[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Just out of curiosity, as I'm only passingly familiar with Russian history, who would you recommend for an east-facing Russian leader? Obviously not Peter or Catherine.

Technically Catherine did look east when they decided to send colonists and establish permanent settlements into Alaska.

But as mentioned above other than that it would be the Soviet Union when they interacted with China, Korea etc.

 

[Zaarin]

Technically Catherine did look east when they decided to send colonists and establish permanent settlements into Alaska.

Catherine the Great as a bonus leader for Russia and Katlian of the Tlingit double pack when? (Technically Alexander I was tzar at the time, but... )

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Catherine the Great as a bonus leader for Russia and Katlian of the Tlingit double pack when? (Technically Alexander I was tzar at the time, but... )

He would look cool with his raven mask in game. Of course I mean Katlian.

 

[Zaarin]

He would look cool with his raven mask in game. Of course I mean Katlian.

Even though it's not how Katlian is depicted, I'd want a Tlingit chief to have a Chilkat blanket and a big beard--in part because it's not how people are used to thinking of Native Americans.

Spoiler :

As awesome as the carved masks are, though, I'd kind of prefer to see a cedar potlatch hat.

 

[Starina]

Just out of curiosity, as I'm only passingly familiar with Russian history, who would you recommend for an east-facing Russian leader? Obviously not Peter or Catherine.

There is no such leader before the Soviet period. And if we talk about the Soviet period, then the USSR was directed to the whole world, and not only to the east or only to the west.

I would very much like a new leader for Russia: Ivan the Terrible. Moreover, it is quite logical to be included in today's bonuses of Russia Civ 6. In our historiography, he remains one of the most influential rulers. Moreover, earlier in the series of games Civilization for Russia were the leaders of either the Russian Empire or the Soviet Union. The medieval leader of the Russian kingdom is something new.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Just out of curiosity, as I'm only passingly familiar with Russian history, who would you recommend for an east-facing Russian leader? Obviously not Peter or Catherine.

has russia really had that many? they didn’t particularly interact with the east until the soviet union period when central asia and the caucuses were annexed, they played foreign intervention games in Afghanistan, Iran and East Asia, etc.

Russian rulers after Peter the Great generally used the title of Imperator, but it was Nicholas II that picked up the title of Tzar again.

He was very east-facing, espeically his interaction with Central Asia, his development into Far East/Manchuria (I can expand this point a lot from a Chinese perspective), as well as his image of "Little Father," a very un-westernizer image; although for obvious reasons he is very unlikely to be a in-game leader.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Even though it's not how Katlian is depicted, I'd want a Tlingit chief to have a Chilkat blanket and a big beard--in part because it's not how people are used to thinking of Native Americans.

If we want blankets and facial hair Manuelito for the Navajo can work.

Spoiler :

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Even though it's not how Katlian is depicted, I'd want a Tlingit chief to have a Chilkat blanket and a big beard--in part because it's not how people are used to thinking of Native Americans.

Spoiler :

As awesome as the carved masks are, though, I'd kind of prefer to see a cedar potlatch hat.

tlingit will be awesome if they can get around the leader problem, although like Alexander noted, the Navajo would be great too

 

[Zaarin]

If we want blankets and facial hair Manuelito for the Navajo can work.

Yes, but I want Chilkat blankets specifically. Fun fact: the Chilkat weave is the most complex weave pattern known to exist. Plus Manuelito has a moustache; the Tlingit chiefs I posted have beards that would be the envy of a Calvinist.

tlingit will be awesome if they can get around the leader problem, although like Alexander noted, the Navajo would be great too

Sheiyksh I and Katlian are both good options. Sheiyksh I isn't historically attested, of course, but chiefly names were passed down from successor to successor, which means he's ultimately more historical than Dido, Kupe, or even Gilgamesh as he's presented in game.

 

[Arianrhod]

So reasons why no Burma nor Siam to appear?

Because there are only around 50-odd Civilizations in the game and a fairly long list of 'staple' Civilizations that people have grown to expect to see in Historical games over the last few decades; a list that has only increased in size as these audiences have been exposed to more history.

Pretty much every continent gets a little screwed. There are lots of very interesting and very compelling Civilization options from pretty much everywhere on the map, aside from maybe Australia; even Europe has a few decent options left (and I don't just mean Portugal and Austria), and you could easily name a pretty good handful from the Americas, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. But there are only three ways you're ever going to get a reasonably "complete" civ.

• A Civilization game with an incredibly long period of active development (VI could be this, but it remains to be seen)
• A Civilization game with less emphasis on making individual Civilizations feel unique (neither V nor VI is this)
  
• A Civilization game that either allows for very intricate modding, or is such that even someone with no skill whatsoever could make an official-seeming Civ; alongside an acceptance of mods as "part of the game". (VI might or might not be this, depending on perspective.)

