Capto Iugulum

[Lord of Elves]

To: Allied Territories of America
From: Vinland

We strongly advise you to recognize the legitimacy of this Second Union, so as to bring peace back to the continent as quickly and cleanly as possible. What justifications can you provide that your government has a greater degree of legitimacy than that of the New Democratic Government forming in the east, especially with the issue of the proletarist states roiling in your own nation's hinterland?

It is only through proletarism that true democracy will be achieved anywhere, even in America. We urge both the Allied Territories of America and the Second Union to lay down their arms immediately and join their fellows in the brotherhood of shared labor, achievement and struggle.

Clearly this is the only realistic answer to the issue of reunification of the United States. You'll thank us later.

 

[Nintz]

From: Aztlan
To: The World

Aztlan would like to announce that, after negotiation, we will be joining the Pacific Concord alliance.

 

[GamezRule]

To: Allied Territories of America
From: Vinland

We strongly advise you to recognize the legitimacy of this Second Union, so as to bring peace back to the continent as quickly and cleanly as possible. What justifications can you provide that your government has a greater degree of legitimacy than that of the New Democratic Government forming in the east, especially with the issue of the proletarist states roiling in your own nation's hinterland?

To: Kingdom of Vinland
From: United States of America

The Charleston government had become a puppet to foreign powers by the time of the Treaty of Washington. The Albany government ever had any legitimacy to begin with. It is true that we were de jure under the command of the Charleston government, but ultimately, our loyalties are with the United States of America. When the Charleston government failed to look out for the best interest of the United States, we were left with no choice but to declare it illegitimate and form a new government to act on behalf of the Union.

We also are unable to accept a return to the 1787 Constitution, as the document was weak and ineffective when it was in effect, and was unable to provide a stable Union. We also accept the failings of the second constitution in this goal, and, upon cessation of hostilities, we have every intention of establishing a new constitution, that will fix the issues that made the Union unsustainable in it's previous establishments.

 

[Blue Bacon 3]

From: Aztlan
To: The World

Aztlan would like to announce that, after negotiation, we will be joining the Pacific Concord alliance.

Signed,
~ King Juan I of the Kingdom of Peru


OOC: Florida and Aztlan were swapped in the update. They are now both members of the Concord by thread posts and Florida will be entered again via update in 1916, thus hopefully rendering the clerical issue moot.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

To: Allied Territories of America
From: Vinland

What proposals do you have for your new constitution? And is your perception of the illegitimacy of this Eastern government so strong that you will run the risk of allowing your proletarist rebels to defeat both of your factions, as you quibble over what amount to relatively minor differences?

More to the point, what has led you to view the Second Union as an illegitimate government? Perhaps if these concerns could be addressed, then peace could be achieved.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

For those lookingfor a fantasy kick, I have spent the past few days finishing up touches on my warcraft inspired NES: Orcs and Humans.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=473886

 

[Azale]

To: Kingdom of Vinland
From: United States of America

The Charleston government had become a puppet to foreign powers by the time of the Treaty of Washington. The Albany government ever had any legitimacy to begin with. It is true that we were de jure under the command of the Charleston government, but ultimately, our loyalties are with the United States of America. When the Charleston government failed to look out for the best interest of the United States, we were left with no choice but to declare it illegitimate and form a new government to act on behalf of the Union.

We also are unable to accept a return to the 1787 Constitution, as the document was weak and ineffective when it was in effect, and was unable to provide a stable Union. We also accept the failings of the second constitution in this goal, and, upon cessation of hostilities, we have every intention of establishing a new constitution, that will fix the issues that made the Union unsustainable in it's previous establishments.

For the purpose of showing the strength of our argument to the world, these points will be addressed in full:

"The Charleston government had become a puppet to foreign powers by the time of the Treaty of Washington. The Albany government ever had any legitimacy to begin with."

