1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. LoneRebel

    LoneRebel Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,318
    Location:
    Distinguished and Ever Loyal City
    My understanding is that the territory Siam had to give up to Britain and France was mostly territory they'd taken from other nations in the first place (such as the lands inhabited by ethnic Malays south of the Kra Isthmus), and not inhabited by ethnic Thai, so they could afford to lose it.

    So that means my country has a culture then? Aww, how nice of him! :)

    Vietnamese coffee is growing more popular here too, in addition to the already highly popular Taiwanese bubble teas.

    Anyways, can't wait for the reveal tomorrow. Maybe they'll add Tondo as a city-state? One can dream.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  2. almughavar

    almughavar Political commissar

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam
    No no, before the time of Nguyễn dynasty, Vietnam simply "vietnamized/vietized" the conquered territories, instead of sinicizing the populace like what Nguyễn dynasty did to Khmer people. Before Lê dynasty was established, Vietnam was defeated by China's Ming dynasty and was annexed by China in 20 years. In that period, Chinese tried their best to sinicize Vietnamese, destroyed much of Vietnam's unique culture, writings, customs..., so even when later on Vietnamese was able to defeat the Ming to regain independence, Vietnam's culture was severely damaged and many parts of it were unrecoverable. That was the main reason why after that, Vietnam was influenced by China to that unprecedented scale, simply because Vietnam's culture was damaged beyond recovery, eventually they had forgotten much of the old ways and the majority of the records were destroyed by the occupiers who was hell bent on wiping out Vietnamese national identity entirely. Because of that, they couldn't help being influenced by Chinese's culture, thoughts and philosophies.

    So yeah, before Ming invasion, Vietnam still had a unique enough culture, not influenced by China and Confucianism to the extent of Nguyễn dynasty.
     
    Meluhhan likes this.
  3. AaronTBD

    AaronTBD Warlord

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Messages:
    175
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that, while it's not impossible, the replacement of Babylon will probably not be in the Middle East.
     
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    6,931
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    If not I think that Sukhothai could work keeping the same suzerain bonus and giving us another for SE Asia.
     
  5. DogeEnricoDandolo

    DogeEnricoDandolo King

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2017
    Messages:
    718
    Gender:
    Male
    The actual joke is based on a (rumored) exchange between Laotian and Vietnamese representatives at an ASEAN summit regarding who should host the following year ASEAN summit which would place an emphasis on maritime security within the region:
    "Laos: I want to host that one.
    Vietnam: Dude, you're the only one in SEA without maritime access.
    Laos: So? You hosted the summit on Culture last year."

    All jokes aside, it is not like we don't have culture, it is just that it's very difficult for foreigners to pinpoint one thing that screams "Wow, that's Vietnamese", compared to other major cultural players of the region. Just take architecture as an example, you don't need to be in Asia to be able to imagine what Chinese, Thai or Japanese architecture look like, but it is quite hard to imagine traditional Vietnamese structures, although our history dates back 4000 years. Viet architecture, and culture in general, invokes a sense of idyll and serenity, so it is not "out-there", in-your-face kind of awe-inspiring, so it is not exactly the most prominent or noticeable through marketing, unless you are actually there to see and experience it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
    Jeppetto, mitsho, Kjimmet and 3 others like this.
  6. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    6,931
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    I think it all comes down to the playstyle in game, which I think could lean into culture though probably more focused on military.

    What's been discussed a lot on this thread is the possibility of a water puppet theater being the unique infrastructure. And as far as I'm aware that's completely unique to Vietnam so that is something right there that screams "that's Vietnamese" and it being either a cultural improvement, building, or district.
     
    sweetbrown89 likes this.
  7. Andrew Johnson [FXS]

    Andrew Johnson [FXS] Warlord

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    257
    Gender:
    Male
    Sort of. More like "nations as we know them are a European invention. When presenting oneself as a 'nation' became the only game in town, the Siamese quickly locked on to the idea and reorganized their own historiography [the not wholesale invention of, but the elaboration of the story of Sukhothai] as a justification for an expansion over those areas that had yet to adopt that notion as well as a reason why they should be exempt from European colonization". Other places did something similar (Finland, for example), though under very different regional and historical situations. Positing "a people, a history, a territory" was a claim towards existence in the present and in the future, not the reflection of a past unity - as Thongchai Winichakul writes, "a model for, not of" the nation. As far as ethnic Thais... again, that concept didn't really exist, though Tai languages are and were spoken in Laos, Shan states of Burma, as well as Lanna and parts of Yunnan. But ethnicity is always an invention of those seeking to lay claim to something - Siamese claimed Cambodia as "ethnically Thai" during the irredentist period, for instance.

    So it is with culture. We can say Vietnam has "a culture" if it claims and promotes one, which I think it does today, regardless of whether or not Vietnamese had a script (Nom is based on Chinese, but is not Chinese, for instance) or an entirely indigenously-invented architecture. Most of Southeast Asia, too, had scripts and architecture taken from Indic languages! Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, Laos, island SE Asia - all places that all have their own distinct national and extra-national culture!
     
    AsH2, Uberfrog, VermelhoRed and 4 others like this.
  8. Lonecat Nekophrodite

    Lonecat Nekophrodite Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    1,023
    Gender:
    Male
    Did Ensemble/Relic recruited one of theirs to work on AoE3?
    About RTS culture. here in Thailand, Westwood-era Command & Conquer Series (Especially RedAlert2 and Yuri's Revenge), and Blizzard's Starcraft and Warcraft3 were once a common internet cafe games. EA's mishandlings of C&C did prevent C&C3 the same success here (and maybe elsewhere) even there's marketing campaign with an ad page featuring 'Redzone' Tiberium infested BKK Landmarks of 2007 which rarely reflects the actual google map layering masks released in 2008-2009 (fan made or EA official i'm not sure but I was once played with it) that listed the entirety of country in Yellow zone with Bangkok a conquerable city in World Domination mode in Kane's Wrath expansion pack.
    Too bad RTS isn't a big hit here anymore. Everyone here goes to Mobile MOBA.

