British Parliamentary convulsions, continued...

[GinandTonic]

The Liberal Democrats also don't seem to stand a chance, given that a further shift leftward isn't going to be what the British public wants after Gordon Brown.

Not really true about the shift to the left. Just about the wirdest thing about the present situation is that people are so angry about having voted Lab and got Tory that they will vote tory just to slap New Labour.

Since this clearly makes so little sense that quite a few voters are aware it is utterly foolish we see the growth of the minor parties - Green, UKIP and the assorted Nationalists. Oddly the Libs dont seem to be picking up as much ground as they should.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Oddly the Libs dont seem to be picking up as much ground as they should.

The reason for this is quite simple.

Despite their various pretences, the Libs were and remained in support of:


(a) the pro Anglo-Saxon financial banking led capitalism model - that led to the crash
(b) indefinite economic growth - that is not possible due to energy supply constraints
(c) intervention in Iraq and in Iran - that resulted in a steady stream of casualties
(d) going along with increasing the powers of european union institutions - extradition
(e) accepting contributions from commercial lobbyists - e.g. for IPR laws

in exactly the same way that the Conservative and Labour parties are.

 

[Rossiya]

Your off to room 101.

Anyway the sacking of meny Mps have realy put distrust amongst the british people. I'm expecting a BNP victory.

You cant be serious? A BNP victory with John Barrowman as PM?

 

[Ghpstage]

Like most countries in the world it seems, the UK has no party actually worth voting into government . I can forsee the Tories getting in next time by a landlslide, as the general consensus among voters seems to be:

"They really can't be as bad as these people, can they?"

Whether or no this thinking proves true, it is the worst way people can possibly think, and I would hope most would agree with me on this.

I firmly believe the best possible outcome will be, and always has been a hung parliament, with no overall control between the 3 main parties.
I do however, realise this is extremely unlikely, but a large increase in smaller parties and independants may lead to a similar effect where the largest party can't just railroad legislation through by use of the party whip.

I'm personally not too concerned about the BNP gaining strength, they won't have the power to do any damage and it should shock the mainstream parties into actually doing something.
Combined with UKIP in the MEP places however, they may be a little more to worry about though I don't know how the EUP works well enough to judge.
Even this may be a good thing, while the EU is incredibly important to the UK, it is ridiculously powerful and is even less accountable than our parliament, its possible UKIP/BNP strength may force the government to actually stand up to the EUP on various issues.

 

[Masada]

Like most countries in the world it seems, the UK has no party actually worth voting into government . I can forsee the Tories getting in next time by a landlslide, as the general consensus among voters seems to be:

Seems like it.

I'm personally not too concerned about the BNP gaining strength, they won't have the power to do any damage and it should shock the mainstream parties into actually doing something.

The only person to realize the benefit of having a BNP MP.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Personally I'm happy that Jacqui Smith is going; her views (aside from telling Michael Savage to get lost) are pretty much diametrically opposed to mine.

In what way? It strikes me as unusual to single out a minister in this way. They don't have much room to individually set policy. Ministers generally put forward the views of the government as a whole, and journalists spend their lives trying to figure how the views of individual ministers differ from these views.

 

[Mise]

I think it's time they got rid of Brown and a new leader was appointed. We're due a general election next year, so there's no real harm in bringing it forward 6 or 8 months - and with fresh leadership Labour will probably not be annihilated as badly as they would be with Brown.

It's sad that Brown, who has done some honestly really great things (especially in relation to the financial crisis - he really did save the world, and his policies were adopted across Europe and America), was such a terrible leader of his party. He may be a brilliant politician, but he lacks authority, and is simply not a leader, and that's why Labour has come out of this expenses crisis 100x worse than the Tories. He needs to go. Whether he goes now or after a dismal failure of an election, does it really matter?

 

[Newbunkle]

Awesome. I can't wait for him to go.

