pre-release info Civilization VII - Content Spreadsheet Thread - Civ overview!

[notNamed]

I can’t tell if you’re being cheeky, but Goryeo would better fit Exploration, and the bell is a Antiquity Wonder, no?

You probably are, so excuse me in advance.

Oh, you're right.

But there's really no possible reason to tie that bell with Goryeo. No legends, no personalities, not the locale. Not even minor events. It was built during Unified Silla and first moved by Joseon.
So short of making some obscure connection, they could intend to use Goryeo (918–1392) in Antiquity? It would be a weird move but no less so than the Angkorian Khmer (800-1400, chiefly focused on Angkor Wat/Champa wars around 1200) and Mississipian cultures (1000-1600, chiefly focused on Cahokia circa 1050-1200) already moved into Antiquity in lieu of their historical era.

One last fact that seems to point in that direction I also had on mind was an observation made by gamespark.jp where they mention how it's strange that Himiko doesn't have Han as her legacy path. Which again suggests keeping the Han (the only East Asian nation in Antiquity) open for someone else. And a potential Korean leader would fit right in (having a primary Goryeo and secondary Han legacy path).

 

[gdr_willter]

We have the introductory narration for Emile Bell (Bell of Bongdeoksa Temple).

It includes a custom music track and the narration talks about Goryeo. "In the midst of the snow, the light of Goryeo hovers, an icy temple bell resounds echoes of the old kingdom."
However, Emile Bell has no relation to Goryeo. It was cast in Silla, by Silla monarchs, housed in Gyeongju (moved within the province a few times before being placed in the museum) which is in the south-eastern tip of modern South Korea. Almost as far away from Goryeo as you could possibly get.

I think that's fairly substatial evidence to expect Goryeo among the 4 civs of the wonderless March DLC pack.

I'll doubt it, because it placed in the Antiquity Age - which is hardly prospected to place Goryeo.

The quotation said "old kingdom" which means Silla. I don't know actual sourse of if because the streamer covered the text box, but I can guess it is written by a visitor from China or somewhere to Goryeo. He heard the sound of Emile Bell and he knew it is the legacy of old Silla.

 

[moysturfurmer]

Oh, you're right.

But there's really no possible reason to tie that bell with Goryeo. No legends, no personalities, not the locale. Not even minor events. It was built during Unified Silla and first moved by Joseon.
So short of making some obscure connection, they could intend to use Goryeo (918–1392) in Antiquity? It would be a weird move but no less so than the Angkorian Khmer (800-1400, chiefly focused on Angkor Wat/Champa wars around 1200) and Mississipian cultures (1000-1600, chiefly focused on Cahokia circa 1050-1200) already moved into Antiquity in lieu of their historical era.

One last fact that seems to point in that direction I also had on mind was an observation made by gamespark.jp where they mention how it's strange that Himiko doesn't have Han as her legacy path. Which again suggests keeping the Han (the only East Asian nation in Antiquity) open for someone else. And a potential Korean leader would fit right in (having a primary Goryeo and secondary Han legacy path).

Well the quote is written about the nostalgia for Silla during the Goryeo Empire, no? Like the feelings the bell evoke? I believe that’s in line with some of the quotes from 5 & 6, which were written by (relatively) contemporary peoples writing about the Wonders of the past. If I recall correctly.


Edit: yeah, Pyramids in Civ 6 for instance:

“From the heights of these pyramids, forty centuries look down on us.”
—Napoleon Bonaparte

 

[gdr_willter]

One last fact that seems to point in that direction I also had on mind was an observation made by gamespark.jp where they mention how it's strange that Himiko doesn't have Han as her legacy path. Which again suggests keeping the Han (the only East Asian nation in Antiquity) open for someone else. And a potential Korean leader would fit right in (having a primary Goryeo and secondary Han legacy path).

This can't be such a reasonable choice when we have the well-documented old Korean dynasty, Silla.

And I saw that the IP list include Goguryeo, Silla and Goryeo. Make Goryeo as an Antiquity Civ at the same Age of its ancestor IPs will looks so weird.

 

[notNamed]

Well the quote is written about the nostalgia for Silla during the Goryeo Empire, no? Like the feelings the bell evoke? I believe that’s in line with some of the quotes from 5 & 6, which were written by (relatively) contemporary peoples writing about the Wonders of the past.

Yeah, if it's an attributed quote then they can shift the perspective (of the narration) as needed. I forgot about that.

And I saw that the IP list include Goguryeo, Silla and Goryeo. Make Goryeo as an Antiquity Civ at the same Age of its ancestor IPs will looks so weird.

IPs themselves can be changed as needed. Like how someone noticed we have both Byzantines and Ottomans on the IP list, one of whom build Constantinople and the other Istanbul... in the same era.
It's already weird even with the IPs in place and likewise would require Byzantines and Ottomans coming in at once not to keep the discrepancy going (assuming both IPs get deleted while Ottomans get put into Modern to prevent this successor paradox).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'll doubt it, because it placed in the Antiquity Age - which is hardly prospected to place Goryeo.

The quotation said "old kingdom" which means Silla. I don't know actual sourse of if because the streamer covered the text box, but I can guess it is written by a visitor from China or somewhere to Goryeo. He heard the sound of Emile Bell and he knew it is the legacy of old Silla.

