Christian ideals and Republican policies

Azadre

One more turn...
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Christian ideals and Republican policies

By Humphrey Hawksley
BBC world affairs correspondent, Ohio

For many Republicans, Christianity and support for President George W Bush go hand-in-hand, but if the two begin to clash, will the friendship continue?

Inside aquarium tanks lining a foyer of the Fairfield Christian Church in the small town of Lancaster, Ohio, are some of the most striking fish I have ever seen.

Sharp yellows, blues and reds with graceful movements as they swam between the small areas of rocks and vegetation.

"See that," said Pastor Russell Johnson.

"Don't tell me you get such beauty from the randomness of evolution. This is the product of intelligent creation by God."

As he showed me round, school children scampered past between lessons.

I am introduced to a 6ft-plus basketball coach.

And Pastor Johnson took a call on his mobile phone from a political insider about making sure the right man becomes the next Ohio governor - in other words, someone who shares the values of Pastor Johnson.

He is a short, fit man in early middle age, who has turned his church from a congregation of a couple of hundred 10 years ago to one where thousands come every week and tens of thousands feed into it through sports, charities, schools and Republican party politics.

I was in Lancaster with a straightforward mission.

Lancaster is solidly Republican, more than 95% white

Given that so many in Europe and the developing world are appalled at the policies of President Bush, how far would his supporters actually let him go?

"You want an answer to that, come to my breakfast meeting tomorrow morning," said Pastor Johnson.

It would be at 0615.

Core values

Lancaster is solidly Republican, more than 95% white, its approach roads are strip-malls, its centre quaint 19th-Century houses, meticulously upkept - and a church on almost every corner.

My next stop was to see the Brown family: Stephen, a trial attorney who has just turned 40, his wife Carri who works with underprivileged children, and their two children - Corbin, who is 17, and Cat, who is nine.

Stephen is also a Republican party activist who lists his core values as family and the church.

In the dark, I could not make out the house numbers, so after a phone call, Stephen was out on the porch, in his shirt sleeves with temperatures close to freezing, arms waving to guide me in.

Carri has decorated their house in rich, deep colours, flagged kitchen tiling, piles of books, a grand piano, portraits of David Bowie and Marilyn Monroe painted by a friend and candles flickering in the fireplace and windows.

I asked the question.

"I don't want to see any more tax cuts," said Carri.

"I see a lot of families struggling a great deal. What we need is more government funds to look after disadvantaged children."

Stephen thought for a moment. "If the purpose of expanding America's forces overseas," he said, "is to chase an ideological idea of democracy, that's where I would break.

"I'm not in favour of democratising the whole world."

Bush and Lincoln

The next morning, Pastor Johnson's breakfast meeting was a cross-section of the pillars of Lancaster society.

On his left was recently re-elected Sheriff Dave Phalen - on his right, Judge David Trimmer.

Among the others were school principals, businessmen and doctors, gathering in a strip-mall hotel on a gloomy winter's morning, all with Bibles on the table in front of them.

I threw out the question.

"The president has been sovereignly decided by God to lead this country," said Matt Roberts, a head teacher.

"If we could see abortion come to an end," said Sheriff Phalen. "If the Supreme Court could end this tragedy, I would be elated."

"Would you still support Bush if he wasn't a Christian?" I asked.

"No," came the answer from Pastor Johnson.

"Abraham Lincoln took his faith to office and lived it out by freeing black slave boys and girls all over America. I believe that is what Bush is doing by setting the captives of terrorism free."

It turns out that Pastor Johnson's church has caused something of an upset in Lancaster.

In short, it is seen as too extreme, with Pastor Johnson pushing to get into government politicians who, he says, have a Biblical view of the world.

On Sunday, the Brown family worships across the road from their house at the United Methodist Church, which is at least as packed as Pastor Johnson's.

Lancaster's Republican mayor and his wife are among the congregation.

I asked the church's young, softly spoken Pastor, Larry Brown, what President Bush would have to do for him to preach against it from the pulpit.

"If he were creating an empire," he says, "that would be troublesome for me.

"Outright military aggression is something Christians can't embrace."

I had come to Lancaster to gauge Republican political views, but left convinced that it is, in fact, the raging debate about Christian values that may well decide the future path of America, very much.

As the debate between extremist and moderate Muslims is likely to set the tone for the future of the Islamic world.

From Our Own Correspondent was broadcast on Saturday, 18 December 2004 at 1130 GMT on BBC Radio 4. Please check the programme schedules for World Service transmission times.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4105229.stm

Published: 2004/12/18 12:06:02 GMT

© BBC MMIV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lancaster is very close to my hometown. It's frightening how many evangelicals there are so close to home. I just hope they won't start pounding the drums for the next crusade for the holy land...
If fundamentalists take over our government, will we lose power and prestige in the world? Didn't this situation happen in Rome?
 
This is interesting. I've often said that what depresses me most about religion and politics in America is that the association of Christianity with right-wing political and social agendas simply debases Christianity. People now assume that Christians are all right-wing (I amazed a friend recently by informing him that the Roman Catholic Church condemns capital punishment: he had assumed that because they are religious they support it!). If Christians - even fundamentalists - in the "red states" are questioning the supposed Christian agenda of Bush then that is a good thing for religion, and it might be a good thing for politics too if it loses him their support.
 
Azadre said:
If fundamentalists take over our government, will we lose power and prestige in the world? Didn't this situation happen in Rome?

Ah yes, Christianity caused the downfall of Rome. You pagan. ;)
 
The freaky religious lady in the story said she wants government funds to go to disadvantaged children.

I'm tired of these collectivist faithlings bringing down capitalism in a hogwash of religious dogmatism and virulent altruism.
 
