C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[CIVPlayer8]

the militia units where given free under the charity civic if you build a farm at the medival era. but why is this feature apply to the charity tech ? i think it is a remnant of a time where there wasnt any military civic. the feature would better fit with the consripton ore vasalage military civic. sorry for my bad english

I'am with you on this. I don't like it being Charity, so maybe we could move it to another civic? Not a Military one, but a society one?
Regarding Slavery, I guess we'll just ask the people.

Would you guys like to see Slavery return as a civic, or the slave specialist be allowed under any circumstance, allowing you to choose? So you can have "Slaves" under Serf Labor, but they'll basically be Serfs?​

 

[JosEPh_II]

The only way I'd ever like to see Slavery as a Civic would be for it to actually get some SERIOUS nerfing. But that just does Not happen. Civics have changed 4+ times now since C2C was started and as a Civic Slavery has been The OP Civic every time. If the AI won't leave it then there's your answer to the OP question.

So I'm For the other option.

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

Personally I never use it currently due to the negatives working so badly against my own playstyle, so I guess I'd prefer it as a non-civic so that I could actually make use of the mechanic (but it does need limiting in effectiveness especially if it isn't bound up with all the negative effects of a civic like it is now)

 

[Hydromancerx]

I would like there to be "Slave Labor" and "Serf Labor" but Serf Labor can have a "Slave" in the form of "Serfs". They should probably work a bit differently than Slaves too.

 

[LumenAngel]

Would you guys like to see Slavery return as a civic, or the slave specialist be allowed under any circumstance, allowing you to choose? So you can have "Slaves" under Serf Labor, but they'll basically be Serfs?​

[/SIZE]​

For me slavery is a category of civics.
The word éslave" is the same for agyptian and roman slavery 2500 yr ago, for slave in America, for slave in muslim society, for slave in ocenian culture, but they are all different

Slave can be prisonners forced to work, for anyone. They can be used only by the states, as a property of the states (and so harm a slave is harming the country!). They can be very poor farmes/workers, forces to give anything to the Lord (serf). Strong wan just use the weak as he wants (prehisric era, mainly). Slave can come only from strangers (like black used in USA). Or only from people of others faith (like muslmis did). They can bu use only in mine or plantation, or can be used in army (mamluk)
All of this can make différent civics, with different bonus/malus from slave.

You can even have Clone slavery, Alien slavery or Slave from past as futurist civics.​

 

[Hydromancerx]

I am thinking we should apply some Pollution properties to some of the civics. something like ...

Green (Economic)
-10 Air Pollution Per Turn
-5 Water Pollution Per Turn

Green Agriculture (Agriculture)
-5 Air Pollution Per Turn
-10 Water Pollution Per Turn

Corporate Agriculture (Agriculture)
+5 Air Pollution Per Turn
+10 Water Pollution Per Turn

What do you think and what code do you add to do it?

 

[AIAndy]

What do you think and what code do you add to do it?

Same code as you use on buildings except that you also specify what it applies to relative to the player (as civics apply to the player) with
<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_CITY</GameObjectType>
<RelationType>RELATION_ASSOCIATED</RelationType>

Mind though that the AI is currently blind to civic property manipulators.

 

[Il Principe]

I am thinking we should apply some Pollution properties to some of the civics. something like ...

Green (Economic)
-10 Air Pollution Per Turn
-5 Water Pollution Per Turn

Green Agriculture (Agriculture)
-5 Air Pollution Per Turn
-10 Water Pollution Per Turn

Corporate Agriculture (Agriculture)
+5 Air Pollution Per Turn
+10 Water Pollution Per Turn

What do you think and what code do you add to do it?

Apart from the blind spot of the AI Koshling mentioned I apreciate this idea. Going green should give you better enviromental properties

 

[LumenAngel]

I am thinking we should apply some Pollution properties to some of the civics. something like ...

Green (Economic)
-10 Air Pollution Per Turn
-5 Water Pollution Per Turn

Green Agriculture (Agriculture)
-5 Air Pollution Per Turn
-10 Water Pollution Per Turn

Corporate Agriculture (Agriculture)
+5 Air Pollution Per Turn
+10 Water Pollution Per Turn

What do you think and what code do you add to do it?

