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Civilizations Reborn

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by 1SDAN, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    New Update: A mine and road appears on the Phoenician Copper when AI Carthage has their Carthaginian Settler Event

    This was more or less intended. I wanted to create a choice for players between ahistorically switching to Despotism and ahistorically switching to Republic early on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2019
  2. Publicola

    Publicola Prince

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    For the human player, couldn't they just build their capital at Carthage then plant a second city immediately at Kition (the copper island) to get the resource? I've seen plenty of guides encouraging people to settle Kition even before the copper was needed for the Great Cothon.
     
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  3. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    You still have to settle your first city in Phoenicia IIRC. Leoreth made it so that if you don't have a city in your core when you settle Carthage, your Core won't move to the Maghreb.
     
  4. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    New Update

    Merged latest DoC
    Fixed an oversight in some AI related code
     
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  5. Publicola

    Publicola Prince

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    Good to know. Is Kition in the 'Phoenicia' core region, or does the first city need to be Sur?
     
  6. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Use the stability map button. Anything in blue is Core. When you settle Carthage, if something is not in blue, your core won't switch.
     
  7. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    By the way, even Rome was collapsing pretty soon in my games. I never saw Byzantium to be born, since I started playing in your great modmod.
    But if you didn't touch anything there, this might be caused by the difficulty level. Perhaps there are more barbs on Emperor and AI can't cope. I had barbs in one big area from Spain to Persia once, Constantinopol was razed.
    Could try the autoplay in the main branch later to compare.
     
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  8. Krieger-FS

    Krieger-FS Chieftain

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    Suggestion: The Andean Civs

    After making some research, I'm proposing some Andean civs to add to the game. Before continuing the proposals, I have to stress that we new very little about Ancient Andean history. The fact that these peoples didn't have a writing system implies that we simply don't know their languagues or how they named their cities and even themselves. All the knowlodge that we currently have is basically the result of archeological findings made quite recently and sparsed oral traditions. Thus, many of the names here are actually from Inca and Spanish colonial times. Also, I've based my proposals on wikipedia info, few handbooks of Andean civilizations and some mods of other games (like Civ V's Patria Grande).

    As you all know, there is several main Andean civs that could be represented in the game from 3000 BCE to the Inca spawn. Putting historically, we have: Caral/Norte Chico (pre-ceramic, 4000-1800 BCE), Chavín (early horizon/formative period, 1800-200 BCE), Moche and Nazca (early intemediate, 200 BCE-600 CE), Tiwanaku and Wari (middle horizon, 600-1000 CE), Chimú/Chimor (late intermediate, 1000-1475CE) and Inca (late horizon, 1475-1534 CE). My focus here is on four of these that I think would be more interesting to play: Caral/Norte Chico, Tiwanaku, Wari and Chimú/Chimor.

    1) Caral/Norte Chico
    Spoiler :

    The Caral/Norte Chico is the oldest-known civilization in the Americas, being contemporary to the Egyptian pyramids. Apparently, they were politically organized in city-states with monumental works, the main ones were Caral and Aspero, and also were famous for their textile art. In gameplay perspectives, I envision the Caral/North Chico as a kind of mixture of Babylonia and Harappa: an insolate OCC with short time to achieve its UHVs. This limited gameplay time and the fact that we know very little about them makes their case for addition not that strong as others here and perhaps they could be a player-only civ. Nonetheless, they could be useful for making more difficult to the player achieve a domination victory with early civs.

    Spawn/Location: 3000 BCE/Caral (1N of Lima)
    Leader: Wiracocha
    (We do not know any Caral/North Chico names, as their languague and civilization disappeared by 1800-1500 BCE. This name reflects the found images of the so-called Staff God, which was known to the Incas as Wiracocha or Viracocha)
    Color/Symbol: ?/Andean step pyramid?

    UP: The power of Maritime Foundation (coastal titles give + 1 food, sea resources have + 2 hammers, Whaling Boats improvement avaible with Sailing).
    Refers to the theory that the sea-based activities were essential to the development of this civilization, given their reliance on seafood. This theory is disputed nowadays, so I'm not that sure that we should use this UP.

    UU: Ayllu (replaces worker, + 10 culture to the nearest city when builds an improvement).
    Ayllu is a traditional social organization of Andean peoples, similar to a clan, which seems to exist since Caral/North Chico.

    UB: Shicra Pyramids (replaces pagan temple, gives + 2 culture and + 1 hammers)
    Shicra was a construction technique employed by this civilization to build its monuments, particularly their step pyramids.

