gets through to the last two.

From what I understand the Stop Boris club amongst Tory MP is such that that is unlikely to happen. StilI suppose one must anticipate the direst consequences.

Until Scotland leaves and joins the EU.

An eminantly sensible move, I will probably be campaigning for the Welsh to do the same.

edit: In case any wonders I've been a follower of lost causes all my life.

 

[Silurian]

The trouble is all Boris has got to do is not come last and be eliminated until there is only two.

Maybe Wales and Scotland should join a Celtic confederation with Ireland. Then there is no need for talks to join the EU your just in.

 

[really]

An eminantly sensible move, I will probably be campaigning for the Welsh to do the same.

edit: In case any wonders I've been a follower of lost causes all my life.

I do hope a lunatic Brexiter wins if she goes.
There will be no hiding and blaming others from that job.

The Scottish - English border is probably physically the easiest one to police.
Wales - England would be a mess - trains from the north of Wales to the south have to cross into England on the way.

 

[AmazonQueen]

I do hope a lunatic Brexiter wins if she goes.
There will be no hiding and blaming others from that job.

The Scottish - English border is probably physically the easiest one to police.
Wales - England would be a mess - trains from the north of Wales to the south have to cross into England on the way.

Yes, nothing in Wales is organised on a Welsh basis, it all connects to England, which considering the geography is sensible, but would make independence interesting.
Then theres the bits of Wales that are quite English, Pembroke, much of Glamorgan, much of the Borders.

Still politically speaking Wales is left-leaning (and the parts that aren't are mostly agricultural and will get shafted in any trade deals the post-Brexit Tories do).
In the end I'd rather be part of an insignificant and not particularly rich nation than part of Little England.

 

[Takhisis]

Same thing. It would remove the hated backstop as a thing and we could get back to slashing our own wrists and sulking alone without having a land border with the EU.

Yes, but not quite. If they called it ‘hand back’ it would mean that

Until Scotland leaves and joins the EU.

I suppose that at this point Nicola Sturgeon making a move is only a matter of time and circumstances. Either wring concessions tending towards devo-max out of a non-Conservative government or just stage an independence stay in the EU referendum at some point.

 

[Cheetah]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46528952
'We simply cannot allow the Irish to treat us like this," the former minister said about the negotiating tactics of the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar.

The Conservative MP was exasperated that the Republic of Ireland (population: 4.8m) has been able to shape the EU negotiating stance that has put such pressure on the UK (population: 66m).

"This simply cannot stand," the one-time moderniser told me. "The Irish really should know their place."'

This is literally and absolutely outrageous.

 

[AmazonQueen]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46520896

Leadstrom criticises Bercow's impartiality over Brexit.

 

[Arakhor]

Of course. Anything that gets in the way of her beloved Brexit...

Besides, where does that silly woman think we'll find someone "absolutely impartial" towards Brexit?

 

[danjuno]

Why is it that the only crap some westminster politicians give with regards to NI is whose flag flies over it? Nothing else. Not the people, not the peace, not its welfare. If they value it so little why the desperate grip upon it?

Ego. And they're in government with the party of loyalist death squads.

 

[Kyriakos]

Still, the situation is quite dire. Current english gov is like austria-hungary in ww1: "desperate, but not serious".
Imo (other than a risky second referendum) there is only a norway-type deal making sense.

 

[PhroX]

Well, they've got the 48 letters:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46535739

 

[Silurian]

and the Conservative MPs vote of no confidence in Mrs May will be held at 1800 today.

That was my thought too. Uppi got the 2000th post, so we'll find out tomorrow, I guess.

So @uppi you get to start the new thread.
Only three or four to go.

 

[Hrothbern]

A podium is set outside Downingstreet 10 half an hour ago.
No PM seal on it.

What is May going to say ?

 

[Silurian]

She did not say much just that she is going to fight the no confidence vote.


If she loses then there is an election which she can not be a candidate in the future Conservative Party leader election.
We woll know the result at 2200 tonight when the votes have been counted.

In 1990 Margaret Thatcher lost her leader ship challenge the rules were different and there was no vote of confidence just votes of Tory MPs. Thatcher withdrew after wining the vote by 55%, pulling out before the second round. May may not follow this lead and carry on even if she wins by one vote.

 

[Kyriakos]

This is messed up. Besides, what happens if may loses and immediately there is a vote in parliament (not just tory) for no confidence?

Also, assuming that boris is a burned card, there are only stuff like mogg, david davidson davis and that scottish tory leader?
Unless they go for some even more ridiculous "lifestyle" figurehead ala blair.

 

[Silurian]

Most likely some remainers put in letters after after May kicked the can down the road on Monday.
If there is an leadership election I can not see Mogg standing because he would not win, David Davis could stand. Ruth Davidson is not an MP, there could be a bye election, in a safe English conservative seat but that would take a couple of months which is likely to take us to the end of March or into April before she could stand up in parliament.

 

[Samson]

This is messed up. Besides, what happens if may loses and immediately there is a vote in parliament (not just tory) for no confidence?

No-one knows. On radio 4 they speculated that it would be inconsistent for Torys to say they have no confidence in the PM but do have confidence in the government. I would not expect consistency to come above self preservation for this lot.

And yeah, it is messed up. How can we have a Tory leadership contest at this point? If we have time for that, surely we have time for some for of national poll (either a 2nd referendum or a general election).