I agree. The way it's worded is that Goryeo, if planned, would be for Exploration.

 

[gdr_willter]

Yeah, if it's an attributed quote then they can shift the perspective (of the narration) as needed. I forgot about that.


IPs themselves can be changed as needed. Like how someone noticed we have both Byzantines and Ottomans on the IP list, one of whom build Constantinople and the other Istanbul... in the same era.

At least they competed at the same period of history. Goryeo founded 250 years later than the fall of Goguryeo.

 

[Black Gate]

I wouldn't read too heavily into the quotes. Sometimes they get picked because there's one word that fits the wonder and sounds neat. The Porcelain Tower in Civ5 had "Things always seem fairer when we look back at them, and it is out of that inaccessible tower of the past that Longing leans and beckons." So I wouldn't be shocked if it was picked because Korean kingdom + talks about a temple bell.

 

[gdr_willter]

Update: it is confirmed as the poem of Hwang Jini, the Joseon female poet.

 

[notNamed]

Update: it is confirmed as the poem of Hwang Jini, the Joseon female poet.

Yeah, seems like it's completely disconnected from the wonder itself.

Song of Songdo [Goryeo capital]

In the midst of the snow,
the light of Goryeo hovers.

An icy temple bell resounds
echoes of the old kingdom.
The southern tower stands,
in solitude, as I am,

and beyond the ruins below,
I watch chimneys bloom.

 

[Archanist]

José Rizal did, though. (It's a shame that American imperialism practically made Spanish in the Philippines (and French in Louisiana) go extinct).

Also, many of the "Spanish" settlers who colonised and participated in the conquest of the Philippines weren't exclusively European Spaniards. They came along with Hispanic American (including Mexican) Mestizos, Natives, African Slaves and White Hispanic Americans from the New World.

José Rizal had some Spanish ancestors who might have had some relationship with New Spain and the other Pacific island on the route the galleons did between Manila and Mexico.

Yeah, that reasons you said are why I think his civ choices will be Spain or Mexico. Someone mentioned he also unlocks/goes to Hawaii and that's because there's a huge Filipino diaspora there.

 

[gdr_willter]

Yeah, seems like it's completely disconnected from the wonder itself.

Considering the unique output of it also not so connected with Emile Bell itself, I'm okay with the quote from the Korean poem about Korean bell. I think the Emile Bell in base game represents the whole complexity of Korean history, not only the bell itself and the Silla history. It maybe will have some rework when they need the specific wonder(s) for the Korean Civ(s).

 

[sonicmyst]

Yeah, that reasons you said are why I think his civ choices will be Spain or Mexico. Someone mentioned he also unlocks/goes to Hawaii and that's because there's a huge Filipino diaspora there.

There is a Rizal statue in Hawaii if that makes a fitting connection.

https://flic.kr/p/8dbkdP

 

[AriochIV]

I've already listed 75 IP's, and I see new ones in every video... so I suspect there may be hundreds and it's almost a waste of time trying to list them all. Since their graphics and abilities are generic by type, for Firaxis it's just a matter of making a list of names and assigning a type and some unit assets.

I'll continue to make a note of the ones I see, for now... if nothing else, it gives a decent indication of which civilizations are not coming soon.

Speaking of which, I just saw Stockholm.

 

[moysturfurmer]

There is a Rizal statue in Hawaii if that makes a fitting connection.

https://flic.kr/p/8dbkdP

Cant help but be reminded of the Ashurbinapal statue in San Francisco

 

[sonicmyst]

Cant help but be reminded of the Ashurbinapal statue in San Francisco

Ashurbanipal leads America in Civ 7 (soon)

 

[evonannoredars]

I feel like the sheer amount of IPs is a good sign that they're incredibly easy to add and not likely to affect them being added as full civs later down the line.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Raptor's Exploration video has Stockholm as an Exploration Science IP and Dzungaria as a military IP

FYI, the apex of the Dzungar Mongols (1635-1759) was around the same time as the apex of the Qing (1644-1799), which is a Modern Age civ (it was Qing that conquered the Dzungars).

Judging from the fact that Dzungars, Byzantine and Ottomans all existed as Exploration IPs, I think it is safe to assume that the IP list does not necessarily correspond to their historical periods, and if some of these IPs are going to become civs, the Age the civ eventually belongs to will likely not be the same as the age that the IP used to belong.

Yamatai - Yamatai

Now, this is interesting. We seem to have Yamatai as an IP, even though we also have Himiko as a leader, who was first and foremost the queen of Yamatai. Except to see more civ-less leaders with their corresponding country or culture showing up as an IP.

 

[uppi]

I'll continue to make a note of the ones I see, for now... if nothing else, it gives a decent indication of which civilizations are not coming soon.

Considering that the strongest candidates for Crossroads of the World (Silla, Goths, Tonga, Assyria) are all on the IP list, I don't think that is the case. Maybe it is even the reverse: They have to be on the list to be coming soon.

 

[Uberfrog]

Considering that the strongest candidates for Crossroads of the World (Silla, Goths, Tonga, Assyria) are all on the IP list, I don't think that is the case. Maybe it is even the reverse: They have to be on the list to be coming soon.

Which is what I find baffling- surely someone had to write Civilopedia pages for all these IPs? And they will all have to be renamed and replaced within months?

Or maybe that’s it, research done and they can just copy paste it into the full civ’s article later!