    UHV:
    1) The Andean Craddle of Civilization: capital with developing culture by 1800 BCE.
    2) The Maritime Coast and Agricultural Inland: have access to four different resorces by 1500 BCE.
    3) The Ancient Andean Metropolis: have a capital with 5 population and 5 different buildings by 1500 BCE

    Notes:
    * Like the Harappa, cities should be razed when the civ collapses, so we can open space to later civs.
    * Historically this civ existed between 3500-1800 BCE, so the typical gameplay, extending to the maximum, will be short (50-60 turns) on Normal speed.


    2) Tiwanaku
    Spoiler :

    Tiwanaku was a city founded near Tticaca lake around 110 CE that became one of the most powerful polities in the Andes between 550-1000 CE. Apparently they were a theocratic state that expanded mostly using "soft power", becoming a multi-cultural empire and place of pilgrimage. The idea is to offer a cultural gameplay in the Andes, while you have to face challenges by the more militaristic and contemporaneous Wari empire (see bellow).

    Spawn/Location: 110 CE/Tiwanaku (1SE of Titicaca)
    Leader: Malku Huyustus
    (Huyustus was the only Tiwanaku name that we know and he was probably a chief. Malku is a title that means "wise one" or "emperor")
    Color/Symbol: ?/Gate of the Sun or a Chakana.

    UP: The power of Suka Qullo (farms can be build in any land title and have + 1 culture when worked).
    Suka Qullo was an agricultural technique of flooded-raised field with an impressive yield production.

    UU: Ayllu (replaces worker, + 10 culture to the nearest city when builds an improvement, can enter desert) or Sisqeno (replaces Spy, avaible with Priesthood, produces + 2 culture and + 1GPP [Great Prophet] per turn when stationed on foreign cities to the nearest friendly city)
    Again, as we know very little about the social organization of Tiwanaku besides the common Andean traditions, we can use the Ayllu here, the only difference that they also can enter desert titles outside cultural borders (Tiwanaku colonized some desertic areas in South Peru/North Chile). Sisqeno is supposely the Puqino (possible Tiwanaku language) word for priest-healer.

    UB: Kalasasaya (replaces Monument, provides an artist and priest slot, + 10% GP generation) or Chatallata (replaces pagan temple, identical bonus to previous option)
    The first is one kind of "sunken temple/court" that exists in Tiwanaku, while the second is the supposed Puqino word for huaca (wak'a in Quechua), something like "sacred place" that was used for religious buildings (particularly the pyramid styled buildings) and natural locations.

    UHV:
    1) The Great Andine Theocracy: build the Gate of Sun* and settle a Great Prophet in your capital by 900 CE.
    2) The Multi-Cultural Empire: have two cities with refined culture by 1000 CE.
    3) The Splendor of Tiwanaku: experiece two golden ages by 1100 CE.

    Notes:
    * We would also add the Gate of Sun as wonder (requires Cement and Corn, double production with Stone, + 8 culture, starts a Golden Age, + 2 GGP [Great Prophet]).
    * Around 900 CE we can have an increasing rate of spawn of native units near southern areas of Tiwanaku, to represent the arrival of the Aymara peoples, whose migration seems to have contributed to the fall of the empire and abandoment of Tiwanaku.


    3) Wari
    Spoiler :

    The Wari were the first of Andean polities that could be considered an empire, even though we have some doubts about the precise political configuration of this civilization. Nonetheless, they were only surpassed in territory by the Incas and were, in many aspects, predecessors of them. They were renowned by crafstmanship (especially with textiles and metalworks) used terraced agriculture and established a road system to conect their cities, which included religious centers such Pachamac (near modern Lima) and commercial centers such as Piquillacta (near Cuzco). Apparently they were somewhat hostile to Tiwanaku, but we don't know if they fought each other in wars. The gameplay for Wari would be something like empire-building, involving both warfare and peaceful development.

    Spawn/Location: 400 CE/Wari (1W of Cuzco)
    Leader: Wari Capac or Aklla Saynata
    (We do not know any leaders or their language. These two names refers more properly to two Wari mummies found: the Señor Huari (Lord Wari) of Vilcabamba and La Dama de la Máscara (The Lady in the Mask). I tried to poorly translate these names in Quechua to make they at least seem better: Capac is something like "leader" or "mighty", Aklla is "woman" and Saynata is "mask" or "masked ball").
    Color/Symbol: ?/Condor

    UP: The power of the Andenes (hills provide + 1 food and mountains provide + 1 food and + 1 production).
    Andenes is the Spanish plural of Andén, the terraced field. Apparently the Wari were the first polity to extensively use this agricultural practice and made it common within the Andes centuries before the Inca.

