CBob02 Jaguar Conquest

[AutomatedTeller]

the other advantage of agri is you get pottery right off, so you can build a granary.

someone hit f10 and tell us whether you are dealing with hoplites, numidians, legionaries, impis or enkidu!! any of those might cause a serious problem for the hordes of jaguars that will soon be swarming over the world like army ants, the bite of each barely registering but in total, certain death for all who pass by!!

 

[Norton II]

None of those, but we might have to deal with legionaries and Gallic swordsmen eventually:

 

[CommandoBob]

I just downloaded the CivIII Combat Calculator in the Utilites/Tools section here.

If I understand the results, a 1 HP vJag attacking an unfortified 2HP vSpear in a grassland will win about 14% of the time. Which means to insure a win over such a unit, we'll need about 6 vJags to take down one 1 vSpear. And that number goes up to around 20 vJags to take out a vLegionaire or vPike.

I didn't think the odds would be so long.

But then again, on second thought:

C-3PO: Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1.
Han Solo: Never tell me the odds.

 

[Lboogie13]

I always settle at the first place I start out at so I'm probably not the best one to chip in on opening moves!

Legionaires will be tough. I can't say I've done any combat calculators but my gut and experience have shown those are stubborn s.o.b.'s. They just don't want to die.

 

[CommandoBob]

Roster (in sign up order):

CommandoBob - UP!
Phaedo - on deck
CivActuary - warming up
TimBentley
Norton II
Lboogie13

I'l try to play tonight. Build our capital where we stand, irrigate the flood plain, make jag, jag and settler. Explore. Research at 0%.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Since you're agricultural, I say work the forest furs first. (You'll still grow in 10 turns).

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, basically, a jag vs. spear should win a little fewer than 1/3 of the battles.

If you figure that defeating a vet spear will mean taking 5 HP, you need 15 battles or so, which is 4 vet jags (assume that the vet spear will get a promotion at some point) on average.

6 seems reasonable, with retreats.

That said, you will have several advantages.

1) Lots of elite jags
2) fewer losses, cause you are fast

Zulu might have hurt yoiu guy the most, cause you can't retreat.

 

[CommandoBob]

0 4000 BC

And so we are off, after a rather brief preturn discussion.
We'll settle where we are, irrigate the flood plain to get more people, build an rJag, rJag and settler.


I don't want to call our capital Tenochtitlan, even though I can now spell it with ease. Aztecs Anonymous has a nice ring, but I used that in CBob01. Plus, this time we are the Aztecs. Would like to have something with that 'AZ' sound and/or look. Aspiring doesn't seem to fit; Asymmetrical and Asymptotic are cool words and have the right sound but don't communicate the right message. I give up racking my brains and open up a dictionary. Voila! I find the name of our capital city.

We found Aztec Azaleas where we stand, rJag in 8, grow in 7.
We have a goody hut not far away.
Worker01 moves onto the flood plain.

Science and happy sliders to 0%.

I point us towards MapMaking, which means we must learn our letters (Alphabet) and penmanship (Writing) first.
​

[IBT]

Our World 4000 BC

1 3950 BC

Worker01 irrigates.
​

[IBT]

2 3900 BC

zzz
​

[IBT]

3 3850 BC

zzzz
​

[IBT]

4 3800 BC

zzzzz
​

[IBT]

5 3750 BC

Worker01 roads the flood plain.
​

[IBT]

6 3700 BC

zz
​

[IBT]
Aztec Azaleas rJag -> rJag, 4 turns.

7 3650 BC

Rename rJag to Sneaky Jag. Sneaky Jag will explore to our southwest, watching the goody hut. Culture expansion will pop the hut in 3 turns; don't want a nasty surprise.
Sneaky moves W and W and sees a coast line.
​

[IBT]

8 3600 BC

Worker01 completes the road, moves back into AzAz.
Sneaky Jag moves W, spots the ocean, moves S. Looks like we are at lands end.
​

[IBT]

9 3550 BC

Worker01 moves to the furs in the forest. The furs will connected on the turn before we grow to size 3.
Sneaky Jag moves E onto a forest and next to the goody hut.
​

[IBT]
Cultural expansion pops the goody hut and the Teoihuacan tribe teaches us about Ceremonial Burial.

10 3500 BC

Worker01 begins the forest road for the furs. It will complete one turn after AA grows to 3.
Culture expansion reveals more coastline to our south, southeast and southwest.
Sneaky Jag heads north and north.
Examine AzAz; work the unimproved BG instead of the flood plain and we grow in 7, not 5. Plan to grow and connect at the same time.
​

[IBT]
Aztec Azaleas rJag -> settler, 8 turns.

Our World 3500 BC



11 3450 BC

New jag is named Nosey Jag.
Sneaky Jag N and N, sees plains.
Nosey Jag E and SE.
​

[IBT]

12 3400 BC

​

Nosey Jag SE and E onto an almost island.
Sneak Jag E and E onto hill and opens up the land to the northeast.
[IBT]

13 3350 BC

Sneaky Jag N and N.
Nosey Jag heads back home, W and NW.
​

[IBT]

14 3300 BC

Nosey Jag NW and N.
Sneaky Jag N and N. Sees a red border to the west-northwest.
​

[IBT]

15 3250 BC

Sneaky Jag W and W onto hill next to the red border.
We meet the Romans. They have 45 gold. We know Ceremonial Burial, they know Alaphet and Bronze Working.
They will give BW if we give CB, 3 gpt and 78 of 78 gold. No.

Nosey Jag moves N and NW.

Got busy exploring and didn't pay attention to our growin in Az-Az. It will grow in two turns, after we connect the furs. I could MM it to grow in 1, but we give up 2spt towards the settler. Grow in 2, build in 4.
​

[IBT]
We get the popup that our people like furs.

