CBob02 Jaguar Conquest
- Thread starter CommandoBob
- Start date
CivActuary
Warlord
Plus we can put off any size 4 unhappiness issues in AzAz for another growth cycle. I like it.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
TimBentley
Deity
I finished the preturn and Rome valued the wheel less than I'd like (also apparently America is close to finishing IW), so they got more of our gold than I'd like, so we're down to 52g. I see no iron near Rome, but there is one by our capital. Writing would currently take 20 turns with -3gpt so with more cities and/or a GA that would be fine. However the rest of the team hasn't mentioned whether they would like alliances or catapults (math also would be 20 turns, but I don't think cats are necessary) or to save money (I don't think that's necessary), so I'll continue tomorrow.
If there's an opportunity to capture the Roman settler, would that be desirable? Probably the Roman worker can be captured as well.
Our stack already has 3 reg jags, so I think switching both our cities to a worker would be good.
If there's an opportunity to capture the Roman settler, would that be desirable? Probably the Roman worker can be captured as well.
Our stack already has 3 reg jags, so I think switching both our cities to a worker would be good.
CivActuary
Warlord
Rome with no iron is good. That makes me worry less.
Getting Writing for the alliances might be good, but then we could save a little cash - we would need to establish embassies.
If we are ready for war that is fine with me, but I think I'd feel safer with a couple more Jags before we are ready. EDIT: And I almost forgot - war pretty much means our GA - are we ready for that too?
Probably good - will the worker in Hooka complete after growth though? After that, maybe a chop for a rax in Hooka?
Phaedo
Emperor
The freebies are a good option. Declaring will just get them to send the units they have against us and we could take care of our worker issues for a while. We might not be set up to declare war and take their cap in one fell swoop, but if we gain from an early war, why not? I haven't thought out the tech issue fully yet, but after math (and I can see the value of Writing), what more do we even want?
TimBentley
Deity
Rome actually had two settlers, so we got 5 slaves from them, although the cruel RNG took 3 units from us.
2150(0): switch both cities to workers
Double checked the placement of blue dot and noticed and added the edit to my previous post was in the wrong place.
buy IW from Rome for 55g
buy the wheel from Celts for IW, 10g
buy alphabet from Rome for TW, 39g
sell alphabet to Celts for masonry, 22g
I wouldn't be surprised if America got IW next turn
Most notably, there's iron by our capital (don't road it, by the time we got a financial benefit we'd have our GA and have to disconnect it) and none near Rome
Send the jags north to see if there might be an opportunity to pick off the settler
start research on writing at 100%
2110(1): spot a barb camp in the northish region
extra food in HH; interestingly hiring a scientist in AA is good
IBT: AA worker->jag
2070(2): disperse barb camp
Rome's top defender is a nonfortified reg spear
IBT: Rome has two settlers!
Our palatial cave has a nice entrance now
2030(3): vet jag promotes to elite killing barb
Found Something non-Aztec, start on barracks
1990(4): Mongols have mysticism, who cares
IBT: AA jag->jag
HH worker->rax
1950(5): declare war on Rome
kill warrior to capture settler
3 jags do a total of 2hp of damage to archer (on grassland), the elite retreated
capture worker mining the hill
1910(6): zzz
IBT: AA jag->jag (2 turn jags
)
1870(7): now 1 jag takes out the 3hp archer to capture the settler without getting hurt
lux to 10%
IBT: Celts start Pyramids
1830(8): zzz
IBT: AA jag->jag
1790(9): spot orange borders
1750(10): elite jag attacks warrior on hill and dies doing 1 damage
Notes: there's a barb camp near Something non-Aztec, so that's what that jag to the east of it is looking for
AA could get to 15spt at size 6, so would build a jag every turn for 8 turns
I forgot to rename the workers
There's 5 jags near Rome, I'd prefer a few more before attacking
2150(0): switch both cities to workers
Double checked the placement of blue dot and noticed and added the edit to my previous post was in the wrong place.
buy IW from Rome for 55g
buy the wheel from Celts for IW, 10g
buy alphabet from Rome for TW, 39g
sell alphabet to Celts for masonry, 22g
I wouldn't be surprised if America got IW next turn
Most notably, there's iron by our capital (don't road it, by the time we got a financial benefit we'd have our GA and have to disconnect it) and none near Rome
Send the jags north to see if there might be an opportunity to pick off the settler
start research on writing at 100%
2110(1): spot a barb camp in the northish region
extra food in HH; interestingly hiring a scientist in AA is good
IBT: AA worker->jag
2070(2): disperse barb camp
Rome's top defender is a nonfortified reg spear
IBT: Rome has two settlers!
