christos200
Never tell me the odds
I do not care what the Pope thinks anyway and if I want, I send my Air Force to bomb the hell out of him.
Capto Iugulum Background Thread
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
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Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,285
If you didn't care, than why did you ask the question regarding Papal-Burgundian relations? You know, considering this, and the fact its the second time you have stated you don't care what the Pope thinks, I think you do actually care, because you are concerned as to what he (or rather I) could fiddle with in Burgundy. A concern I would guess is itching your neurons as nation after nation turns to moralism. At any rate, its always those who state they don't care who actually do. Those who don't actually care don't bother saying anything at all.
Oh, and Il Papa's airforce naturally would be prepared to repel any aeronautical incursions by Burgundy, just as its diplomatic corps would in such an instance happily invoke the guarantees of protection from third party aggression that exist with Italy and Germany to ensure that Burgundy remembers that actions have consequences.
Oh, and Il Papa's airforce naturally would be prepared to repel any aeronautical incursions by Burgundy, just as its diplomatic corps would in such an instance happily invoke the guarantees of protection from third party aggression that exist with Italy and Germany to ensure that Burgundy remembers that actions have consequences.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
Its less this particular war and more Brazil's continual intervention. Whichever way you look at it, Brazil has fought a hell of a lot more wars than Burgundy. There was the American Civil War, the Pacific War, Africa...
Out of curiosity, what was the Pope's position on decolonisation? Does the catholic church support self-determination for African (and not necessarily Catholic) peoples in this timeline?
christos200
Never tell me the odds
I guess declaring yourself to be Emperor is more bad that killing millions in tens of wars.
Jehoshua
Catholic
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2009
- Messages
- 7,285
The goodwill that exists between Brazil and the Holy See is relatively recent (IIRC its leaders were actually excommunicated for a while, for declaring war on the Papal States in support of Naples during the Great War era) and so its earlier interventions and wars weigh relatively little on the Papal mind since it sees its commitment to Catholicism in political and public life as a turning point that differentiates the current Brazilian government from previous history. You could say the Holy See is giving it the benefit of the doubt, and that so far Brazil hasn't done anything to break that initial goodwill grant that occurred.
As to the Catholic Church's position on decolonisation, it doesn't have one on the idea generally. It obviously condemns immoral practices on the part of colonising authorities, or those forces which seek their overthrow, but it sees colonisation as a morally neutral institution subtracting other factors, with decolonisation being an entirely prudential decision in any given case, with any one decolonisation movements legitimacy being determined on a case by case basis based on the movements nature and ideals, and also upon the manner of rule the colonising power has engaged in.
As to understand the Holy See on this issue... its rather complex to say. Firstly you need to understand that It doesn't really see the world in terms of competing nations, or in terms of "national rights" or identities. It sees it in terms of the Catholic Church, and that which is outside the Catholic Church. The Church is one, universal and a singular society, and it is within the context of a totality that the Holy See considers Catholic states, and movements, political ideologies and so forth that touch upon the faithful. It does not see a separation between events in one place, and events in another, but rather considers them within the conception that what afflicts one part of the body affects the whole. As to what is purely outside of the Catholic world, the Church addresses it within the framework of love of God and love of neighbour. Ergo, it sees those outside of the faith as requiring conversion first for their ultimate good and out of love of God, and from that same love of God it also seeks their good temporally and so acts as an agent in charity, in conflict resolution and generally when addressing political and social questions.
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@Christos: It has been said that the Catholic Church would rather all humanity die in uttermost agony, and the entire world be destroyed than see one more soul than would otherwise be the case go to hell. We can deduce from that, that Il Papa here considers war, in certain circumstances, to be just when it fulfils certain moral conditions (just war theory) and serves the greater good as the Church sees it. Death is not a "bad" in and of itself to the Church, death is only bad when the individual to which it occurs is in a state of unrepentant mortal sin and thus consigned to hell. A holy death however, where the soul is in a state of grace is no bad thing.
