CFC Linguistics - Names, Nouns, Pronunciation, oh my! (from Random Raves LII)

[EgonSpengler]

A woman who works in the same building as me started using her Chinese name. She went through 3 different 'American' names before going back to the name her momma gave her.

I haven't asked her, but I wonder if somebody told her that she needed an "American-sounding" name in the US. It's certainly been common here, from time immemorial, for immigrants from all over the world to adopt a new name - a first name or a surname or both - to sound more American. I think in a lot of cases, it was foisted upon them. Of course I want anyone to feel free to change their name if they want to, for any reason - I know a Korean-American woman who prefers her 'American' name to the one on her birth certificate - but I'd like people to feel like they don't have to if they don't want to. In the case of this Chinese woman, I don't know if (a) the pressure to conform has lightened enough that she's comfortable using her Chinese name; or (b) she's just decided to be her own woman and her name is her name, gosh darn it; or (c) she's decided she can't cover her face or smooth out her accent and people are randomly punching Asians in the streets anyway, so f it. I hope it's (a), and (b) would be kind of sexy, but I'm worried it could be (c). I guess I'm choosing to believe it's (a) or (b), which is why I'm calling it a rave, but I feel like I have to acknowledge the asterisk. I don't feel like I know her well enough to just ask.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

My previous secretary was Chinese and had picked a North American name that she really didn't like. After asking if it was OK, I started calling her by her Chinese name, much to her delight. She finally decided to go with her Chinese name full time. Perhaps I instilled a little confidence in her, I don't know, but I am pleased that she feels comfortable enough in our society to use her own name and not have to conform to our expectations.

 

[JohannaK]

I had a Chinese friend who wanted to go by Irene. I tried to call her by her actual Chinese name but I'm not sure by her giggles if she liked it or I was just that bad.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I have several Chinese friends that go by western names:
Renee = Gengxin Zhu
Briony = Jing Chen
Joan Huang = ?
Michelle He = ?
Tony = Cheng Shi
Lewis Lu = ?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

I had a Chinese friend who wanted to go by Irene. I tried to call her by her actual Chinese name but I'm not sure by her giggles if she liked it or I was just that bad.

Maybe she has the same problem I have, in that people mangle her first name. If she's anything like the situation with me and North Americans, they can't pronounce or spell her name for love nor money. They sure as hell can't pronounce mine (Siobhán).

I am very sensitive to people's names, and I try really hard to get it right with other people, to the point where I will have people pronounce their names whilst I mimic them to get it right. Hopefully, the giggles meant that she liked it, Jo.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I had a Chinese friend who wanted to go by Irene. I tried to call her by her actual Chinese name but I'm not sure by her giggles if she liked it or I was just that bad.

I have several Chinese friends that go by western names:
Renee = Gengxin Zhu
Briony = Jing Chen
Joan Huang = ?
Michelle He = ?
Tony = Cheng Shi
Lewis Lu = ?

This woman went by 'Elaine' first, which made me chuckle because it made me think of the character on Seinfeld. Then she switched to 'Connie', which isn't bad (makes me think of Connie Britton and Connie Nielsen - I'm not sure I know any Connies).

Maybe she has the same problem I have, in that people mangle her first name. If she's anything like the situation with me and North Americans, they can't pronounce or spell her name for love nor money. They sure as hell can't pronounce mine (Siobhán).

I remember Baratunde Thurston talking about how quickly people would give up on even trying to pronounce his name, even though it's not really that hard. I find that Chinese names aren't tough to pronounce once I see them written out in English, but the Chinese tend to pronounce them very swiftly. I knew a guy named Jicheng, and it took me a while to even hear it properly, because when it said it, it sounded something like "jchn" like he was dropping all of the vowels and my ear couldn't grab ahold of it. I don't know if Mandarin is just a faster language than English. I think a lot of languages are faster than English. Irish names are tough for Americans. Saoirse. Aoife. Niamh. Aoibh. *throws up hands* I had an Irish dentist once whose son was named Ciaran, and when I asked her whether she spelled it with a C, she was so happy she practically hugged me. She said her son, being American, hated the Irish spelling because everybody mispronounced it (Americans usually go with 'Kieran').

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Maybe she has the same problem I have, in that people mangle her first name. If she's anything like the situation with me and North Americans, they can't pronounce or spell her name for love nor money. They sure as hell can't pronounce mine (Siobhán).

I am very sensitive to people's names, and I try really hard to get it right with other people, to the point where I will have people pronounce their names whilst I mimic them to get it right. Hopefully, the giggles meant that she liked it, Jo.

I don't have a problem pronouncing your name, but then I've heard and seen it before, elsewhere.


My RL first name is extremely common for my generation. So common that one year in the theatre, there were FIVE of us. One was the stage manager, another was one of her junior crew, two were in the chorus, and the other was me (head of the props crew). When the director called "_______!" five of us would answer. She got fed up with that (so did we, as we never knew which of us she wanted), so she started calling us either by our positions or character names. So that year I had to learn to answer to "Props!".

