Clown Car IV: The Dotard and Dunce Parade

[Estebonrober]

What I sugested is that the one place Trump would be gauranteed to get booed is the Washsington Swamp... and the people who would least appreciat it is the voters of the states Trump won in the 2016 election where he said draining the samp would get him elected... he got elected

Trump would get booed at any major city's sporting even because urbanites in mass loath Trump. Most politicians get booed at sporting events. It was stupid for him to go, but you are right he will use it in his campaign because he thrives on division.

 

[Lexicus]

Which is very notably not taking out ads having a sook about being a politician getting boos at a sporting event (like nearly all of them do), which the masterful advertising strategy you just very cleverly suggested

Actually, he is probably right that this is a strategy that would work well in large swathes of the US. Farm Boy's posts are indicative of the attitude:

Still sounds like you've described a minor ring of hell. Like, it was mentioned, New York(I've never been to New York. I'm taking people's word on it).

Then there's another post where he describes people living in New York (where he's never been):

while ****stains sip $7 coffees in NY

 

[Arwon]

Yeah just I don't think "sport crowd boo politician and he make sad face" is gonna have cut through and get sympathy votes lol.

You're also all probably overestimating how Washington civil servant specific that crowd would have been. The Washington metro area has about 6 million people, the district itself has 700k, so DC's voting patterns are not representative of the region at all. looking at the whole 20ish county Washington metro area*, it's proably a pretty conventional urban 60 to 70% Democrat area, not a 95% one. Oh and also many (most?) of the democrat voters in DC are black and not part of the public sector. So calling them the "swamp" based on democratic vote share is stupid as hell. There would have been plenty of conservative whitebread types in that crowd, the area is hugely military after all.

Fivethirtyeight has the Washington NFL fanbase being about average for partisan lean, for instance.

*Side note why do Americans mostly refuse to use metropolitan area data and talk about the entirety of cities rather than use political boundary data which often captures just part of the urban core

 

[Sommerswerd]

Trump would get booed at any major city's sporting even because urbanites in mass loath Trump. Most politicians get booed at sporting events. It was stupid for him to go, but you are right he will use it in his campaign because he thrives on division.

I don't know. For most cities maybe, but I don't think all. Trump only got like 4% of the vote in DC. I'm skeptical that he would get booed as resoundingly in say, Houston, Dallas, Kansas City, Charlotte, or even Tampa and Jacksonville.

I do think he was somewhat surprised by the reception he got. I don't think he was expecting to be booed like that by such a large crowd.

 

[Lexicus]

You're also all probably overestimating how Washington civil servant specific that crowd would have been.

Dude, I live in Washington - been four years now since I moved here. I know Washington. I know perfectly well that most of the people at that crowd are just ordinary working stiffs who have absolutely nothing to do with "the swamp."

The thing is, Trump's voters out in the "heartland"....don't know that. If Trump tells them "the swamp booing me" they will believe him.

I doubt this is going to convince anyone who isn't already for Trump, to be clear, but it certainly might help to motivate turnout among those people. Or at least, it would if it were a bit closer to the election. It's still more than a year away, I doubt anyone will even remember this by this time next year.

 

[Arwon]

And... what, diehard Trumpists stupid enough to think that "aww the Washington swamp booed him and made him sad" are gonna vote harder for him out of sympathy?

Also yeah sidenote speaking as a proud resident of Australia's greatest city and another purpose built capital: attacking the ordinary workers of a capital city who do the basic civil government stuff for being part of "the government" and "the political class" is also really dumb and unfair.

DC residents don't even have proper voter rights, the rest of you people sent the politicians there.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I hope Trump business all implode like a house of cards once he is no longer president.
This is peanuts compared with Kushner 1.28Bil

$16.8 Million In Campaign Funds Went To Trump Businesses, Latest Records Reveal
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5db7837be4b0bd61024fe1f1?ncid=APPLENEWS00001&guccounter=1

 

[Lexicus]

And... what, diehard Trumpists stupid enough to think that "aww the Washington swamp booed him and made him sad" are gonna vote harder for him out of sympathy?

You may have responded before I edited the last bit into my post.

I doubt this is going to convince anyone who isn't already for Trump, to be clear, but it certainly might help to motivate turnout among those people. Or at least, it would if it were a bit closer to the election. It's still more than a year away, I doubt anyone will even remember this by this time next year.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Dude, I live in Washington - been four years now since I moved here. I know Washington. I know perfectly well that most of the people at that crowd are just ordinary working stiffs who have absolutely nothing to do with "the swamp."

The thing is, Trump's voters out in the "heartland"....don't know that. If Trump tells them "the swamp booing me" they will believe him.