    UU: Wari Archer (replaces Archer, 4 Strengh and + 25% attacking hills).
    While we know that the Wari were more military-oriented than Tiwanaku, we know little about their military forces. This proposed archer refers to an stone carved image that you can see here. Archery was more common in jungle areas by the time of the Incas, who preferred to use slings as projectile weapon. Other weapons that were used are axes, clubs, spears and spear-throwers (the last was less used by Inca times) and we have a reasoble overview about Andean weapons here and here. Doing the same poor Quechua translation that we did with the leaders, we would have something like Picta Aucac (or Auqaq, "bow" + "warrior")

    UB: Colcas (replaces granary, + 10% military production and have a statesman slot).
    Colcas were kinds of warehouses built in Piquillacta that supposely served as large storages both for military and worker forces.

    UHV:
    1) Wari Arts: have one gold, dyes, cotton and llama [sheep] resource and have at least 500 culture by 900 CE
    2) The First Andine Empire: control three cities connected with roads and build a barracks and colcas in each of them by 1000 CE.
    3) The Great Centers: have at least two cities with developing culture and 5 population and have three settled Great People in your empire by 1100 CE.

    Notes:
    * Wari (the capital) should be razed to open space for Cuzco when the Inca spawn.
    * We probably would have to change the name of Inca UP, because it would be very similar to that of Wari. We could chose something like "The power of the Andes" with the same bonuses.


    4) Chimú/Chimor
    Spoiler :

    The Chimú (or Chimor) were a late intermediate civilization that was the last large kingdom that fought the Incas, being conquered only fifty years before the Spanish arrival. As such, the Chimú are considered a historical culture (opposed to the ones which we only have archeological remains). They were heirs and descendants of the Moche civilization that flourished in the same region in early intermediate period. Major characteristics of the Chimú were their use of shells as money, their textile and metalwork arts and large fortress (in Spanish, ciudadelas) that were the center of their urban centers. In-game, they would be the main antagonists of the Inca, making harder their expansion.

    Spawn/Location: 900 CE/Chan Chan (Cotton-title; currently we have a spawn in the wrong place as native Lima)
    Leader: Tacaynamo
    (Tacaynamo was the semi-mythical founder of Chimú Kingdom)
    Color/Symbol: Red and Black/Chimú collar.

    UP: The power of Mochica heritage (receives a free artist in capital for each cotton, gold, clam and gold resource that control).
    The Moche produced unique arts and this UP also reflects a practice of the Chimú that was later adopted by the Inca: when they conquered an enemy kindgom, they would broght all the former enemy artisans to Chan Chan to work for them. The third UHV is also a reference to this practice.

    UU: Unku warrior? (replaces a melee unit/skirmisher, doesn't require iron/cooper, bonus attacking Archers)
    True be told, I really don't know what should be the Chimú UU. Historically, after they were defeated by the Incas, they were prohibited of bearing arms but offered serious resistance to Inca occupation. We have some images of Chimú warriors carring a distinctive helmet, but probably they would field similar armies/warriors to the Inca, given that the Inca army was a multi-ethinic force that employed warriors from all conquered peoples. The term Unku, employed in Patria Grande, is probably the name of a kind of cerimonial shirt. I would name this unit in similar fashion to the Wari Archer, using any of expressions huraca (sling), chambi (club), cunca chucuna (axe), suchuc chiqui (spear) or liwi (boleadoras) + Aucac/Auqaq.

    UB: Kancha (replaces Castle, avaible with Engeneering, doesn't require Walls but only offers + 25% defense, + 25% GP generation.
    Kancha apparently is the name of the palace part of the ciudadelas and had a architectural style typical of North Peru. I gave preference to this expression (also used in Patria Grande) because they sound better than the Spanish word for their fortresses.

    UHV:
    1) The Mighty Paramonga: build two Kanchas by 1300 CE.
    2) Minchancaman Revenge: destroy or make the Inca your vassal by 1475 CE.
    3) The Lambayeque-Sipán Conection: settle three artists in your capital by 1500 CE.

    Note: just for the reference, Paramonga is a very large Chimú (later Inca) fortress in Peru, while Minchancaman was the last Chimú king.