Even then, it's unlikely you'll ever get "controversial" Civs (e.g. Israel, Tibet) from the first two. They'll likely be popular in any approach to scenario 3, though, alongside certain controversial leaders.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just out of curiosity, as I'm only passingly familiar with Russian history, who would you recommend for an east-facing Russian leader? Obviously not Peter or Catherine.

Not so obvious: Peter established the first Governorship in Siberia in 1708, the first official Russian government presence in Siberia, or "the East".

The problem is that Russia's move to the East, into Siberia took place largely in the 16th and 17th centuries under a bunch of Czarist mediocrities who were mostly concerned with more domestic problems like the Time of Troubles and the Old Believers religious schism. The physical 'conquest' of Siberia was actually undertaken mostly by private means: the Stroganov family, Yermak and his adventurers, and cossacks. Neither the government nor any Czar had much to do with it. Peter's move in 1708 was simply acknowledging moves that had already taken place long before.

IF there was a Czar that started Russian presence in the east it might be Ivan IV Groznyi (the "Mighty" or "Terrifying", not, strictly speaking, "Terrible") who conquered Novgorod, and therefore also 'picked up' all the Novgorodian territories to the east to the Ural Mountains. Mind you, that territory was a little like picking up French Canada - mostly filled with natives and fur trappers, with very little "on the ground" presence from Novgorod, or Moscow, until much later.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I’m guessing you’re Thai?

Yes I am. And so does @sukritact

 

[TahamiTsunami]

please don't assume that we here at Firaxis think that this is an accurate or desirable representation of history, or a ranking of the civs that deserve inclusion (or do not). One simply cannot rank history in that way

So True!

Even though it's not how Katlian is depicted, I'd want a Tlingit chief to have a Chilkat blanket and a big beard--in part because it's not how people are used to thinking of Native Americans.

As cool and iconic as that Raven hat is, Katlian did have a bit more in his closet including what looks like the cedar potlatch hats you mentioned! The sources I've seen have called what he's wearing in the picture a Raven's Tail robe and I'm not sure if it's a type of Chilkat blanket or not? Regardless if it is or isn't, given Katlian's heritage and status, he'd almost certainly have some Chilkat blankets so it would be a relatively safe bet to have him wear one anyway. Another worthy Tlingit leader named Chief Shotridge was reported to have at least over a hundred Chilkat blankets if the sources are correct! I'm not sure how old Katlian was when he died but Shotridge was fairly old (with an additional bullet wound in his cheek) so you could have him or an older Katlian for a solid beard!

Catherine the Great as a bonus leader for Russia and Katlian of the Tlingit double pack when? (Technically Alexander I was tzar at the time, but... )

I know she's similar to Peter, but I'd actually kinda possibly definitely want that pack! Her or Ivan the Terrible for sure (both in a future installment perhaps).

 

[sukritact]

As cool as Siam* or Burma would be, I honestly think North America has a more pressing need for indigenous civs. There's basically only the Cree, and the Aztecs if you get really pedantic. I want the Iroquois, or the Lakota, or the Shoshone, or the Haida, or the Chinook, etc.

Failing that I think the Gulf of Guinea could do with some filling out: so many potential civs there...

* Besides, I've already made 3 leaders for them, and 2 of them are voiced and animated!

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Not so obvious: Peter established the first Governorship in Siberia in 1708, the first official Russian government presence in Siberia, or "the East".

The problem is that Russia's move to the East, into Siberia took place largely in the 16th and 17th centuries under a bunch of Czarist mediocrities who were mostly concerned with more domestic problems like the Time of Troubles and the Old Believers religious schism. The physical 'conquest' of Siberia was actually undertaken mostly by private means: the Stroganov family, Yermak and his adventurers, and cossacks. Neither the government nor any Czar had much to do with it. Peter's move in 1708 was simply acknowledging moves that had already taken place long before.

IF there was a Czar that started Russian presence in the east it might be Ivan IV Groznyi (the "Mighty" or "Terrifying", not, strictly speaking, "Terrible") who conquered Novgorod, and therefore also 'picked up' all the Novgorodian territories to the east to the Ural Mountains. Mind you, that territory was a little like picking up French Canada - mostly filled with natives and fur trappers, with very little "on the ground" presence from Novgorod, or Moscow, until much later.

