Britain Europe's most peaceful country?

[del62]

The statistics seem to be pointing that way, especially England & Wales

% change in total recorded crime

Of course this represents the direction, not the overall figures, but interesingly London (Britian's most violent place) has a lower homicide rate than Brussels and Amsterdam

 

[amadeus]

For how long is this data? Change from what to what? Graph leaves a lot out, unfortunately.

Surprised to hear London has a lower reported homicide rate than Brussels and Amsterdam, though.

 

[del62]

Forgot the link

http://http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275280

 

[classical_hero]

You need to fix the link.

After viewing recently the FA Cup semi between Millwall and Wigan, and then later Newcastle vs Sunderland and the aftermath of that, I would say no.

 

[Samson]

This is the biggest reduction in violent crime, which is very different from the lowest level. It is easy to see that if we had (and possibly still do) the HIGHEST level of violent crime we could relatively easily have the greatest reduction. Not to say this is not a good think, but must be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[metatron]

For how long is this data? Change from what to what? Graph leaves a lot out, unfortunately.

British humour.

Surprised to hear London has a lower reported homicide rate than Brussels and Amsterdam, though.

They probably meant Greater London by that. The figures for Amsterdam and Brussels could be based on administrative devisions more closely related to an urban core, leaving out periphery with with low crime.

 

[Samson]

They probably meant Greater London by that. The figures for Amsterdam and Brussels could be based on administrative devisions more closely related to an urban core, leaving out periphery with with low crime.

And London is a LOT bigger, so even if both included all of the city, London has a lot more people in the "periphery with with low crime"

 

[del62]

The thing is London has a homicide rate of 1.6 per 100K compared to Amsterdams 4.4 and Brussels 3, even the worse boroughs in London, Lewisham is only 2.5, so the greater London argument is somewhat false.

 

[Arwon]

The statistics seem to be pointing that way, especially England & Wales

% change in total recorded crime

Of course this represents the direction, not the overall figures, but interesingly London (Britian's most violent place) has a lower homicide rate than Brussels and Amsterdam

"Recorded crime" is not an internationally comparable statistic.

 

[Arwon]

The thing is London has a homicide rate of 1.6 per 100K compared to Amsterdams 4.4 and Brussels 3, even the worse boroughs in London, Lewisham is only 2.5, so the greater London argument is somewhat false.

In some countries recorded homicides include manslaughter, others don't. Some include vehicular manslaughter specifically while others exclude it. Countries differ in how they treat assault causing unintentional death. Some only call a death homicide when a charge is laid, others record at a n earlier point in the judicial process.

These numbers may well be accurate, but be very very careful comparing categories of recorded crime across countries.

Further, though, homicide numbers are very low and movements are erratic for this reason. Amsterdam has a population of 800k. What you are saying there is that it had about 35 murders one year. That could easily halve or double from year to year.

 

[Mise]

The 2.5 rate for Lewisham was based on 11 recorded homocides IIRC.

You can certainly say that they are a comparable level of homocides though; the common perception that London is "more violent" than Amsterdam or Brussels is certainly not supported by these statistics.

I do find it amusing that the immediate reaction is that the statistics must be "taken with a pinch of salt" -- i.e. don't believe for one minute that (a) crime is falling and (b) Britain could possibly be more peaceful than anywhere in continental Europe.

 

[metatron]

I do find it amusing that the immediate reaction is that the statistics must be "taken with a pinch of salt" -- i.e. don't believe for one minute that (a) crime is falling and (b) Britain could possibly be more peaceful than anywhere in continental Europe.

I can sure believe that crime in London is falling. I would have thought so without seeing the graph.
And i could very well imagine that London has a relatively low murder rate. I might give you Paris, Berlin, Rome in a heartbeat. It's Amsterdam and Brussels specifically that cause my hesitation.

 

[Arwon]

the common perception that London is "more violent" than Amsterdam or Brussels is certainly not supported by these statistics.

Is that a common perception? I don't know, you're all just Europe to me. I would have assumed that Brussels was less violent than Amsterdam and London because Brussels is supposed to be boring. But then I would have also assumed Northern Europe like Amsterdam and London were more violent than say Rome or Madrid because drinking.

International comparisons of recorded crime data is just a bugbear of mine. At least use crime victimisation surveys...

 

[metatron]

Is that a common perception? I don't know, you're all just Europe to me.

Not without qualification, but: Yes, it is a somewhat common perception.
(If for nothing else, just for the size of London. Amsterdam has the quaint bias going for it etc.)

 

[Mise]

That probably sounded more accusative than I intended. The reaction is the same on other websites where this was posted (including the BBC comments section), and certainly readers of The Telegraph and The Daily Mail won't believe for one minute that things aren't getting inexorably worse in this country (probably because of immigrants). Though having said that, it shouldn't surprise Daily Mail readers to learn that an incorrigibly liberal city full of drugs, prostitutes and cycle lanes would also have high crime rates.

 

[Arwon]

Amsterdam quaint? It's a port city full of drugs, prostitution and organised crime...

 

[Arwon]

That probably sounded more accusative than I intended. The reaction is the same on other websites where this was posted (including the BBC comments section), and certainly readers of The Telegraph and The Daily Mail won't believe for one minute that things aren't getting inexorably worse in this country (probably because of immigrants).

Oh right Broken Britain and all that tomfoolery

 

[Tarquelne]

Amsterdam quaint? It's a port city full of drugs, prostitution and organised crime...

When the junkie hooker that just rolled you and dumped you in the harbor is wearing clogs, it's quaint.

 

[warpus]

Poland #2, right behind the UK

That is actually very good to see and Poland was never really a place with a lot of crime to begin with. As for the UK, I don't really know too much about the situation there, so I can't comment. My only frame of reference are football matches and there is never violence at those, except for strange exceptions like Wigan-Millwall 2 weeks ago

 

[metatron]

Amsterdam quaint? It's a port city full of drugs, prostitution and organised crime...

I can only give you German perspective. The thing is that it all looks relatively nice, in part because it's regulated. England has legal but unregulated prostitution for starters, which is really foreign to us.
I believe it's fairly common for Germans to think of Berlin as being big and full of crime, of London and Paris as worse, and of Amsterdam as quaint with quaint drugs and hookers a quaint harbor and some quaint murder here and there...

Plus, what Mise said about British media.

Plus: The fact that Rotterdam has a (partly undeserved) reputation as being really badass, makes Amsterdam look better in contrast.