Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

[Skriticos]

I have the gut feeling this will be the worst selling game in the series.

I consider Civ players generally quite smart and think many of us will vote with our wallet (by not buying). Matter of principle. Otherwise this destructive tendency only gets worse.

This is simply the wrong game to do this crap.

 

[idolminds]

You can turn off updates. The second claim is likely said by someone with no experience with steam. I have a few games on steam where I turned it off since their updates were so large, and I can still play it just fine.

Maybe its different for certain games, but I personally have never been allowed to launch a game on Steam without it being fully updated. That goes for every Valve game, Red Orchestra, The Ship, Audiosurf, and any other game I have on my account (40 games). I can delay the update by choosing the "Do not automatically update" option, but once I go to start the game it tries to download it anyway.

 

[De Begerac]

Once upon a time in a gaming cafe far, far away long before the inception of Steam I started playing a very early HL 1 mod called Day of Defeat. It was free, easy to play and a good alternative to CounterStrike. It was a great community and the dev team worked hard to make it a polished product over the years and aside from occasional different map versions on different servers I had very little problems with it. And then came Steam; And problem after problem.

I still play DoD and I have used Steam since it first came out. I have watched as it has grown and crashed and developed and crashed and have become more and more cynical with it over time. The fiasco when HL2 was released and they cocked up mine and a lot of other peoples credit card details was the last straw. I still of course have steam but only because of the community of friends I have through DoD. Because I have no choice, no other way of playing the game with them. And despite the fact that DoD is now a finished, patched game it still crashes - but only because of Steam. I am not someone who has never used the platform, I use it almost daily. And I appreciate the friends system and how easy it is to make player groups and arrange games but those features do not outweigh the platforms faults and bugs. I want to play Empire Total War; Similar to Civ V I waited eagerly for every snippet of info in the run up to it's release but I will not buy a game that I have to run through Steam and it is incredibly frustrating every time I walk into Game to see it on the shelves, want to play it and then see that little Steam account required label on the box.

I have played and thoroughly enjoyed the Civilization series for a lot of years, ever since a Civ II demo was released on a MacWorld demo disk back in the beginning of 1999. No other games series I have found to be as playable and with enough variation each game to make it worth coming back to over and over and over and over again. I was thoroughly looking forward to the next installment and it is with much regret that I have to say I won't now be buying it. It is an incredible shame that you have chosen to take the series in this direction. I would have thought there would have been more than sufficient evidence from other companies that have tried just this and the backlash they recieved from fans that such a decision, such a change in the way you market the game would be detrimental not just to yourselves as a company but also to the way you have divided the Civ community over it. I implore you to reconsider but I fear, as has been said earlier in this thread, the decision is already set in stone.

Cyrano de Begerac

 

[myturn]

"Buying a disk in a store, inserting it, installing it, and playing whenever, however I want is also less intrusive than Steam (and even GOO)."

Exactly my thought.

 

[Le Sage]

Thank you, Eijit and others for answering some of my questions and worries about Steam. I am still concerned, but I am not deadly scared anymore.

I started today getting a headache from hearing about these Civ 5 and Steam news and I was really bent on the fact that I would never play Civ5, now, however, I have actually acquainted myself a bit with Steam and also downloaded a game from there. I end this day not feeling like it's the end of the world as I know it anymore, but just feeling of concern that Civ5 will not be what I expected and that Steam will put restrictions on it that will make me not enjoy the game as much as I had hoped to.

But rather, I think things remain to be seen, and I end this day with again being certain that I will continue to follow the Civ Series and that I will buy Civ 5 and give it a fair chance after all.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@ Le Sage: I'm afraid you are way too optimistic
Check some of the concerns of modding civ V here
Also someone has linked this post too earlier...

 

[ori]

Can anyone confirm or deny that media members, moders and community leaders in the beta have been muzzled about this issue due to the NDA. I havnt seen a lot of veteran community members weighing in.

I'd expect anyone actually involved with the game development at the moment to be bound by a NDA. Anyone else would certainly be free to comment...

 

[Born Acorn]

I have actually acquainted myself a bit with Steam and also downloaded a game from there. I end this day not feeling like it's the end of the world as I know it anymore, but just feeling of concern that Civ5 will not be what I expected and that Steam will put restrictions on it that will make me not enjoy the game as much as I had hoped to.

There's some free games you can try if you have Steam installed too. They're all proper games, not demos, though some are "light" versions.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=851573


Also will people stop assuming that those who have used and like Steam are Valve employees! It's raging paranoia.

 

[Eejit]

I still play DoD and I have used Steam since it first came out. I have watched as it has grown and crashed and developed and crashed and have become more and more cynical with it over time. The fiasco when HL2 was released and they cocked up mine and a lot of other peoples credit card details was the last straw.