I doubt this is going to convince anyone who isn't already for Trump, to be clear, but it certainly might help to motivate turnout among those people. Or at least, it would if it were a bit closer to the election. It's still more than a year away, I doubt anyone will even remember this by this time next year.

​

I doubt that Trump would sanction a commercial that shows him getting booed by a stadium. His ego wouldn't abide that.

 

[Old Hippy]

I doubt anyone will even remember this by this time next year.

don't discount those pesky RUSSIANS and their dark web ad campaigns... even Tulsi might remind people come the election...

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Roads to "nowhere" that happened to quadruple the value of some boondock real estate holdings owned by the local 'kingmaker';

TIL my experience in SimCity would make me a perfect Democratic leader from the 60's

*Side note why do Americans mostly refuse to use metropolitan area data and talk about the entirety of cities rather than use political boundary data which often captures just part of the urban core

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that if you look at the metro area, DC is mostly average in political affiliation then saying that we should not use metro area data?

I think most people in the states do talk about cities in terms of their metro areas except in instances where there are clear distinctions between the city core and the rest of the metro. St. Louis is a good example of this - it basically seceded from it's own metro area way back in the day as a cost-cutting measure and then later when white flight happened in the 60's, there became a pretty extreme distinction between the city core and its metro in terms of population and attitudes. The counties surrounding St Louis are extremely right wing while the city itself is left wing, making it difficult to talk about the two nearly-separate entities as a whole. This is an extreme example but there are other cities with a big distinction between the urban core and the suburbs I think.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, at this point those people are so full of hate they're gonna find stuff to hate even if every individual in non Trumpville individually resolves to be on their best and nicest behaviour. Let the sporting crowds have their cathartic theatre I reckon.

TIL my experience in SimCity would make me a perfect Democratic leader from the 60's

Wait, I'm confused. Are you saying that if you look at the metro area, DC is mostly average in political affiliation then saying that we should not use metro area data?

I think most people in the states do talk about cities in terms of their metro areas except in instances where there are clear distinctions between the city core and the rest of the metro. St. Louis is a good example of this - it basically seceded from it's own metro area way back in the day as a cost-cutting measure and then later when white flight happened in the 60's, there became a pretty extreme distinction between the city core and its metro in terms of population and attitudes. The counties surrounding St Louis are extremely right wing while the city itself is left wing, making it difficult to talk about the two nearly-separate entities as a whole. This is an extreme example but there are other cities with a big distinction between the urban core and the suburbs I think.

No I'm saying y'all don't use metro data (and statistical area data) nearly enough. There's a massive reliance on county and city boundary level stuff and it's really frustrating. This is me on my "statistics related worker" high horse.

Just at a really basic level it's oddly hard to work out, say, how many people live in a given city because the default answer is based on political boundaries that make up a subsector of the place. For example, if I google "population of San Diego" I get 1.4m instead of about 3.5m (we'll ignore TJ realistically being part of the same metro area).

That's like searching for the population of Sydney and getting 200k instead of nearly 5 million. The government area is not the actual city. New York has 21 million people by any sensible understanding of what a city is, not 8 million.

 

[Lexicus]

I doubt that Trump would sanction a commercial that shows him getting booed by a stadium. His ego wouldn't abide that.

Oh I'm not envisioning a commercial, but a passing reference or two during one of his, er, stream-of-consciousness moments at a rally wouldn't surprise me a bit.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Oh I'm not envisioning a commercial, but a passing reference or two during one of his, er, stream-of-consciousness moments at a rally wouldn't surprise me a bit.

I would be even less surprised if his stream of consciousness reference were to the wild cheers that he got and how it proved what a great job he is doing.

 

[Berzerker]

So you're trying to force custom as a source of positive law down our throats.

You want me to cite a "positive law" that says HUD is unconstitutional? I just said the feds created the law and the courts let them get away with the power grab. Somehow the people running the country for almost 200 years forgot all about the constitutional power for HUD.

Please let us not give too much influence to the poster who says he would have helped runaway slaves in the 1850s while also holding out for Barry Goldwater.

Holding out? I was a youngen when he ran. Now why are you suggesting Goldwater was pro fugitive slave act (or whatever it is you're saying)? I'd think he would see that as a violation of state power under the 10th Amendment.

Umm, what planet are you living on again?

The states cant discriminate according to the Constitution, equal protection under the law.

Next you will say that the EPA, FFA, USAIRFORCE, NASA, FEC, SEC, etc etc are also unconstitutional /s
Oh wait maybe not the Airforce since the British were seizing airports during the American revolutionary war

Come on Berzerker, it dosnt take long to google this stuff and check that US Fed government has housing programs back nearly 100 years and they just consolidated them into Hud under LBJ around 50 years ago

I said HUD was unconstitutional, it was created in 1965. I know FDR was a fan of ignoring constitutional limits on his power, that still leaves ~150 years for the federal government to discover the power. I'll defend what I said, not what I'll allegedly say next.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Yeah just I don't think "sport crowd boo politician and he make sad face" is gonna have cut through and get sympathy votes lol.