 

[IglooDame]

In what way? It strikes me as unusual to single out a minister in this way. They don't have much room to individually set policy. Ministers generally put forward the views of the government as a whole, and journalists spend their lives trying to figure how the views of individual ministers differ from these views.

Perhaps I'm anthropomorphizing it - I'm also acutely conscious of the US Attorney General's views and preferred policies, and I certainly don't claim to have a very clear view of UK politics, but from what I have read in the past she seems to have particularly unlibertarian views regarding national ID cards (and claiming that "people can't wait to get them"), telecom recording/storage, public cameras, cannabis and ecstasy downgrading, DNA sample preservation, holding 'suspected terrorists' for up to 42 days without charging them with any crimes, and outside our ideological differences, having her husband write letters to the editor praising her, expensing his porn flicks, expensing her sister's house, and trying to out-stupid Michael Savage.

If the views I've noted are simply bread-and-butter Labour policies, then so be it (and I'll be that much happier to see Labour out of the majority in your next election), but my sense has been that Mrs. Smith has been more enthusiastic than reluctant about even the most 1984ish elements of it all.

As always, I welcome correction from those better informed than me.

 

[Ghpstage]

Perhaps I'm anthropomorphizing it - I'm also acutely conscious of the US Attorney General's views and preferred policies, and I certainly don't claim to have a very clear view of UK politics, but from what I have read in the past she seems to have particularly unlibertarian views regarding national ID cards (and claiming that "people can't wait to get them"), telecom recording/storage, public cameras, cannabis and ecstasy downgrading, DNA sample preservation, holding 'suspected terrorists' for up to 42 days without charging them with any crimes, and outside our ideological differences, having her husband write letters to the editor praising her, expensing his porn flicks, expensing her sister's house, and trying to out-stupid Michael Savage.

If the views I've noted are simply bread-and-butter Labour policies, then so be it (and I'll be that much happier to see Labour out of the majority in your next election), but my sense has been that Mrs. Smith has been more enthusiastic than reluctant about even the most 1984ish elements of it all.

As always, I welcome correction from those better informed than me.

I believe ID cards have started to be issued.... the house of commons passed it so it is 'bread and butter', as is the 42 day bs. However, on 42 days 1 Conservative, David Davis actually resigned from parliament over it
Many government ministers have spoken enthusiastically of cameras and databases and such and the voting records show it, the UK is living like "1984"

One particularly large area few seem to be concerned with, is where a few laws overlap. Right now the government can have any single person in the UK arrested at will, for 42 days without charge.... and only due to the person owning a book, and soon ID cards will make it easier .
Worse still i'm quite certain they can prosecute anyone in the UK on the law they can arrest anyone on, as it makes possesion of "information useful to terrorists" a crime.

Anyone could be found to have "information useful to terrorists", which is vague enough to encompass chemistry/engineering/maths books, train/bus timetables, OS maps, photographs err phone books... and a near unlimited number of other objects

 

[Brighteye]

she seems to have particularly unlibertarian views

If the views I've noted are simply bread-and-butter Labour policies, then so be it.

As always, I welcome correction from those better informed than me.

It's a bit of both. These are all New Labour policies, which she has presented. The Home Secretary always ends up becoming more right-wing and authoritarian because he deals with the problems that the public cause, and that makes him cynical.
This particular one has perhaps been more easily persuaded by her contacts, such as police officers and the civil servants who have spent their lives dealing with policies to sort out these problems, and has perhaps also adopted these measures more willingly because Labour's massive majority meant that any dissent was less noticeable for her.

 

[IglooDame]

I believe ID cards have started to be issued.... the house of commons passed it so it is 'bread and butter', as is the 42 day bs. However, on 42 days 1 Conservative, David Davis actually resigned from parliament over it
Many government ministers have spoken enthusiastically of cameras and databases and such and the voting records show it, the UK is living like "1984"

One particularly large area few seem to be concerned with, is where a few laws overlap. Right now the government can have any single person in the UK arrested at will, for 42 days without charge.... and only due to the person owning a book, and soon ID cards will make it easier .
Worse still i'm quite certain they can prosecute anyone in the UK on the law they can arrest anyone on, as it makes possesion of "information useful to terrorists" a crime.

