Clown Car IV: The Dotard and Dunce Parade

[Cutlass]

But even at his worst, he showed more dignity then the dumpster.

That I'll give him. He presented himself very well. He was a genuinely charismatic man.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

But even at his worst, he showed more dignity then the dumpster.

Reagan wasn't a saint ok, he wasn't even a decent human being, he ignored AIDS and HIV because he and his fellow bigots thought those diseases only plagued LGBT, so spare me this attempt to whitewash this man.

He and his administeration's inaction condemned people to both death and suffering and for what?

 

[rah]

Where did I say he was a saint? Where did I try to whitewash the man?. Geeze. All I said was that he showed some dignity for the office.
Something that Trump is TOTALLY lacking.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Tired of this "respectability" politics, where politicians etc can act like literal ghouls and implement terrible policies but as long as they have the veneer of respectability you can't call them out and Reagan was one such person, glad he's gone, if only he went before he caused as much damage as he did.

 

[rah]

Where did I say respectability? Man, you really need to tone down the hate a tad. Politics is about compromise. It's the hate and the us and them mentality that has screwed this country up. People are more worried about what's good for their party than for the country. It's sad. Both sides are responsible.

 

[Lexicus]

Politics is about compromise.

No, politics is about the acquisition and exercise of power.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Where did I say respectability? Man, you really need to tone down the hate a tad. Politics is about compromise. It's the hate and the us and them mentality that has screwed this country up. People are more worried about what's good for their party than for the country. It's sad. Both sides are responsible.

People are literally dead because Reagan thought only the queers got aids and that they deserved it, give over man, he's a monster and he's held up as one of the best Republican president as well, so don't give me anymore of this rubbish ok? He's literally enabled generations of people, children and adults, born with aids, to suffer and you think it's just a little thing?

You don't get to tell me how angry i should be, when the man himself didn't even give enough thought to his actions, as long as they screwed over people he disliked. This liberal position of "oh but bro he's being polite so you gotta be respectful" no, he wasn't polite, he advocated for the Southern Strategy, played white people's fears for political expediancy and his legacy is of one of hate and pulling up the ladder, so the lesser people couldn't climb up. Sick of it.

And hey, at least the Democratic party had the good enough sense to support LGBT rights, the Republicans STILL haven't changed and any change they have made is a token effort, they still support the same crap Reagan loved until his death.

 

[onejayhawk]

No, politics is about the acquisition and exercise of power.

For once, full agreement.

J

 

[Estebonrober]

For once, full agreement.

J

This is bad, this is real bad. . . /earth starts shaking. . .

 

[rah]

No, politics is about the acquisition and exercise of power.

Yes, and that process usually requires some compromise. Unless you have a super majority of course. Or are creating a spending bill with enough pork to go around to everyone.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I don't know if this belongs here in Clown Car or over in 2020 Election, but I just saw a "Giant Meteor 2020" bumper sticker, and it amused me.

 

[Traitorfish]

Politics is about compromise.

No, politics is about the acquisition and exercise of power.

But power is accrued, maintained and exercised as a series of compromises. The error is not so much the aphorism as the interpretation, with the idealistic understanding of "compromise" in terms of grand gestures of rationality and public duty, when in reality it's about the mundane and often pretty seedy business of balancing the competing demands of different interest-groups.

 

[Sommerswerd]

But power is accrued, maintained and exercised as a series of compromises. The error is not so much the aphorism as the interpretation, with the idealistic understanding of "compromise" in terms of grand gestures of rationality and public duty, when in reality it's about the mundane and often pretty seedy business of balancing the competing demands of different interest-groups.

"compromise", "corruption"... to-may-to, to-mah-to... I'm with @Lexicus... politics is ultimately about power, which is why “War is politics by other means” Carl von Clausewitz - On War

I don't know if this belongs here in Clown Car or over in 2020 Election, but I just saw a "Giant Meteor 2020" bumper sticker, and it amused me.

It does... I got you covered:

Spoiler :

 

[Lexicus]

But power is accrued, maintained and exercised as a series of compromises. The error is not so much the aphorism as the interpretation, with the idealistic understanding of "compromise" in terms of grand gestures of rationality and public duty, when in reality it's about the mundane and often pretty seedy business of balancing the competing demands of different interest-groups.

Well, power is not always maintained through compromise, but as a general rule (and particularly if you want a sustainable regime) you are right.

That said, compromise between those different demands is necessitated by the power those making the demands have, so I'm not backing down from what I said either.

"compromise", "corruption"... to-may-to, to-mah-to... I'm with @Lexicus... politics is ultimately about power, which is why “War is politics by other means” Carl von Clausewitz - On War

I mean seriously ask Mitch McConnell if he thinks politics is about compromise. Remember the 4 words: "oh, we'd fill it."

 

[Farm Boy]

"compromise", "corruption"

Eh, something that generally functions to generate consent, even grudging or biding time, is still enough different from naked rape and murder to not be "the same thing" "by other means." It's a lower common denominator.

Though, I suppose being unable to tell the difference would explain some pretty (seemingly not uncommon(and not always without reason)) diseased worldviews.

I think you and I got into it about your general profession once and the lack of idealism I afford it. Yet the accord itself still matters.

*Edit, if of course it being the same fundamental game is your implication. One may rest upon the other. I may have overread.

 

[Traitorfish]

It might be worth clarifying, "compromise" doesn't mean "compromise with your opponents". That's the idealism I was talking about. Mostly it means comprising between your supporters. Successful leaders are those who make themselves a necessary mediator between different interest-groups.

Electorally speaking, politics is mostly about coalition-building, at different levels. Hyper-partisanship is not bad politics because it is unpatriotic, but because it is ineffective: politicians who make it impossible to work beyond party lines are incapable of achieving anything unless they have a majority, and by the nature of that game, will struggle to hold together the sort of electoral coalition that can build majorities. The Republicans are not simply playing a self-interested game, but a very short-sighted one. Their long-term plan consists entirely of abusing their authority to reduce the electorate and manipulate the electoral process, allowing their dwindling coalition to continue returning electoral majorities.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Eh, something that generally functions to generate consent, even grudging or biding time, is still enough different from naked rape and murder to be called "the same thing" "by other means."

Sure, and there is a difference between hitting someone with a rock and stabbing them with an icepick and shooting them in the face with a shotgun... yet we call those things "the same thing" to wit, "assault". Just because there are differences between things does not mean they cannot be compared based on the ways in which they are similar... if this were not so then race would exist, instead of just "exist", right?

The real point is that the turds we have "serving" us in Congress aren't the least bit interested in any compromises in the first place, and in the second place, as I've said to you before about this same subject... there is no "compromising" with people who want to add poop to the mashed potatoes, there is only opposition.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes, one is a pretty base denominator, but the other is literally the foulest humans get and the former largely operates to prevent the latter. It's more different than the same despite the angst.

 

[Sommerswerd]

It's never too late to switch your career back to the dark side you know... come back to us... the water's fine … and you swim so well...

Their long-term plan consists entirely of abusing their authority to reduce the electorate and manipulate the electoral process, allowing their dwindling coalition to continue returning electoral majorities.

It's working

 

[Farm Boy]

It's never too late to switch your career back to the dark side you know

Spoiler :