You're also all probably overestimating how Washington civil servant specific that crowd would have been. The Washington metro area has about 6 million people, the district itself has 700k, so DC's voting patterns are not representative of the region at all. looking at the whole 20ish county Washington metro area*, it's proably a pretty conventional urban 60 to 70% Democrat area, not a 95% one. Oh and also many (most?) of the democrat voters in DC are black and not part of the public sector. So calling them the "swamp" based on democratic vote share is stupid as hell. There would have been plenty of conservative whitebread types in that crowd, the area is hugely military after all.

Fivethirtyeight has the Washington NFL fanbase being about average for partisan lean, for instance.

*Side note why do Americans mostly refuse to use metropolitan area data and talk about the entirety of cities rather than use political boundary data which often captures just part of the urban core

I call bull on the entire survey. There's no way in a base of 2290 random NFL fans that you could get a statistically significant sample size of Chargers fans. I'd guess you would need several tens of thousands of random NFL fans just to come up with four or five Chargers fans.

 

[Takhisis]

You want me to cite a "positive law" that says HUD is unconstitutional? I just said the feds created the law and the courts let them get away with the power grab. Somehow the people running the country for almost 200 years forgot all about the constitutional power for HUD.

You might just, say, quote the actual Constitution if you want to say that something's unconstitutional, and if it's not explicitly but impliedly so you can back it up with sound reasoning and, better still, statutory legislation, court rulings or even obiter dicta.

Holding out? I was a youngen when he ran. Now why are you suggesting Goldwater was pro fugitive slave act (or whatever it is you're saying)? I'd think he would see that as a violation of state power under the 10th Amendment.

I am not suggesting that Barry Goldwater was pro fugitive slave act. I am saying that it is completely hypocritical of you to claim to be on the side of the oppressed and then hold up Goldwater's ideals which were, thinly if at all veiled: ‘not allowing us to oppress our Negroes is a curtailment on our freedom’, given that his position was -literally- against the civil rights movement and civil rights legislation.

You are a walking example of Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I said HUD was unconstitutional, it was created in 1965. I know FDR was a fan of ignoring constitutional limits on his power, that still leaves ~150 years for the federal government to discover the power. I'll defend what I said, not what I'll allegedly say next.

I cannot imagine why the Ameican people demanded help from the Federal government, especially since Fords do nothing Libertarian utopia small government was working out so well for everyone
Why dont you also bash the Airforce as unconsitutional then.

 

[FriendlyFire]

That ship already sailed and you were the helms man
The mental gynmestics Republicans

Suddenly Ken Starr doesn’t like impeachment so much

Comes now Ken Starr, responsible more than any other person on Earth for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, to tell us what a dreadful thing impeachment is.
“It just seems we need to ratchet the conversation down because of the evils of impeachment,” the former independent counsel said during an interview with conservative writer Byron York released on Monday. “Impeachment has become a terrible, terrible thorn in the side of the American democracy and the conduct of American government since Watergate. . . . Let’s at least have a reasoned and deliberate conversation about some lesser kind of response.”

Starr thinks Congress should consider censuring President Trump, and he says Republicans in 1998 should have considered “whether something short of impeachment would be appropriate.”
Now he tells us? He didn’t mention “censure” once in his referral to Congress in 1998 laying out “substantial and credible information that President Clinton committed acts that may constitute grounds for an impeachment,” nor in his November 1998 testimony. Then, Starr argued passionately that Clinton’s actions fit the “high-crime-and-misdemeanor” standard.

Starr wasn’t finished. During this week’s interview, he also absolved Trump of guilt, both for obstruction of justice in the Mueller inquiry and for wrongdoing in the Ukraine quid pro quo, saying Trump’s “intent” was pure. Starr protested that Trump “is being held to a remarkable standard” in which we are “over-criminalizing the conduct of the business of government.”

But in terms of audacity, it’s tough to top Starr. During this week’s interview, he argued that while the impeachment of Clinton for lying about an affair was a “matter of conscience” for Congress, the prospective impeachment of Trump for betraying national security and breaking campaign-finance law is not.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...r-doesnt-like-impeachment-so-much/?tid=pm_pop

 

[Ferocitus]

House Democrats Just Released the Text of Their Impeachment Resolution
https://www.motherjones.com/impeach...sed-the-text-of-their-impeachment-resolution/

It's good to have an actual document on the agenda to keep all of us focused.

EDIT: Hmmm. It's just boring procedures that say that members can only make submissions if they're holding the "Speaking Banana" and stuff like that.