Our palatial cave has a nice entrance now
2030(3): vet jag promotes to elite killing barb
Found Something non-Aztec, start on barracks
1990(4): Mongols have mysticism, who cares
IBT: AA jag->jag
HH worker->rax
1950(5): declare war on Rome
kill warrior to capture settler
3 jags do a total of 2hp of damage to archer (on grassland), the elite retreated
capture worker mining the hill
1910(6): zzz
IBT: AA jag->jag (2 turn jags
)1870(7): now 1 jag takes out the 3hp archer to capture the settler without getting hurt
lux to 10%
IBT: Celts start Pyramids
1830(8): zzz
IBT: AA jag->jag
1790(9): spot orange borders
1750(10): elite jag attacks warrior on hill and dies doing 1 damage
Notes: there's a barb camp near Something non-Aztec, so that's what that jag to the east of it is looking for
AA could get to 15spt at size 6, so would build a jag every turn for 8 turns
I forgot to rename the workers
There's 5 jags near Rome, I'd prefer a few more before attacking
Attachments
Lboogie13
Warlord
Good work Tim.
My vote doesn't change for attacking Rome. It is still pop. 1 with a regular spear as the first unit showing. I agree with Tim that we need a few more jags but let's not wait too long.
My vote doesn't change for attacking Rome. It is still pop. 1 with a regular spear as the first unit showing. I agree with Tim that we need a few more jags but let's not wait too long.
I'm on turn 5. Haven't moved on Rome yet but won't wait much longer. We just learned writing, and I have two questions:
1. What should we research next? Math? Or should we go for philosophy and hope we're the first to it (taking math as our free tech)? 3 other civs have writing, so maybe we should play it safe and just go directly for math. It's more costly than philosophy, though, so if we do succeed, it'll save us a few turns of research.
2. We can trade writing to the Americans for Mysticism and 75 gpt, or we can just get 111 gpt without the tech. Everyone but us has mysticism, so I'm inclined to take the cash.
I'll wait a couple of hours, then proceed as I think best if I hear nothing. Right now, I'm thinking of trading writing to America for 111gpt, then running max research toward philosophy (10 turns, or the rest of our GA) and hoping that we get it first and can trade it, possibly for math.
1. What should we research next? Math? Or should we go for philosophy and hope we're the first to it (taking math as our free tech)? 3 other civs have writing, so maybe we should play it safe and just go directly for math. It's more costly than philosophy, though, so if we do succeed, it'll save us a few turns of research.
2. We can trade writing to the Americans for Mysticism and 75 gpt, or we can just get 111 gpt without the tech. Everyone but us has mysticism, so I'm inclined to take the cash.
I'll wait a couple of hours, then proceed as I think best if I hear nothing. Right now, I'm thinking of trading writing to America for 111gpt, then running max research toward philosophy (10 turns, or the rest of our GA) and hoping that we get it first and can trade it, possibly for math.
First off, the save: View attachment CBob02_BC_1500_Norton.SAV
Summary: Rome's out of the picture, we're 3 turns away from philosophy (which it looks as if we'll get first), and our stack of jags is coming along nicely. Unfortunately, my impatience cost us a little bit, as you'll see.
Preflight: everything looks good, so nothing
IBT: AA jag->jag (2); HH barracks->jag (3);SnA barracks->jag (5)
1:jag kills barb; 2 jags start moving north
IBT:---
2: we meet England--they're up mysticism and have a worker for sale; we can afford neither
IBT:
-Roman warrior dies attacking jag (1-0); Roman archer appears
-AA jag->jag (2)
3: vet jag kills roman archer, is redlined but promotes to elite (2-0); reg jag move to cover
IBT: HH jag->jag (3)
4: continue gathering jags
IBT:
-Romans wanna talk--nope!
-another archer shows up
-writing comes in, start on philisophy (10 turns at 70%, -6 gpt)
-AA jag->jag (2), SnA jag->jag (3)
5:
-sell writing to America for 111 gold
-an embassy in America cost 41 gold--we pay, since we can afford it and still don't know exactly where America is
Here's Washington:
IBT: Roman archer dies attacking jag (2-0)
6:
-we have 8 jags ready to attack Rome, so we attack; results: 2 jags kill spears, 2 jags die, 1 jag retreats, and--
Also,
I seem to be in the habit of conquering Rome in SGs.
-after Rome is captured, gpt is at -2, support costs at 0
-trade writing to England for myst and 10 gold
IBT: AA jag->jag (2);HH jag->jag (3); palace expansion!
7: nothing, but notice Celts have iron hooked up--they should be our next target
IBT: SnA jag->jag (3)
8: notice barb warrior next to 3 slaves after all units have moved!