    I don't know how welll Civ series is doing here. but Many who played Civ6 here and either steam purchased the game or otherwise downloaded a pirated versions began in Civ5 (which it is the first Civ game i played it SERIOUSLY since Civ2, I learned more of History on Civ5, along with other sources, enough to judge that many historical facts presented in Civilopedia is more or less inaccurate.)

    I have no problems with astriding leader. In fact i'm quite disappointed that Charlemagne isn't included as such but Eleanore did (And this in fact rendered both France and England without playable male leaderships).

    Those lands were not actually parts of Siam. In truth the concepts of 'Territories' were very new in Mekhong Asia, and those 'land ceded to Britain and France' were actually vassals, (City States). Before the second wave of Colonization in Industrial Era hitting Asia. 'City' is more important to 'territories'. and ownership is judged by whether or not a king (or more precisely Hegemon King) ruling from a specific city can appoint his servants to run this or that city, his power (and the might of a kingdom as a whole) is judged by the farthest cities away from the seat of power can the king appoints his servant to run it. Any city outside his 'jurisdiction' might either ran by local leaders not appointed by the king but can ally with him (for his own safety, not to be conquered) under certain terms and conditions including to pay tributes as required by the King at minimum (that leader may contribute more of its 'excess' to win the King's favor), and to send armies as per Royal Ordonnances in times of war. Under this conditions, It is possible to have rogue cities, or outlaw cities built by thugs, bandits, outlaws, or even escaped rebellions because the King was unable to put them down for various reasons (including foreign relationships with others if he doesn't want a big war between his and neighgbouring kingdom (s) YET)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2020
    Andrew Johnson [FXS] likes this.
  9. almughavar

    almughavar Political commissar

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Ho Chi Minh city, Vietnam
    In that case it’s very likely to be an imitation of a certain “Radio Yerevan joke”:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Yerevan_jokes
     
  10. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,926
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    Palmyra, Elba, Tadmor, Qadesh, Carchemish, Washukanni, Troy, Arbela - all of these could be city states. There's plenty of choice and honestly, a Babylonian list doesn't even need to include Akkad.
     
    Zaarin and Kimiimaro like this.
  11. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    761
    Gender:
    Male
    As if the entire region was just populated by city-States and every empire we had here (except maybe the Assyrian one) was just a city-State hegemonizing over the other for a short time, but the rest still being lots and lots of city-States more or less independent from each other... It would be like "I wonder which Italian/Greek city-State they could add for replacing X or Y city-State". Look, there was nothing but city-States in this region at this time.
     
  12. Wielki Hegemon

    Wielki Hegemon Emperor

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Messages:
    1,225
    Location:
    Warsaw
    Radio Yerevan jokes were very popular in Poland :)
    I have found once this saying in Tiziano Terzani's book "A Fortune-Teller Told Me" (btw. great book about SE Asia).
    "The Vietnamese plant the rice, the Cambodians watch it grown and the Lao listen to it grow".
    Since then I love Lao :lol:
     
    LoneRebel likes this.
  13. Andrew Johnson [FXS]

    Andrew Johnson [FXS] Warlord

    Joined:
    May 15, 2020
    Messages:
    257
    Gender:
    Male
    I've heard that one too! It's usually attributed to "a French colonial official," though I wasn't able to find a source and it only appears recently in guide books and the like! Fantastic to hear it traced down to Terzani (whose work I do not know and which I'll check out!).

    The French had a minimal footprint in Laos and Cambodia, usually appointing Vietnamese administrators to work there (and also being there for a time that was relatively brief, in colonial terms) and reflecting a lack of interest once the French figured out that the Mekong led "nowhere" (it leads fantastic places, but not to the Chinese heartland, which is where the French wanted to go). While there's a lot of French influence in Vietnam (Catholicism, coffee, the script), there's not nearly as much in the rest of Indochina. Present-day ethnic tensions between ethnic Vietnamese and Khmer in Cambodia are also rooted in this history.
     
  14. AaronTBD

    AaronTBD Warlord

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Messages:
    175
    Gender:
    Male
    The leaks were true
     
    SirMediocrity likes this.
  15. Birch617

    Birch617 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    163
    Maybe Trung Nhi would reuse the code from the Heroes game mode for the leader ability of Trung Trac, like an unique hero unit for the vietnamese
     
  16. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    761
    Gender:
    Male
    Highly improbable. Why would they tie an ability of a civ to a mechanic in another, not free update? Enough people are already complaining that some of NFP DLCs needs GS or R&F to play (like you need DLC to play another DLC), so needing or intertying a DLC with another DLC would probably never occur.
     
  17. AaronTBD

    AaronTBD Warlord

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Messages:
    175
    Gender:
    Male
    Well this aged well
     
    SirMediocrity and Guandao like this.
  18. Birch617

    Birch617 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    163
    Didn't Ethiopia use some code /mechanics from one of the secret societies; same with one of the persona packs
     
  19. Foxforch

    Foxforch Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    22
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Sweden
    I knew Babylon would make it to Civ6. It was the only one of the original civs that was missing. Hype is real!
     
    Hoppip22 likes this.
  20. batusay

    batusay Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2017
    Messages:
    26
    Two new improvements are the mahavihara and the trading dome. I take it that they would be babylon's but a quick google search didn't show any connection between them. What gives?
     

Share This Page