Actually no, Connor, not Christianism. Fundamentalism. It always does, in whichever place it puts it's sleeze fingers on, and through whatever religion it disguises itself.

Regards :).
 
In Sweden the former Swedish state church is decidedly left-wing (socialistic), mostly when it comes to economics but the economic left wing stance is so strong that it overrules any social issue.

In south America the church has many times aligned itself with socialist revolutionaries and the like.

I am vehemently anti-religious but how anyone can interpret the word of Jesus as right-wing in todays society is beyond me. The man was a revolutionary who revolted against the very same things the right wingers of today hold so dear. The answer to the question: What would Jesus do? Is that if he had lived today he would have joined or started a left wing party to fight the power. In short, Jesus was a idealistic hippy.
 
The early Christians were communist too!!

But yeah, Jesus was a rebel. He hated the Jewish religious hierarchy considering it to be corrupt and too focused on tradition, dogma and rituals and not focused enough on the true meaning of the word of God. For example his rant about how Holy Places of Worship like temples mean nothing. Because God does not "live" in those places. God lives everywhere. To say that something is the "House of God" is totally wrong. The entire world is the House of God.

He also was kind to those who many right-wing Christians today would have considered the scum of society and would have like to lock up and throw away the key or even execute them. Some Christians I know are still like that. For example one family I know take in criminals that other people refuse to touch and try to rehabilitate them. For Jesus there was always a second chance, a third chance, a fourth chance (personally I think this is too idealistic but hey, I have to admire him for this).

Jesus also preached your "neighbour" was not necessarily someone the same religion or the same race as you but whoever treats other people well and disdained the exclusive nature of Jewish religious beliefs that they were the only ones who could be "saved". Everyone could be "saved". He also treated women with a lot more respect than traditional Jewish culture did.

Jesus also didn't support religion interfering too much with the state. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is God's. He also despised the Jewish religious hierarchy who ruled daily life.

I'm not a Christian, but I admire Jesus as a person. Reading the New Testament though I can see why many Jews were attracted to him. Compared to other religious leaders of the time he was a breath of fresh air in a cesspit of corruption and racial prejudice and he had a lot of personal charisma. Also his forgiving nature and willingness to give anyone a second chance and take them on their merits rather than obsessing over their past or parentage probably attracted many people who were used to being despised and kicked around by society. Then there was also the inclusive nature of his beliefs, including women and non-Jews. It wasn't fire or brimstone that attracted Jesus' initial followers but his sheer niceness.

joacqin said:
In Sweden the former Swedish state church is decidedly left-wing (socialistic), mostly when it comes to economics but the economic left wing stance is so strong that it overrules any social issue.

In south America the church has many times aligned itself with socialist revolutionaries and the like.

I am vehemently anti-religious but how anyone can interpret the word of Jesus as right-wing in todays society is beyond me. The man was a revolutionary who revolted against the very same things the right wingers of today hold so dear. The answer to the question: What would Jesus do? Is that if he had lived today he would have joined or started a left wing party to fight the power. In short, Jesus was a idealistic hippy.
 
Uiler said:
It wasn't fire or brimstone that attracted Jesus' initial followers but his sheer niceness.


a very catchy summary in the same spirit by DA:

'.... a man was nailed to a tree for saying how nice it would be if everyone would be nice to everyone else for a change.'
 
FredLC said:
Actually no, Connor, not Christianism. Fundamentalism. It always does, in whichever place it puts it's sleeze fingers on, and through whatever religion it disguises itself.

Regards :).

It sure does destroy any state, and religion, that it touches. But the Roman Empire 313 was pretty crappy already, and the Christianity that controlled it probably wasn't very fundamentalist, either.
 
The Republicans are in direct contradication to the Bible. "It is easier to fit a camel throught the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven" yet they continue to give the rich tax cuts.
 
Translation problems there. Many scholars insist the term is not "rich men" but "greedy men". Also, it should be pointed out that in Jesus' time camels went through the eye of a needle thousands of times daily. The term does not refer to an actual needle; but rather an architectural design: a narrow passageway set up in walls and ravines in order to restrict access, so that it was possible for traders and citizens to pass in and out, but invading armies and marauders would be slowed down and easily picked off as they entered one by one. It was a bit awkward to maneuver a loaded camel through the eye of a needle, but, obviously, it was a fairly common occurence. Therefore, Jesus is not saying it is impossible for rich or greedy men to get to heaven, only more difficult.
 
Keirador said:
Translation problems there. Many scholars insist the term is not "rich men" but "greedy men".

Even if that was not the actual term, that is how you should interpret it.

If Jesus meant that rich people can't get into heaven, he's no more than a vindictive socialist.
 
I think they "eye of a needle" thing is more important than whether its "rich" or "greedy". It completely changes the meaning of the phrase.
 
Lancaster isn't far from Columbus, where I lived until I was 18 (and am right now). These types of churches have sprung up all over the state, mainly in the counties out side of the major cities. They're the Walmart of churches -- warehouse-sized buildings that have flashy signs and are near major highways (as anyone driving I-71 out of, or into, Cincinnati can attest to).

The seating capacity is greater than a theatre, with the same style of seating. The preaching is more theatrical than religious. They're sickening.

If anything, the pastor interviewed is mild compared his peers in these megachurches.

Edit: Azadre, are you still attending OSU? If so, do you live on campus?
 
Azadre said:
Christian ideals and Republican policies
are incompatible, at least on an economic level.
 
cgannon64 said:
Ah yes, Christianity caused the downfall of Rome. You pagan. ;)


Success breeds faithlessness. Only when people are broke and desperate are they vulnerable to the various power structures of religion.
 
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