1. What made Tsar Peter took Siberian politics seriously? Was it because Qing China (Under Emperor Kang Xi precisely) also 'extorted' Siberia as well without any regards to Russian presence there and there were wars between Qing banner army VS Newly Reformed Imperial Russian Army? this also made it to Jin Yong (金庸, Real name Louis Cha (查良鏞)) Wuxia novel 'The Deer and the Cauldon (鹿鼎記) ' featuring Wei Xiaobao (韋小寶). and in that novel. Wei Xiabao did have a mission in Russia and eventually mated a Russian princess (Sofiya in particular, later in the novel Weikun is a catalyst leading to Pyotr Velikui's downfall). Did this ever happen?? (or even if Wei himself can speak Russian?). in one version Sofia is blonde, on the other is black hair, and in one version starred by Chinese cast posing as white.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=311443419831031

Who do you think is a better leader? Peter I or Kang Xi?
2. And what 'Groznui' acutally means? (too bad I don't have Russian Cyrillic keyboard installed because I don't know the correct keyboard layout mew!) why in Anglophonic world Ivan Groznui is translated 'Ivan the Terrible' while you prefer to call him with conqueror honorific 'Ivan the Mighty' instead

 

[sukritact]

Why in Anglophonic world Ivan Groznui is translated 'Ivan the Terrible' while you prefer to call him with conqueror honorific 'Ivan the Mighty' instead

Because it's "terrible" as in "inspiring terror", not terrible as in "awful". But then the English language shifted without the epithet shifting alongside it.

 

[Starina]

Because it's "terrible" as in "inspiring terror", not terrible as in "awful". But then the English language shifted without the epithet shifting alongside it.

Yes, in Russian, "Грозный" (en. Terrible) - instilling fear, harsh, strict, threatening danger, death.
The words "грозный" (en. Terrible, adjective) and "гроза" (en. Thunderstorm, noun) are very similar both in writing and in meaning. I don't know for sure, but I think that the origin of the words is the same

Just look at his look. Ivan Vasilievich looks at you with meaning

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Because it's "terrible" as in "inspiring terror", not terrible as in "awful". But then the English language shifted without the epithet shifting alongside it.

Even in the early 20th century, we have "I am Oz, the great and terrible!"

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Yes, in Russian, "Грозный" (en. Terrible) - instilling fear, harsh, strict, threatening danger, death.
The words "грозный" (en. Terrible, adjective) and "гроза" (en. Thunderstorm, noun) are very similar both in writing and in meaning. I don't know for sure, but I think that the origin of the words is the same

Just look at his look. Ivan Vasilievich looks at you with meaning
View attachment 571335

I will reiterate here my support for Ivan Grozhnyi as an Alternate Leader for Russia: potential military, religious, cultural, and scientific Uniques: he built St Basil's unique cathedral, established the first printing plant in Moscow, formed the first units of Streltsi musket/axe pike and shot, and personally wrote dozens of religious and political documents. Not too terrible at all.

@sukritact and others nailed it. The Russian word has the root meaning of 'terrifying' and also 'mighty' because (and this says something about Russian attitudes towards power) anything with great power is also terrifying - benign rulers need not apply.
"Groza", or Thunder(storm) was also the codename for a proposed Soviet pre-emptory offensive against Germany in 1941, but there is great debate over whether it was serious or simply a map exercise.

A for Peter's 'move' into Siberia, it was more simply to establish central control over the rather unruly Russians already out there than any concerted move to the east. The Siberians and Siberia already had a reputation for being largely 'outside authority' and Peter was not about to have that. It was another generation plus, under Catherine II, I believe, before any official settlements and emigration of any kind was started into the area, and not really until the end of the century before the notorious 'exile to Siberia' started to become a thing, and then as much to get more population into the area as punishment for disobedience. I believe the first Mass Deportations for political dissent were the Decembrists in the early 19th century, over a century after Peter's first Siberian Action.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

As cool as Siam* or Burma would be, I honestly think North America has a more pressing need for indigenous civs. There's basically only the Cree, and the Aztecs if you get really pedantic. I want the Iroquois, or the Lakota, or the Shoshone, or the Haida, or the Chinook, etc.

Failing that I think the Gulf of Guinea could do with some filling out: so many potential civs there...

* Besides, I've already made 3 leaders for them, and 2 of them are voiced and animated!

I’m annoyed that the PNW still hasn’t gotten a native american civ after all this time. Sure, the PNW tribes aren’t as well known. Sure, there are more well known options elsewhere, but the PNW was home to the most cultural diversity north of Mesoamerica. The Chinook and Coast Salish (and maybe the Haida as well?) come in-built with good leader choices as well.

I’d hope that the Navajo are the native american civ in the game, but chances are it’s the haudenosausee (don’t think i spelled that right lol)