Anyone could be found to have "information useful to terrorists", which is vague enough to encompass chemistry/engineering/maths books, train/bus timetables, OS maps, photographs err phone books... and a near unlimited number of other objects

My understanding is that the national ID card scheme has slowed to a near-stop - new workers in two airports will be getting them issued starting later this year, and I think some immigrants as well, but neither will create any sort of critical mass prior to a new Government chucking the entire thing.

 

[lovett]

This particular one has perhaps been more easily persuaded by her contacts, such as police officers and the civil servants who have spent their lives dealing with policies to sort out these problems, and has perhaps also adopted these measures more willingly because Labour's massive majority meant that any dissent was less noticeable for her.

Helped by that fact that she'd completely not up to the job. She showed no real independent identity, mishandled issues (e.g Damian Green) and was a poor administrator. It must be rather easy to pressurise such a person.

Not that it's really her fault. It should have been apparent that she was unsuitable for the office. Gordon Brown should never have appointed her.

 

[IglooDame]

It's a bit of both. These are all New Labour policies, which she has presented. The Home Secretary always ends up becoming more right-wing and authoritarian because he deals with the problems that the public cause, and that makes him cynical.
This particular one has perhaps been more easily persuaded by her contacts, such as police officers and the civil servants who have spent their lives dealing with policies to sort out these problems, and has perhaps also adopted these measures more willingly because Labour's massive majority meant that any dissent was less noticeable for her.

Helped by that fact that she'd completely not up to the job. She showed no real independent identity, mishandled issues (e.g Damian Green) and was a poor administrator. It must be rather easy to pressurise such a person.

Not that it's really her fault. It should have been apparent that she was unsuitable for the office. Gordon Brown should never have appointed her.

Thanks for the insight. In any case, she's about to be past-tense, so whatever dislike I've had for her is no longer an issue in any case.

 

[jessiecat]

First results declared in the English local elections (3 out of 35 results).

Cons gain Bedfordshire (new unitary authority)
Cons hold Lincolnshire (no change)
LibDems gain Bristol city council from no overall control

Total seats
Cons - 131 (+18)
LD - 52 (+1)
Lab - 20 (-23)
Indys - 8( +3)
no BNP or UKIP candidates elected so far

Looks like the massacre has just begun. Much more to follow.

 

[RedRalph]

Fingers crossed. Are Respect running in any wards?

 

[RedRalph]

Geoff Hoon quits as well

 

[GinandTonic]

First results declared in the English local elections (3 out of 35 results).

Cons gain Bedfordshire (new unitary authority)
Cons hold Lincolnshire (no change)
LibDems gain Bristol city council from no overall control

Total seats
Cons - 131 (+18)
LD - 52 (+1)
Lab - 20 (-23)
Indys - 8( +3)
no BNP or UKIP candidates elected so far

Looks like the massacre has just begun. Much more to follow.

Now Lab are -115 councillors down with 98 holding on. Thats losing most of their councillors. Control lost of all 4 of their Councils that have declaired. Bloodbath.

Libs are two councils down to the tories but have picked one up from labour. Poor under the circs but not catastrophic.

Tories are six councils up.

Minor parties are ten councilors up of 1150ish declaired. While the Welsh and Scotts Nationalists are not up for council elections the BNP doesnt seem to have made a charge, or the Greens either. UKIP still a wildcard since they weren't in for most wards.

The council map at the mo for these elections is completely blue bar Bristol

 

[ComradeDavo]

The council map at the mo for these elections is completely blue bar Bristol

Kinda strange as thats the nearest council (where there was an election) on the map to me

Lib Dems on projected 28% of national vote share in council elections. Not bad, 5% above Labour, but still losing seats though

 

[amadeus]

Fingers crossed. Are Respect running in any wards?

You must really want revenge on Britain for conquering Ireland...