So you claim to have watched it develop, yet the "last straw" for you occurred 6 years ago?

AbsintheRed the modding concerns seem to be focussed on the somewhat related DLC issue, rather than Steam itself. Mods and Steam can mix quite well if the developers do things properly.

Also will people stop assuming that those who have used and like Steam are Valve employees! It's raging paranoia.

We should assume that those hating on steam are employees of Stardock, EA or GoG

 

[AbsintheRed]

AbsintheRed the modding concerns seem to be focussed on the somewhat related DLC issue, rather than Steam itself. Mods and Steam can mix quite well if the developers do things properly.

Yes of course. We agree on this
But Steam is what makes DLCs very desireable for game developers
If no forced Steam -> no DLC policy -> no modding issues

 

[Eejit]

That's not necessarily true, Dragon Age has a bunch of DLC on PC even if you didn't buy it through Steam.
Using Steam does facilitate such a move somewhat if the developer or publisher are so inclined though, rather than having to implement the entire thing by themselves.

 

[Nictel]

Steam is awesome <period>
Bought this right away, along with Civ4 and civ3 complete again because of the stupid sale.
Steam is evil that way.
So they made at least a few extra bucks by releasing it on Steam. Also achievements

 

[Auncien]

I suppose I can give ground and accept their chosen distribution method as long as Steam releases the game at the right time. Supreme Commander 2 was VERY late and did not unlock when it was supposed to even though we all had it preloaded. The publishers need to monitor things like that and make sure Steam is providing the kind of service customers expect.

I'm looking forward to Civilization V very much and though I dislike DRM of any kind, I respect the needs of the business side of game development. Steam is one of the less obnoxious methods of digital rights management (Spore activations... YUCK).

I can't wait for September.

 

[xenobiotic]

I have the gut feeling this will be the worst selling game in the series.

I consider Civ players generally quite smart and think many of us will vote with our wallet (by not buying). Matter of principle. Otherwise this destructive tendency only gets worse.

This is simply the wrong game to do this crap.

LOL. Your gut feeling is quite wrong. Take a look at the steam website. Civ4 complete is 2nd best selling game this week and civ5 preorder is #5.

Right now on steam 1000 people are playing BTS and 900 are playing civ4 (http://store.steampowered.com/stats/). None of the games seeing more play time are this old, except for the valve classics. And civ4 ISN'T even steam exclusive!

This community currrently has 236 members online. Now what effect do you think the minority of this forum who would refuse to buy civ5 on steam, no matter how awesome, will have on sales? If you answered more than 'nil' you are incorrect.

Civ4 has a total of over 3 million sales. This community has a total of 180,000 members, most of which probably don't have civ4 (or at least did not purchase it). The VAST majority of civ buyers are not the hardcore players of this forum.

 

[idolminds]

So 1,900 players out of 3 million total sales is supposed to be impressive? I think its safe to say the "VAST majority" are not playing Civ on Steam.

 

[AbsintheRed]

@xenobiotic: I copy my answer from a different thread here too
It's very fitting...

Call me an optimist, but I think a huge number of people against this **** on the fan-forums does make at least a little difference.

Sadly for 2K/Firaxis nothing else counts, just the number of saled copies. They are thinking in short term only...

But in the long term, Civ IV was such a big succes because of the modders here on CFC and other similar forums
And this way Firaxis and 2K loses the majority of their most important (modding) fans...

Btw, check out this poll.
Has really interesting results
Over 60% percent claims they don't buy Civ V this way...

 

[Mango]

This thread is hilarious. There is so much misinformation about Steam and people raging over it.

 

[Sub]

So 1,900 players out of 3 million total sales is supposed to be impressive? I think its safe to say the "VAST majority" are not playing Civ on Steam.

1,900 people are currently playing it on steam, far more people actually own it on Steam. There's no way to know how many people are currently playing the non steam version, but considering the game has been out far longer then the steam version, it's safe to say that more than 2,000 people are. Either way, it doesn't prove anything.

 

[De Begerac]

So you claim to have watched it develop, yet the "last straw" for you occurred 6 years ago?

As far as buying content through Steam yes. The fact I use Steam daily and help run a large multigaming community means of course I know nothing about Steam, it's reputation, and it's actual usuability.

Cyrano

 

[kayapo]

This is sad, really sad.

Digital download really made the gaming industry pull back on their feet as of late. It is a shame that steam is now trying to corner the competition.

I will not support this, if that means I have to wait a few years to play Civ5 so be it. I'll get it cheaper at least.

It might be much to hope that people refuse to abide by this kind of method that is not only very opressive by itself but also compromises the gaming industry as a whole.

I really really hope this gets turned around somehow.

I have many games bought through steam, never had a problem with steam, I really like my games to be digital download. But making this exclusive to steam, is just bad for business.
Either way I will never buy from steam again.