If lack of foreign support is the great boon of legitimacy, then the original United States as well as the militarist government were both illegitimate. This can be applied to many other contemporary nations as well. The US would admire this audacity if it were not so vacuous of all logic. The failings of the Denver government to acquire friends and allies is its flaw, not its virtue.

"It is true that we were de jure under the command of the Charleston government, but ultimately, our loyalties are with the United States of America. When the Charleston government failed to look out for the best interest of the United States, we were left with no choice but to declare it illegitimate and form a new government to act on behalf of the Union."

The United States of America still exists and you would trample it underfoot for the vanity of a few generals. The best interest of the US is peace and reunification. It must also be remembered that the "we" here does not include the vast majority of the people. There are no elections in the Wallace Despotism.

"We also are unable to accept a return to the 1787 Constitution, as the document was weak and ineffective when it was in effect, and was unable to provide a stable Union. We also accept the failings of the second constitution in this goal, and, upon cessation of hostilities, we have every intention of establishing a new constitution, that will fix the issues that made the Union unsustainable in it's previous establishments."

The lack of any nuanced criticism as well as the quick decision to reject all offers of cease fire or discussion with the USA makes this point a farce. The Wallace Despotism has refused a cessation of hostilities and instead shames itself by pretending to represent the American people.

 

[TerrisH]

To the Confederation
From the Swiss
We wish to inquire about the possibility of setting up a duel citizenship program between our two nations, to facilitate the border crossing of those citizens that consider themselves part of Both our nations. we hope to strengthen our ties with you and our fellow Swiss within your nation, and bring new prosperity to both our people.

 

[spryllino]

To the Swiss Free State
From the Confederation

We are not interested in loosening border controls or in offering dual citizenship, on account of security concerns. If the good people of eastern Switzerland desire to have closer ties with their millions of compatriots, then they are quite welcome to join them within the Republic of Switzerland within the Confederation.

 

[Blue Bacon 3]

Military Casualties in the Former USA in EPs and lives (divide by 3k for MP), 1915

Spoiler :

Confederation: 9 EPs, 24.000

Jacksonia: 0 EPs, 0
Florida: 60 EPs, 45.000
ATA: 93 EPs, 99.000
USA: 70 EPs, 36.000
UAR: 93 EPs, 162.000
Total Non-Proletarist Successor State Expenditure: 316 EPs, 342.000 casualties

Colombia: 4 EPs, 6.000
Brazil: 20 EPs, 12.000
Paraguay: 30 EPs, 18.000
Uruguay: 20 EPs, 12.000
Argentina: 21 EPs, 18.000
- South American Coalition Total Expenditure: 95 EPs, 66.000 casualties

Appalachia Proles: 2 EPs, 12.000
Tennessee Proles: 16 EPs, 96.000
Mississippi Proles: 29 EPs, 180.000
- Proletarian Total Expenditure: 47 EPs, 288.000 casualties
(My impression is it's an anti-slavery or racial war just as much as it is political (that they adopted proletarianism as the solution to their existing beliefs), but I'm just going with 'proles' since it rolls off well and isn't worth it just for statistics. )

(Sorry to those who prefer commas for thousand markers, I just feel they ruin the visual syntax with lists that use commas outside of numbers.)

 

[Gem Hound]

To: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland
From: Brittany
How much would it cost to buy the designs for the Plymouth-type Fighter Triplane in a year or two from now?

(Sorry to those who prefer commas for thousand markers, I just feel they ruin the visual syntax with lists that use commas outside of numbers.)

OOC: In Canada, we are supposed to use spaces, not commas or periods.
100 000

 

[TheLastJacobite]

To UK, Italy
From Russia

As Italy has the best medical facilities in the world, we will gladly accept their aid in helping to prevent another devastating year of deaths to the flu

 

[bestshot9]

To: Italy
From: The Roman Empire

With the completion of the reconstruction of Constantinople, now the world's most modern city, we would request the assistance of Italy's best doctors and surgeons in creating Rome's most modern medical facility and school so that Roman can help the Balkan states and Anatolia combat the spread of this deadly plague which now ravages our continent?