And even though it's a common name, there is a French version... which some people think is the correct one (why they would think that in a province where hardly anyone speaks French if they're not in a francophone household, community, or school, I have no idea; the last time I was called that on an everyday basis was 40 years ago in my French classes in college, as the instructor insisted on it and therefore my classmates thought it was really my name and would call me that even in other classes we shared). Not even my high school French teacher tried to use the French version of my name. But since he was from India and his name was very long and he was used to people mangling it, I think that's why he tried to be mindful of his students' names.

My middle name has caused the most annoyances, though. It's the Swedish version of an English name; the spellings are close but the pronunciations are different. Of course any time I've had to tell Somebody In Charge my middle name, they default to the English spelling or something else entirely (Italian once, even though they had the correct spelling right in front of them; lucky I caught that as it was for an ID card), as they're sure that my name can't possibly be this weird thing. I even had this argument with my Grade 1 teacher, in class one day. We were all asked to tell our middle names, and the teacher decided she had to correct me. I'd said, "My middle name is ______" and she said condescendingly, "No, dear. It's ______". I knew I was right, and actually yelled at her. That night I told my mother... I don't know if she had a talk with the teacher, but at least that issue never came up again.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Maybe she has the same problem I have, in that people mangle her first name. If she's anything like the situation with me and North Americans, they can't pronounce or spell her name for love nor money. They sure as hell can't pronounce mine (Siobhán).

I am very sensitive to people's names, and I try really hard to get it right with other people, to the point where I will have people pronounce their names whilst I mimic them to get it right. Hopefully, the giggles meant that she liked it, Jo.

Are you known by/as Siobhan?

 

[choxorn]

I don't have a problem pronouncing your name, but then I've heard and seen it before, elsewhere.

Same. "Shuh-Bahn" is more-or-less correct, right?

 

[thetrooper]

Shiv-on

 

[JohannaK]

Maybe she has the same problem I have, in that people mangle her first name. If she's anything like the situation with me and North Americans, they can't pronounce or spell her name for love nor money. They sure as hell can't pronounce mine (Siobhán).

I am very sensitive to people's names, and I try really hard to get it right with other people, to the point where I will have people pronounce their names whilst I mimic them to get it right. Hopefully, the giggles meant that she liked it, Jo.

I know she liked me, although I did not like her the same way. That was... movie worthy tbh. We talked for like for hours where she tried to say she loved me and I tried to talk around that and then she said it straight and I had to say no... I'm pretty sure it was stsrting to rain as we said goodbye and I closed the door on her face.

Like, so much like a soapy romance movie you wouldn't believe it.

 

[Arakhor]

I'd pronounce Siobhan as Sh'vorn, but then I have had a bit of exposure to Irish names. Then again, I've always pronounced Ciaran as Keer-un.

 

[Takhisis]

I know she liked me, although I did not like her the same way. That was... movie worthy tbh. We talked for like for hours where she tried to say she loved me and I tried to talk around that and then she said it straight and I had to say no... I'm pretty sure it was stsrting to rain as we said goodbye and I closed the door on her face.

Like, so much like a soapy romance movie you wouldn't believe it.

This should, pretty much, be the basis for a script for a short film, say, 30-40 minutes.

 

[Arakhor]

Throw in a sub-plot about how Irene's father doesn't think that you were good enough for his daughter and maybe even a complication with you still holding a torch for your ex who has suddenly come back into your life and then we can have a full-length gay rom-com!

 

[Takhisis]

Why did I immediately think of James Hong as playing Irene's father?

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Are you known by/as Siobhan?

Only in Ireland and for the government here in Canada.

Same. "Shuh-Bahn" is more-or-less correct, right?

Nope. Sheh-VONNE. The 'bh' makes a 'V' sound, and the 'á' makes the "aww" sound at the end.

I'd pronounce Siobhan as Sh'vorn, but then I have had a bit of exposure to Irish names. Then again, I've always pronounced Ciaran as Keer-un.

In some areas of Ireland, it is pronounced that way. I've only met one woman who did though. Most of the Siobháns I have ever met pronounce it like I do. I would pronounce Ciaran as "Kee-ar-an".

Oh boy. Car accident incoming. Gotta go. Enjoy your night folks.

 

[Arakhor]

Why did I immediately think of James Hong as playing Irene's father?

He's 92! I suppose that he could be Irene's doting granddad instead...

 

[Takhisis]

Oh boy. Car accident incoming. Gotta go. Enjoy your night folks.

OTOH that in itself is cinematic, all this being a story told to someone just before that someone leaves in a hurry to get back to work.

 

[choxorn]

Nope. Sheh-VONNE. The 'bh' makes a 'V' sound, and the 'á' makes the "aww" sound at the end.

Ah, my bad, it had always sounded more like a "b" to me when I'd heard it said aloud, same with the "aww" sounding like an "ah" (and more generally, I often confuse aww sounds for ah sounds)

 

[Kyriakos]

Imo words should sound like they are written. Unlike "queue" or Gloucester/Leicester.

I think that happens in modern italian. For the most part happens in current greek too (apart from diphthongs, eg ei,oi still sound as e, but iirc in ancient greek the first sound also was there in some form).