    As final notes, I warn that I don't know if there is art available for these proposals, though we could use some of the generic Andean units and Mesoamerican LHs available in the forums here. I also didn't gave the appropriate thinking to the balance, so we could tweek some of the UHVs, UP, UU and their bonus.
    Also, argably, these additions would fit more when the new map became available. When Leoreth finishes the map development, I'll make revised suggestions based on my new civs proposals here and suggestions for improvement of the already existing South American civs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
  9. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    I'm unable to finish downloading the mod from Github. Is an alternative mirror link possible?
     
  10. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    I'm sorry but not there currently isn't. Have you tried downloading using TortoiseGit. If that doesn't work I'll look into setting one up.
     
  11. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    I did try Git but it'd never give me the files I actually need to play. Not the best at using it. :)
     
  12. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    After you clone it, you want to right click on the folder, hover over TortoiseGit, click switch/checkout, click the ... button next to Branch, press the + next to remotes, click origin, click Civilizations Reborn, click ok, click ok, and then you should have the current version of Civilizations Reborn.

    Note: You may not have to press the + next to remotes, the Civilizations Reborn branch may be already on your local branches.
     
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  13. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    That worked. Great!
    Bug report: trade routes seem to be giving significantly less commerce than what they're supposed to. This is not present in base DoC.
    Another one. Nubia converted to Judaism without controlling Jerusalem. This is not supposed to be possible, right?
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  14. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Yeah, I've been wondering about that myself. I'll put extra work into figuring out why this is happening.

    It's not. Looking into it now.
     
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  15. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Hotfix: Fixed Yemen's UP and the trade route problem it caused.

    I can't believe I didn't notice it while testing Yemen's UP back when first adding them. I was so fixated on whether the food part worked I wasn't looking at whether commerce was affected as well. I still have no clue why my code had the effect it did, but I'm glad I fixed it.

    EDIT: Wait. Now it's giving too much. WHAT'S HAPPENING???
    EDIT2: Wait. Nevermind. Free Market's bonus just doesn't get reflected in the trade route tooltip. I'll look into adding something to the tooltip to reflect this.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
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  16. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    I can't seem to reproduce the Nubia issue.
     
  17. black213

    black213 Emperor

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    They very well might've held Jerusalem briefly, don't know. Don't have a save anymore.
     
  18. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    I've seen this too and somehow I thought it is a special feature of Nubians :). But pretty often they attack Jerusalem too, if they get a chance to expand that way.
    I don't have a working save as well.
    In my current game they didn't convert to Judaism despite having this religion in cities (converted later to Orthodoxy), so I guess it is OK for now.
     
  19. Rodnok

    Rodnok Prince

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    Got a very probable bug in combat withdraws. I lost a few occasions where a barbarian camel archer attacked my strong unit on a hill with odds about 1 %. I know the probabilities and it can happen, but I looked to one combat log much later - enclosed as screen. Read from the bottom. As the Camel Archer has a chance to withdraw, I guess that instead of withdrawing the attacking unit simply killed the defending unit immediately. There is no combat result, no unit killed to 0 HP.
    The top half of the log shows the next combat where my archer from a city had to go there and kill the surviving barbarians who were at 0.67 strength. The original Shotelai unit was no longer around.

    And I do not see barbarians withdrawing in such a situation recently - and it was pretty common. Until the withdraw changes.
    Note this is Emperor level, where the barbs have 10 % extra strength.

    I found even a save, also enclosed, just end the turn and see it near Aden.
     

    Attached Files:

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  20. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    New Update

    Cleaned up the Offensive Pyrrhic Withdrawal code

    Fixed Defensive Pyrrhic Withdrawals, which checked if the attacker would die, rather than the defender.

    @Rodnok Your save should work as intended now. Thank you so much for all the amazing help you've given me.

    Truth be told, I started making this mod because I was burnt out on DoC after playing it nonstop to better learn how to mimic its style. As such, my playtesting has been rather lazy and no matter how hard I push myself to keep playtesting it hasn't been enough to snuff out all the bugs. I'm endlessly grateful for all the help everyone has given me with your feedback and bug reports.

    As a status update, I've been hard at work trying to figure out how to get the Scoreboard scrollable, and while I've made great progress, it currently is heavily bugged in terms of spacing. If someone knows how SetText and SetTextAt works it would help so much if you could pop over to the modmodding thread and take a look at the files I uploaded. I won't be able to add new Civilizations until I figure this out, lest the scoreboard text become so small no one will be able to read it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019

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