I dont like the idea if civics giving bonus/malus to pollution/crime/flammability/the like.
I think it's the role of the "special building" of the civics to give this.
Fascism dont decrease Crime. It's some building enable with fscism who reduce crime.

 

[wolfensoul9]

I dont like the idea if civics giving bonus/malus to pollution/crime/flammability/the like.
I think it's the role of the "special building" of the civics to give this.
Fascism dont decrease Crime. It's some building enable with fscism who reduce crime.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

A government cannot simply say, "We are now a green society", and expect to see the pollutants in the air vanish. They must make physical efforts that are REPRESENTATIVE of "being in a green society". In civ terms, this means buildings.

The current setup of civics allowing certain kind of buildings is perfectly fine, in my opinion.

 

[Koshling]

Apart from the blind spot of the AI Koshling mentioned I apreciate this idea. Going green should give you better enviromental properties

Forgive my ignorance, but do water and air pollution currently have any in-game effect (I realize they WILL at some point, so this is more an FYI point, than changing the in-principal arguments in this thread)

 

[LumenAngel]

Forgive my ignorance, but do water and air pollution currently have any in-game effect (I realize they WILL at some point, so this is more an FYI point, than changing the in-principal arguments in this thread)

yes, there are some auto-building "Pollution" building, giving unhealth, unhappy and some food malus

 

[AIAndy]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

A government cannot simply say, "We are now a green society", and expect to see the pollutants in the air vanish. They must make physical efforts that are REPRESENTATIVE of "being in a green society". In civ terms, this means buildings.

The current setup of civics allowing certain kind of buildings is perfectly fine, in my opinion.

Civics in Civ also represent the mindset of people so in a green society people might look more after their energy usage and save more which in turn leads to less air pollutants.

 

[Kreatur]

the civic green includes anti pollution laws ( a law that factories and cars must have exhaust gas filters for example ) so yes it should reduce pollution

 

[ls612]

Forgive my ignorance, but do water and air pollution currently have any in-game effect (I realize they WILL at some point, so this is more an FYI point, than changing the in-principal arguments in this thread)

In addition to what was posted above, IIRC too much pollution in the water will lead to the water becoming fouled with some features which subtract yields.

 

[Koshling]

In addition to what was posted above, IIRC too much pollution in the water will lead to the water becoming fouled with some features which subtract yields.

Is that currently the case, and if so where does it show up in the UI when it happens? (and is it realistically avoidable?, in which case the AI will need to understand it too)

 

[wolfensoul9]

Civics in Civ also represent the mindset of people so in a green society people might look more after their energy usage and save more which in turn leads to less air pollutants.

Eh, alright. I guess I'll concede that point. I guess I was too demanding of only wanting physical, tangible things actually having tangible effects. I suppose you are right in that civics represent more than just what the government says it is characterized by.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Is that currently the case, and if so where does it show up in the UI when it happens? (and is it realistically avoidable?, in which case the AI will need to understand it too)

Yes if you look in the Special buildings you can see what types of Pollution you have. Like the other properties you can see how high your pollution is. Likewise some buildings can reduce pollution. However there are many more buildings that add than there are that reduce. Likewise different terrain features will help reduce such as Jungles, Rivers, Oceans, Oasis and Mangroves, Swamps and Coral all help reduce water pollution. Forests, Bamboo, Savanna, Cactus and Kelp all help reduce air pollution. Some features like Volcanos increase air pollution and Tar Pits can increase pollution as well. Some improvements like Farms can add to water pollution while Factories can increase air pollution. Unlike crime or flammability, most of your control is based on terrain and terrain features rather than on what buildings or units you build.

I have been thing about introducing some Ecologist type units that can help reduce air and water pollution. But those would not be introduced until techs like Wilderness Conservation and Ecology. I will post more on them in the new unit thread.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The more units needed the less far I get into a game. I just have a limit on how many units I can keep track of comfortably.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The more units needed the less far I get into a game. I just have a limit on how many units I can keep track of comfortably.

Well at some point we will have to add a bunch of Galactic Era units, such as spacecraft. What are you going to do then?