IBT:
-barb kills 3 slaves
-AA jag->jag (2)
9: jag kills barb, then finds barb camp (insert comments about barn doors and stolen horses here)
IBT: HH jag->jag (3); England starts Colossus
10:
-jag kills barb, loots 25 gold from camp
-reg jag kills barb in jungle, promotes to vet
-swap some tiles around in AA--1-turn jags for rest of GA! Too bad that's only 5 turns.
City status:
Aztec Azaleas (6): growth in 9, jag in 1, 15 spt
Hooka Huacan (3): growth in 4, granary in 9, 7 spt
Something not Aztec (2): growth in 3, jag in 1
Rome (1): growth in 3, worker in 6
Military status:
-5 workers (3 natives, 2 slaves)
-16 jaguar warriors
-support cost: 3 gpt
Notes:
-I switched production in HH to a granary; I wanted to focus on jags during our GA, but once that's over, it'd be nice to get a few settlers out of HH.
-I have 2 jags scouting and 14 available for our SoD. We probably shouldn't go after the Celts with fewer than 20, and we should have that many within 6-7 turns.
-Philosophy's due in 3, and we'll almost certainly get it first. What should our free tech be?
Summary: Rome's out of the picture, we're 3 turns away from philosophy (which it looks as if we'll get first), and our stack of jags is coming along nicely. Unfortunately, my impatience cost us a little bit, as you'll see.
Preflight: everything looks good, so nothing
IBT: AA jag->jag (2); HH barracks->jag (3);SnA barracks->jag (5)
1:jag kills barb; 2 jags start moving north
IBT:---
2: we meet England--they're up mysticism and have a worker for sale; we can afford neither
IBT:
-Roman warrior dies attacking jag (1-0); Roman archer appears
-AA jag->jag (2)
3: vet jag kills roman archer, is redlined but promotes to elite (2-0); reg jag move to cover
IBT: HH jag->jag (3)
4: continue gathering jags
IBT:
-Romans wanna talk--nope!
-another archer shows up
-writing comes in, start on philisophy (10 turns at 70%, -6 gpt)
-AA jag->jag (2), SnA jag->jag (3)
5:
-sell writing to America for 111 gold
-an embassy in America cost 41 gold--we pay, since we can afford it and still don't know exactly where America is
Here's Washington:
IBT: Roman archer dies attacking jag (2-0)
6:
-we have 8 jags ready to attack Rome, so we attack; results: 2 jags kill spears, 2 jags die, 1 jag retreats, and--
Also,
I seem to be in the habit of conquering Rome in SGs.
-after Rome is captured, gpt is at -2, support costs at 0
-trade writing to England for myst and 10 gold
IBT: AA jag->jag (2);HH jag->jag (3); palace expansion!
7: nothing, but notice Celts have iron hooked up--they should be our next target
IBT: SnA jag->jag (3)
8: notice barb warrior next to 3 slaves after all units have moved!
IBT:
-barb kills 3 slaves
-AA jag->jag (2)
9: jag kills barb, then finds barb camp (insert comments about barn doors and stolen horses here)
IBT: HH jag->jag (3); England starts Colossus
10:
-jag kills barb, loots 25 gold from camp
-reg jag kills barb in jungle, promotes to vet
-swap some tiles around in AA--1-turn jags for rest of GA! Too bad that's only 5 turns.
City status:
Aztec Azaleas (6): growth in 9, jag in 1, 15 spt
Hooka Huacan (3): growth in 4, granary in 9, 7 spt
Something not Aztec (2): growth in 3, jag in 1
Rome (1): growth in 3, worker in 6
Military status:
-5 workers (3 natives, 2 slaves)
-16 jaguar warriors
-support cost: 3 gpt
Notes:
-I switched production in HH to a granary; I wanted to focus on jags during our GA, but once that's over, it'd be nice to get a few settlers out of HH.
-I have 2 jags scouting and 14 available for our SoD. We probably shouldn't go after the Celts with fewer than 20, and we should have that many within 6-7 turns.
-Philosophy's due in 3, and we'll almost certainly get it first. What should our free tech be?
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
Jaguars have got their first kill! Congratulations 
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Roster:
CommandoBob- on deck
Phaedo - warming up
CivActuary
TimBentley
Norton II - just played
Lboogie13- UP!
Game Situation
One down, six to go!
Judging from the mini-map, it looks like we've got a one dimensional war (just Jags) and a one front war (whoever is next to us, in this case the Celts.)
Government: can we win this in Despotism or do we need to consider Monarchy? I don't see us having large cities, since a rather small town can produce 5spt and make 3 turn Jags. But we will need a lot of cities doing that.
If we get a Free Tech with Philosophy, I'm all for making it a government tech (Monarchy or Republic) and switching soon. But I would not trade the tech right away. I would wait until the turn before we attack the Celts and sell it to them for all their gold and as many of their techs as possible. On the IBT, the Celts will change governments and descend into anarchy, while we start attacking.