We can also say that Il Papa sees the past in terms of the relationship of past actions in the present and into the future and how they affect the Church, and in the context of forgiveness and repentance, rather than in a purely vindictive way that seeks satisfaction for every past sin. So as I said, although the Papacy has not forgotten the grievances it has with Brazil, it has for now at least forgiven them due to said states current commitment to repentance and Catholicity. Burgundy on the other hand has shown little to no repentance for actions which are much more recent than Brazils offences (and which still have an impact in the present in the case of the specific offence you mention), and continues policies that have implications that deeply concern the Holy See (war with fellow Catholics in France?, continued condescension towards the faith?)
As to the Catholic Church's position on decolonisation, it doesn't have one on the idea generally. It obviously condemns immoral practices on the part of colonising authorities, or those forces which seek their overthrow, but it sees colonisation as a morally neutral institution subtracting other factors, with decolonisation being an entirely prudential decision in any given case, with any one decolonisation movements legitimacy being determined on a case by case basis based on the movements nature and ideals, and also upon the manner of rule the colonising power has engaged in.
As to understand the Holy See on this issue... its rather complex to say. Firstly you need to understand that It doesn't really see the world in terms of competing nations, or in terms of "national rights" or identities. It sees it in terms of the Catholic Church, and that which is outside the Catholic Church. The Church is one, universal and a singular society, and it is within the context of a totality that the Holy See considers Catholic states, and movements, political ideologies and so forth that touch upon the faithful. It does not see a separation between events in one place, and events in another, but rather considers them within the conception that what afflicts one part of the body affects the whole. As to what is purely outside of the Catholic world, the Church addresses it within the framework of love of God and love of neighbour. Ergo, it sees those outside of the faith as requiring conversion first for their ultimate good and out of love of God, and from that same love of God it also seeks their good temporally and so acts as an agent in charity, in conflict resolution and generally when addressing political and social questions.
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@Christos: It has been said that the Catholic Church would rather all humanity die in uttermost agony, and the entire world be destroyed than see one more soul than would otherwise be the case go to hell. We can deduce from that, that Il Papa here considers war, in certain circumstances, to be just when it fulfils certain moral conditions (just war theory) and serves the greater good as the Church sees it. Death is not a "bad" in and of itself to the Church, death is only bad when the individual to which it occurs is in a state of unrepentant mortal sin and thus consigned to hell. A holy death however, where the soul is in a state of grace is no bad thing.
We can also say that Il Papa sees the past in terms of the relationship of past actions in the present and into the future and how they affect the Church, and in the context of forgiveness and repentance, rather than in a purely vindictive way that seeks satisfaction for every past sin. So as I said, although the Papacy has not forgotten the grievances it has with Brazil, it has for now at least forgiven them due to said states current commitment to repentance and Catholicity. Burgundy on the other hand has shown little to no repentance for actions which are much more recent than Brazils offences (and which still have an impact in the present in the case of the specific offence you mention), and continues policies that have implications that deeply concern the Holy See (war with fellow Catholics in France?, continued condescension towards the faith?)
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
We're number 1!
Though the pope who let the world implode would probably not be going to heaven.
Jehoshua, isn't it better for the Church that a Catholic or at least Christian country govern non-Christian regions? Unless said country is anti-Catholic in nature and is ruining the Church's reputation (which of course, means it's not Catholic, as per my requirement) wouldn't colonization always be preferable for the Church? I'd imagine that on the whole, colonization must be seen much more nicely in the Church, as it has allowed the conversion of so many people of Africa that otherwise might have violently ejected missionaries from their communities.
TheMeanestGuest
Warlord
Reposting by request.
TheMeanestGuest said:
Florida did possess numerous and sizeable superplantations, but the American Crisis caused a major shift in demographics. Most black citizens left or were encouraged to leave, and have since settled down in the UPRA or Jacksonia. A more traditional market system has emerged, primarily due to greater mechanization of agriculture, and a shift from a agricultural economy to one heavily based on petroleum. Slavery itself was officially abolished, but it had disintegrated before hand, making it more or less irrelevant as it was.
