bigdog5994
Lady Day
this is where i think you guys are wrong i dont think people go to bullfights to see a bull get tortured
i know people don't go to a dogfight to see 2 dogs get tortured
Bull 1, Pamplona Vacationer 0
- Thread starter Formaldehyde
- Start date
i know people don't go to a dogfight to see 2 dogs get tortured
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
A fair point, but that is an argument against the exploitation of animals in general, not in defence of bloodsports. "And you are lynching negroes", y'know?
Formaldehyde
Both Fair And Balanced
Alright I'll bite. Why do you go to dogfights?
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
Slaves are property.
Do they go for the beer? What is there at these events to see, besides animals subjected to cruelty?
He might be thinking about the fight itself.
Just because something involves pain doesn't make the pain enjoyable. People watch football, but not for the muscle cramps and lactic acid accumulation.
People watch motor racing, but not for the crashes.
People might just watch bullfights, but not for the pain.
Just because something involves pain doesn't make the pain enjoyable. People watch football, but not for the muscle cramps and lactic acid accumulation.
People watch motor racing, but not for the crashes.
People might just watch bullfights, but not for the pain.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
holy king
Deity
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
Killing something isn't the point of football.
Slaves are humans, persons, and thus cannot be slaves and not property.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Ahh, bullfighting thread. Always funny to see a bunch of people discussing on something they have not a clue about. 
Common and mostly valid arguments in these cases (some already exposed here) are:
Pros:
1) The fighting bull is a special race of bulls born to die in the ring dangerous and without any other use. Without bullfinghting there is not fighting bull, or populations would become really scarce to say the least.
2) Fighting bulls are cattle but also are wild animals and needs lots of wild terrain to roam freely along his life with almost not human contact. Which means an important plus for natural ecosystems in Spain and other bull countries, with many species depending on these woods called "dehesas" in Spain (i can say it myself since i live in a fighting bulls zone).
3) Not only fighting bull´s life is better than common cattle life, but also fighting bull death´s is better than common cattle death. Bull has a remote possibility of surviving too and a not so remote possibillity of goring his killer. In fact, there is a real fight in the ring until the end of the bull. It is only that the bullfighter is so well prepared (normally since being a child) that it seems a dance, but anybody not properly trained would be gored in seconds.
4) The aesthetic and cultural thingy.
Cons:
1) Near half a hour of pain, blood, fighting and death. Something the bull surely doesnt like.
2) Bull has a very slim chance of "winning" (winning here means to be indulted. Goring the bullfighter does not mean that the bull survives since it will be killed by the next bullfighter).
3) All is done publicly, so some people gets scandalized.
4) Last and worst: The bullfighter outfit seem gay.
This said i dont find bulfighting specially interesting and would not pay (again) to see a bullfighting. I wouldnt care if someday bullfighting become something of the past. But it must be a natural proccess, not accomplished through forbidding laws to please the prejudices of some prudish people.
Common and mostly valid arguments in these cases (some already exposed here) are:
Pros:
1) The fighting bull is a special race of bulls born to die in the ring dangerous and without any other use. Without bullfinghting there is not fighting bull, or populations would become really scarce to say the least.
2) Fighting bulls are cattle but also are wild animals and needs lots of wild terrain to roam freely along his life with almost not human contact. Which means an important plus for natural ecosystems in Spain and other bull countries, with many species depending on these woods called "dehesas" in Spain (i can say it myself since i live in a fighting bulls zone).
3) Not only fighting bull´s life is better than common cattle life, but also fighting bull death´s is better than common cattle death. Bull has a remote possibility of surviving too and a not so remote possibillity of goring his killer. In fact, there is a real fight in the ring until the end of the bull. It is only that the bullfighter is so well prepared (normally since being a child) that it seems a dance, but anybody not properly trained would be gored in seconds.
4) The aesthetic and cultural thingy.
Cons:
1) Near half a hour of pain, blood, fighting and death. Something the bull surely doesnt like.
2) Bull has a very slim chance of "winning" (winning here means to be indulted. Goring the bullfighter does not mean that the bull survives since it will be killed by the next bullfighter).
3) All is done publicly, so some people gets scandalized.
4) Last and worst: The bullfighter outfit seem gay.
This said i dont find bulfighting specially interesting and would not pay (again) to see a bullfighting. I wouldnt care if someday bullfighting become something of the past. But it must be a natural proccess, not accomplished through forbidding laws to please the prejudices of some prudish people.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
About the guy killed in Pamplona, Well, it is sad by the guy himself and his family, but people run the bulls looking for danger, adrenaline and such. I mean, bulls are there to gore the runners and runners are there to be gored by bulls. Sometime somebody will die. He is neither the first nor the last. It is part of the fiesta.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
Slaves cannot be slaves? Nice reasoning.
Please explain how bullfighting is not cruelty. I would like to have a clue.
Please explain how bullfighting is not cruelty. I would like to have a clue.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Did i say it is not cruelty? It can be cruelty, yes. However cruelty is not the objective. There is not pleasure in inflicting pain to the bull, in fact it is the other way around. For instance, when the bullfighter is uncapable of killing the bull correctly it can become a really cruel spectacle so bullfighters who kill quickly are the most respected.
i have never watched a grand prix NOT hoping for crashes only.
Maybe the point of bullfighting is not to entertain through enjoyment of others' pain.
Just as football inevitably leads to lactic acid, bullfighting inevitably leads to bulls' pain.
I don't see why you think that the enjoyment of bullfighting comes from enjoying torture, but the point of anything else that involves pain is not to enjoy the pain.
If it's the cruelty of killing the animal that's a problem, slaughterhouses would be a better target for you, since they kill far more animals, which suffer great distress as they smell the death ahead.
salty mud
Deity
Oh come now. Lactic acid build up is nothing to the pain these bulls go through. What else do people go to bullfights to see? The hints in the name - to see the bulls fight. A rather onesided fight, as 99% of the time the bull will die, painfully and humilliatingly. Stop picking bones about lactic acid build-up and grazed knee crap.
LucyDuke
staring at the clock
You said people have no clue what they are talking about. They are talking about cruelty. Either there is no cruelty, or they perhaps have a clue.
What is there to the "sport" of bullfighting that is not directly related to fighting the bull? How is fighting the bull not the point?
Humans cannot be slaves, being persons. Animals can be slaves.
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