We need to road to Rome quickly, in order to connect to the Incense, unless another luxury is closer. We have a second fur near NE of AzAz, but I don't think we need it just yet. It is only trade bait anyway.
After we get our 20 Jags into their Stack of Doom, we may want to consider spitting out some settlers from AzAz. Right now it can produce a settler in 2 turns. I would plan on making settlers until the city was again down to size 6 and making 1 turn Jags. That would let us boost our city count and production efforts and not disrupt the war effort greatly. I'm counting on the fact that by then the other cities will be producing Jags to feed into the northern conquests. But only time will tell.
But we also need workers to make roads to the front lines. Our troops move fast, but we need roads to keep the forces strong and on the offense. So perhaps just one settler and some workers instead of just settlers.
CommandoBob- on deck
Phaedo - warming up
CivActuary
TimBentley
Norton II - just played
Lboogie13- UP!
Game Situation
One down, six to go!
Judging from the mini-map, it looks like we've got a one dimensional war (just Jags) and a one front war (whoever is next to us, in this case the Celts.)
Government: can we win this in Despotism or do we need to consider Monarchy? I don't see us having large cities, since a rather small town can produce 5spt and make 3 turn Jags. But we will need a lot of cities doing that.
If we get a Free Tech with Philosophy, I'm all for making it a government tech (Monarchy or Republic) and switching soon. But I would not trade the tech right away. I would wait until the turn before we attack the Celts and sell it to them for all their gold and as many of their techs as possible. On the IBT, the Celts will change governments and descend into anarchy, while we start attacking.
We need to road to Rome quickly, in order to connect to the Incense, unless another luxury is closer. We have a second fur near NE of AzAz, but I don't think we need it just yet. It is only trade bait anyway.
After we get our 20 Jags into their Stack of Doom, we may want to consider spitting out some settlers from AzAz. Right now it can produce a settler in 2 turns. I would plan on making settlers until the city was again down to size 6 and making 1 turn Jags. That would let us boost our city count and production efforts and not disrupt the war effort greatly. I'm counting on the fact that by then the other cities will be producing Jags to feed into the northern conquests. But only time will tell.
But we also need workers to make roads to the front lines. Our troops move fast, but we need roads to keep the forces strong and on the offense. So perhaps just one settler and some workers instead of just settlers.
Sashie VII
Balance of Power
lurker's comment: You might want to take into considerations the respective unit support of the governments, since you're going to have a massive number of jags.
Hard to say right now, but how much would monarchy help us? Losing the despotism penalty would be nice, but losing despotism's unit support wouldn't.
Unfortunately, no government techs are available to us right now--we don't have CoL or poly, and neither does anyone else. I thought about getting one of those before heading to philosophy, but given the number of civs that already have writing, and given how much our research will drop off after our GA, I thought it unwise to put off philo any longer. Maybe we could get CoL or poly, then research a government tech. If we don't do that, we should get math instead, in case we need cats soon.
Maybe one settler out of the capital would be good, but we're only getting 1-turn jags now because of our GA--we'll need a higher population after that. Besides, with a granary and an irrigated cow, we can make Hooka Huacan into a 6-turn settler pump, which can give us 3-turn workers as well (though we'll need to limit production to 4 spt in that case).
lurker's comment: On the government issue, have you guys considered (gasp) Feudalism? Support of 5/2/1 would support a lot of Jags with small towns. (But extra units cost 3 . . . ) It's available pretty early. And besides, you're agricultural (IIRC), which would speed recovery from pop-rushing.
Y'know, feudalism just might be worth a try, as long as we build plenty of towns. The only thing that worries me is the war weariness; same as republic but with no commerce bonus. If we lose lots of jags, our economy could crash pretty quickly.
Phaedo
Emperor
I like despotism for us. I also like cats for the next tech but after that I think we might want to shut down research. We are just speeding up research fro everyone by doing our own and trading stuff around. Faster research works against us. The quicker the AI gets to Feudalism, the faster they get pikes.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
War weariness might be a problem, but I don't think so. Our units move fast and can cover a lot of ground. With Feudalism we just have to keep our population down, which we could do with a lot of workers and pop rushing.
Losing a town is really bad when calculating WW. If we don't lose any cities I would expect our wars to be rather short and brief.
But we have to move quickly to steamroller over the Celts and then continue around the landscape doing the same thing. I like the idea of Feudalism for its unit support. With cheap units and a lot of cities we should be almost unstoppable.
Losing a town is really bad when calculating WW. If we don't lose any cities I would expect our wars to be rather short and brief.
But we have to move quickly to steamroller over the Celts and then continue around the landscape doing the same thing. I like the idea of Feudalism for its unit support. With cheap units and a lot of cities we should be almost unstoppable.