SouthernKing
crickety cricket
lurker's comment: that awkward moment when you see a poster on another board named "Scipio Africanus" and it takes you a full five minutes to realize he's not actually named after the founder of the UPRA
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
A reference map for people who have a hard time figuring who's who in Africa:
Blacked out areas are obviously colonial or non-African countries.
Blacked out areas are obviously colonial or non-African countries.
Circuit
Writing Letters
The United States engaged in a program around the time of the Great War and prior to the Civil War that purchased and liberated slaves from their owners. The militarist government pursued this program because of growing international outrage. Florida basically finished that program within its own borders, but there weren't that many African Americans to begin with by the time of the Civil War.
. He started his military career in 1879 in a Hasimite coastal artillery regiment, and has risen to the rank of a divisional staff officer by 1899. Fluent in Arabic and Persian, he has participated in every conflict the Turkish Sultanate has been involved in, and now enjoys reputation of the best military mind of modern Turkey. Surprisingly, unlike many members of the old guard, he seems to be aware of the changes that conventional warfare is struggling with now. Finally, with the appointment of his army comrade Zekai Apaydın as a prime-minister, Fevzi Çakmak may finally push through so needed military reforms he has been advocating for recently.
Lokki242
Emperor
High Shahansha Abdul al-Din of the Shahdom of Iran, (b.1880)
Nazir al-Din, son of Abdul, heir to the title of High Shahansha, (b.1910)
Khorshid al-Jafari, First Adviser to the High Shahansha, (b.1886)
Nayeb Sherazi, Second Adviser to the High Shahansha, (b. 1869)
Gholamali Bayandor, High Commander of the Iranian Royal Guard (b. 1898)
Abdol Teymourtash, Iranian Economic Minister, (b. 1883)
Spoiler :
Nazir al-Din, son of Abdul, heir to the title of High Shahansha, (b.1910)
Spoiler :
Khorshid al-Jafari, First Adviser to the High Shahansha, (b.1886)
Spoiler :
Nayeb Sherazi, Second Adviser to the High Shahansha, (b. 1869)
Spoiler :
Gholamali Bayandor, High Commander of the Iranian Royal Guard (b. 1898)
Spoiler :
Abdol Teymourtash, Iranian Economic Minister, (b. 1883)
Spoiler :
Good news everyone! Phase 1 of the wiki has been completed. All updates up to the current point have at last been added in. Not all yet have maps, as it will take some time to go through and put everything in imgur and edit them in. That's possibly on the menu for Saturday while I delay updating to give people more time to get orders in.
Now, I'd really like to get some more contributions from ya'll. This can be for you own nations, and I welcome their inclusion into the wiki, but I'd really like to start filling out the NPC nations in order to help people make decisions when joining the NES.
Here is the link for the pages that need entries the most. Try to contribute, and I'd recommend looking up the page Justo did for the UPRA to get a good idea of the format I'm looking to setup for various nations. That link is below:
http://captoiugulum.wikispot.org/United_Proletarist_Republics_of_America
Now, I'd really like to get some more contributions from ya'll. This can be for you own nations, and I welcome their inclusion into the wiki, but I'd really like to start filling out the NPC nations in order to help people make decisions when joining the NES.
Here is the link for the pages that need entries the most. Try to contribute, and I'd recommend looking up the page Justo did for the UPRA to get a good idea of the format I'm looking to setup for various nations. That link is below:
http://captoiugulum.wikispot.org/United_Proletarist_Republics_of_America
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I'll begin adding information to Brazil's article today.
TerrisH
Mischief?
Been meaning to start the swiss entry. hmm.. you might consider makeing a Template for the nations wiki entries. UPRA's entry looks like a good base.. might do it myself if I figure out how.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
I would have begun if I could figure out how this damned wiki thing works. D:
TerrisH
Mischief?
I got the template ready, but I can't figure out how to create a new page. will keep trying to figure it out.
You should be able to create a new page just by clicking on the link to the uncreated page. It should prompt such a thing.
EDIT: I have now added a quick template for new nations.
EDIT: I have now added a quick template for new nations.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I've started on the Brazil article. By the way, EQ, there was an Empress in there you know. 
You killed Isabel I in 1904.
You killed Isabel I in 1904.
