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Brexit Thread VI - The Knockout Phase ?!?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hrothbern, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    The Remainers, and other Pro EU posters, seem to assume that Jeremy Corbyn should lead his party on a long term anti-brexit campaign.

    The most likely consequence of that would be to lose 1/3 of the Labour vote in UK elections to neutral or pro-Leave candidates.

    I understand the logic that says that, by sitting on the fence, he is already losing more than one third of his voting
    base to pro Remain Green, Lib-Dem and Change UK at the European Election, but that is probably a very
    temporary loss; they will likely switch back after that election and support Labour in the next UK general election.

    .
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  2. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    And keep in mind that the Brexit Party single issue is not just being pro-brexit. It is being pro-brexit without any deal: just leave.

    That is absolutely, totally, provably false, you just have to look back at howw this adgument has been used time and again. "Euroskepticism" has risen in the UK, which did had two referendums on furthering the process of "integration" that passed. If it were true that younger people would be "europhiles" and the "euroskeptics" would die out, they would be dead already. Instead their vote share grew. Perhaps, have you considered, as people grow older some grow wiser about how their community words or fails to work?

    This talk of new voters, of the leavers dying out, is bullcrap. It is delaying tactics by the remainers, self-deluded and egged on by their rivals within the EU. They fight they are putting up against brexit is wrecking the UK. It does not help them at all because their position cannot win, in the end they will lose, the UK will leave. But due to their constant obstructionism the UK is failing to fight the EU properly, and it is a fight. Just ask the Swiss how the EU wields its power around when it thinks it has an advantage. The UK needs to be united to this fight, everyone there loses from these divisions.

    The UK must leave in order to move forward out of this political deadlock. And it must leave without a deal. And it should have prepared for that from the beginning. Heve people there learned nothing from the greek trainwreck? When negotiating with the EU, the EU is your enemy and you cannot expect any favors of help from it. You must be prepared to walk out.



    Me, I think he should have led on a pro-brexit campaign. The UK needs more honesty about the EU in its political discussion.
    Corbyn could do it. If he wasn't constrained by some compromise not to split the party. I don't know if it was the right or wrong choice. But I do know that he is no beginner in politics, was always principled, and so I'm waiting out to see where his strategy leads. He's still the best possible hope for a competent PM to handle the rough times ahead for the UK, divided and left unprepared by the current incompetent government.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
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  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Well, is the result in Britain known by now? :)
     
  4. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Partial results are coming in. I don't trust The Guardian but they probably won't mess up in just reporting numbers. I'm getting the impression that Labour is losing more votes to the Brexit Party, outside of the London bubble, than it lost to the LD, judging from the results in London. The LD seem to have grabbed more votes from the conservatives than from Labour, whose discontented voters may have gone to the Greens or the motley band of blairites?

    As for the rest of the EU, the most relevant things are the failure of Macron in France and the success of the Lega in Italy. Macron will limp on but his european ambitions won't. The italians are likely to have an early election.

    On Italy's situation this piece on Salvini is worth reading I think, I'd like to hear what the italians here think of it.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2019
  5. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/crjeqkdevwvt/the-uks-european-elections-2019

    Some results still to come in but SNP due to get 38% in Scotland, well ahead of everyone else.
    I'd say the results show UK just as polarised as after the referendum with hard Brexit and Remain parties making gains and the Brexit deal parties, Labour and Tories, suffering.
     
  6. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Just noticed that turnout in the UK was less than 40%. Does not allow for reading much from the results, even if they were not so equally split into the three fields of "yes/no/we can't decide" on brexit.

    Isn't 38% for the SNP in Scotland kind of low?
     
  7. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I suppose Sargon of Akkad didn't get elected? :D
     
  9. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Nope, UKIP didn't win a single seat.
    They and Change UK really should just shut down.
     
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  10. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    With Scotland and Northern Ireland left to declare, the pro-Remain parties are slightly leading the pro-Brexit parties on 38% vs 36.8%. The Tories and Labour put together got 23 4%.
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Ehm, you are counting the tories as neutral now and not pro-brexit? :lol: Brexit party + ukip + tories = 44% or something.
     
  12. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    I do wonder why those two previously pro Remain parts of the UK take the longest to declare.
     
  13. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    In the case of Scotland its waiting for the Western Isles.
    Scotland is predicted to have 3 SNP, 1 LD, 1 Brexit and 1 Tory MEP.

    NI doesn't count votes on the Sabbath so they only started today.

    NI is predicted to have 1 DUP, 1 SF and 1 Alliance MEP.
     
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  14. really

    really Deity

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    No counting on Sunday + NI uses PR-STV which requires rounds of eliminations.
     
  15. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Northern Ireland did not want to count votes on a Sunday.
    results BTW not earlier expected than on Tuesday.

    Scotland just wants to tease the Tories and the Labour party... with postponing as long as possible making public the extent of their devastation :goodjob:
     
  16. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    The Tories are not unambiguously pro-Brexit, just like Labour, especially not a no-deal Brexit.
     
  17. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    I am pleased that for once in my life my party of choice beat Labour.

    #LibDems
     
  18. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    You are not living in Islington North ? ;)
     
  19. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Aren't virtually all of them pro some kind of brexit? Lexit included. It isn't like in Labour, where some are Remain and others Lexit.
     
  20. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    Most of them will support anything that keeps them in parliament. That's the Tory way.
    In 2016 24 of the Cabinet supported Remain, 6 Leave, and 185 Tory MPs supported Remain, 138 Leave.
     
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