 

[Nailix]

To: Russia, UK
From: Italy

Then it is settled? We shall bring our brightest minds together and find a cure, or at least slow, this deadly plague?

To: The Roman Empire
From: Italy

When we discover a cure or any way to slow the plague we will send our doctors to aid your nation and the surrounding. Until then we need our doctors to focus on developing a cure for the disease.

 

[GamezRule]

If lack of foreign support is the great boon of legitimacy, then the original United States as well as the militarist government were both illegitimate. This can be applied to many other contemporary nations as well. The US would admire this audacity if it were not so vacuous of all logic. The failings of the Denver government to acquire friends and allies is its flaw, not its virtue.

Legitimacy is not gained by foreign support. The Charleston government no longer had the capacity to lead when it coerced by Franco-Burgundy to forced liberalization. Had the Charleston government continued to function as a sovereign entity when it signed the Treaty of Washington, then we would consider the treaty legitimate and also agree to it.

The United States of America still exists and you would trample it underfoot for the vanity of a few generals. The best interest of the US is peace and reunification. It must also be remembered that the "we" here does not include the vast majority of the people. There are no elections in the Wallace Despotism.

The United States does in deed exist, though currently it has been exiled to Denver. As the Government of the United States has ceased to exist upon the Treaty of Washington (though sovereignty was lost long before), we are forming a new federal government, which, though currently led by General Wallace, will be handed over to an elected government as soon as we can hold elections in the territory still under the direct control of the United States. We also have every intention of holding a constitutional convention, so that we may write a third constitution that shall address the problems found in the previous constitutions.

The lack of any nuanced criticism as well as the quick decision to reject all offers of cease fire or discussion with the USA makes this point a farce. The Wallace Despotism has refused a cessation of hostilities and instead shames itself by pretending to represent the American people.

This is an outright lie. We have never refused cessation of hostilities. In fact, we offer the leaders of the rebellion a three year ceasefire so that we may defeat the common threat that is the Negro proles along the Mississippi, and so that a new Federal government may be elected and a third constitutional convention be held.

 

[spryllino]

OOC: Oh my god. Does no-one have any notion that taking a nation and - just in order to hold onto them - making them do precisely the opposite of what they might be expected to do in any sort of sane world on incredibly specious pretexts rather than even trying to affect the course of negotiations - is basically a sort of incredibly annoying, pointless and selfish vandalising of the entire point of NESing? I despair sometimes.

/goes back to playing patience

 

[Lord_Iggy]

OOC: Although it does simulate the growth of megalomania in individuals quite well. I imagine that Wallace might have started off with more altruistic goals, and then gradually become more enamoured with his power, until when the moment of truth came, he failed, and now will see the war within the Disunited States continue for several more years.

 

[Grandkhan]

OOC: To be fair, the ATA was basically the US military government of the territories banding together in the face of being cut off from the Feds in Charleston. Joining the UAR in democracy would be an abandonment of the basic principles of the military. I mean, yeah, the Federal government is joining the UAR out of sheer pragmatism, to hold off the Proletarists, but Wallace isn't fighting the proles, so he doesn't have that perspective. If anything, Wallace's main enemy is the UAR.

Its really not that out there for Wallace to refuse to join the UAR in favour of bringing military government back to the Union.

 

[GamezRule]

OOC: Oh my god. Does no-one have any notion that taking a nation and - just in order to hold onto them - making them do precisely the opposite of what they might be expected to do in any sort of sane world on incredibly specious pretexts rather than even trying to affect the course of negotiations - is basically a sort of incredibly annoying, pointless and selfish vandalising of the entire point of NESing? I despair sometimes.

/goes back to playing patience

OOC: EQ's the one that told me that staying independent is IC, so don't go there.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Eeh... EQ says lots of things.

Personally, I think either course of action could be seen as IC.