16 3200 BC

Worker01 heads to the BG across the river, to mine and then road.
Nosey Jag W and N.
Sneaky Jag NE and N, crossing the Roman border. Rome has incense and it is connected already.
​

[IBT]
Rome asks us to leave. We agree.

17 3150 BC

Sneaky Jag got ordered to stay put by my clumsy fingers.
Worker01 mines.
Nosey Jag N, sees a goody hut, pops it, and awakens 3 angry guys in white.
​

[IBT]
One guy in white attacks Nosey and dies, making Nosey a veteran.

18 3100 BC

Sneaky Jag N and N, exiting Roman lands.

One barb fortified, the other went west.
Nosey SW, sees barb to the SW, attacks, turns red and backs off.
​

[IBT]
Aztec Azaleas settler -> rJag, 5 turns.

19 3050 BC

Nosey Jag fortifies to heal.
If Nosey Jag dies we have almost no defense.
Sneaky Jag S and S, ending in Roman lands.
SecondCitySettler SW and W.
​

[IBT]
Northern barb fortifies.
Southern barb moves east and out of sight.

20 3000 BC

Wake Nosey, who has improved to Yellow. SE and sees barb and moves S.
SecondCitySettler W, onto forest.
Sneaky, S and S
​

[IBT]

And the save is >>HERE<<.

 

[CommandoBob]

Notes and Handoff
SecondCitySettler looks to be in a good location but a better one may exist. Here it is three tiles from AzAz, had access to two BG and a cow. It does need a road to connect to AzAz.
The settler is named SecondCitySettler. The city name will be decided by the next player.

We have trades we can make with Rome.
We can sell CB to them for all their gold (45).
We can buy BW for CB and 93 of 111 gold.
We can buy Alphabet for CB, 3 gpt and 111 of 111 gold.

I really didn't care for any of these trades. I think we need to meet someone else and see if tech prices drop.

But if it looks like we might be sacked by the barbarians we might want to deal with Rome and get some use out of our gold.


Our World 3000 BC

To the North 3000 BC

Game Preferences

 

[TimBentley]

With Rome as our closest neighbor, hopefully we won't have to fight any 3def units. I guess Rome popped a hut for gold and pottery and bought BW and 10g for WC (or possibly alphabet) from somebody? I would guess they met the Ottomans then.

N of the cow and N-NE-NE of the capital might be good city sites. Actually moving the settler 1 N (for immediate cow access) and putting a city somewhere southeastish of him might work.

 

[Phaedo]

I like 1N of current placement and no deals with Rome. I think we can out-build him so there isn't an immediate need for the trade. Even if we weren't playing our current variant, 2 warriors would be better than 1 spear. Granted, the investment cost is higher in this game but so is the versality. I don't see he need for trades that just speed up the AI's research.

I have a couple of questions for the next set. How many Jags do we think we need to take the capital? My feeling is 20 but it's purely a gut feel.

I thought a rax should be the first build but with the barbs so close, maybe we should farm them instead and go for the gran.

I'd like to focus on settler with the cap and try to balance them with escorts from the new city. Is there a problem with that?

I have lots of time tomorrow, so I will wait for input before playing.

This is truely fun

 

[CommandoBob]

Barbs
Having a barb camp nearby is a mixed blessing. We can upgrade our rJags on the cheap by fighting the white guys. But we delay our exploration for a while since right now we are just too weak to allow the barbs to roam free. We won't lose any cities to them but we will lose gold if they sack a city.

City Placement
1N is a good location. I didn't consider it because I did not count the tiles right. My counting went: AzAz, road, two and three. And that is why SecondCitySettler is where he is.

But of course we can build a road W and W of AzAz!

Units
Settlers and escorts make sense. We don't have a pressing need for a third city, so maybe a granary in AzAz after the rJag, and then switching to settlers?

We need workers, too.

Land
We have green around us, but not much. Rome has more, plus cows, incense and another river. So we need to build towards Rome.

 

[Sashie VII]

Subscribing......can't believe I missed this.

Go Jaguars!

 

[Norton II]

I vote for 1N of the settler's present location, too. In fact, it might be good to use that city as our settler pump and focus on getting AzAz up to 15 spt.

 

[CivActuary]

How soon do we want to think about thwacking the Romans? I'm not sure I want to see legions.

 

[CommandoBob]

It does look like Rome will be our first target and we have a deadline. We don't want Rome smart, so after we get about 10 Jags or so I think we should declare war on Rome and then pick off the attackers. If we can keep them war focused we might be able to keep them from learning and making Legions and from having their Golden Age as we fight them.

Good time for an MA also, but that is down the road a bit.

First we need about five cities or so making Jags so we can build up fast. Then we can begin to plan in detail how to take down Rome.

 

[Norton II]

Agreed about declaring on Rome soon, but do we really need 5 cities before that? We could probably get 10 jags out of the capital before we get 3 settlers out of the second city.

 

[CommandoBob]

May not, it was a ballpark kind of number. But it would let us make up our losses quicker.

 

[Norton II]

True. If we can wait long enough, more cities would be good--our GA would benefit us more.

 

[Phaedo]

I'm about re-read everything and play my set. I've been thinking about research, and we might want to research IW. It would be greatly helpful if we knew where our enemies' iron was for pillaging purposes. I don't think it's a high priority now but it's something to think about.

OK, so it seems I'll try to get AzAz up to a 2-turn jag pump. Until we can get the tiles worked for 15gpt, it would seem that 8 is enough. I'll also look towards getting the new city set up as some kind of settler pump, but jags first would probably make more sense until we have another worker to work the tiles.