Clown Car V: 2020 version!

[cardgame]

Is it bad to be against drugs? Granted the "War on Drugs" did not achieve the goals it set out to, but the ideals they attempted weren't rooted in evil, they were rooted in protecting people. Succeed or fail you can't fault people with good intentions for not living up to what the original intent was, at least they tried to better society.

Yes, because the war on drugs was rooted in evil. After Prohibition was ended, the new, expanded police needed a new enemy to fight, so they manufactured one, to justify their continued existence, and sold it to the public wrapped in racism. You know absolutely nothing about the origin of the drug war if you think it was a force for good.

“Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men. The primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races.”

This continued through to Nixon.

We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.

The second part of your statement here doesn't make sense. US citizens have representation in DC, the federal government determines federal taxes, each state has Senators and Congressmen representing their citizens, these representatives voted in favor of taxes. That's called representation.

But that's literally not true, DC does not have federal representation.

As the federal capital, the District of Columbia is a special federal district, not a state, and therefore does not have voting representation in Congress. The Constitution grants Congress exclusive jurisdiction over the District in "all cases whatsoever". ... D.C. residents have no representation in the Senate.

Many forget that for society to survive and for democratic ideals to continue some pretty terrible deeds must be done by men and woman who are sworn to protect this country. In order to progress the American and indeed western ideology during the cold war we had to do some terrible things. Were they wrong, yes of course... were they necessary, beyond a doubt yes.

Survivorship bias, assuming causality and also gross.

 

[Arwon]

The second part of your statement here doesn't make sense. US citizens have representation in DC, the federal government determines federal taxes, each state has Senators and Congressmen representing their citizens, these representatives voted in favor of taxes. That's called representation.

I can damn well tell you that if being a resident of our federal district meant I did not get federal Senators and House of Representatives members, I would not be being represented.

 

[GenMarshall]

Last I checked, DC only has a representative that has no voting power. I've heard a DC's representative has a YMMV situation in that it's either a cushy job where you don't have to do anything or bored to tears not being able to vote (summarized from CGP Grey).

(Fast forward to Timestap 0:38 for D.C.. Don't know why timestamp can't be embedded)

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, tying representation in the two houses of the legislature to states only, means residents of all the territories are disenfranchised.

 

[Zardnaar]

American system sucks but can't really change it atm.

 

[Birdjaguar]

But that's literally not true, DC does not have federal representation.

Yeah, tying representation in the two houses of the legislature to states only, means residents of all the territories are disenfranchised.

Finding small exceptions to the rule does not mean that the rule is not true.

"i before e except after c or when sounding like a as in neighbor and weigh."

 

[Arwon]

Huh? Did you quote the wrong post?

 

[W|M]

Well every pretty much did it across multiple cultures.

Hunan zois were a thing into the 1930s.

western societies, in addition to socities where the elite (often imposed by the west itself) emulates western norms, were and are racist. That doesn't mean everyone is or was

First, yes America is the greatest nation to have ever graced this planet. It may have it faults as all nations do but no nation has ever been created solely on the basis of Freedom. We have had our negatives but we are always striving to better our nation, it may be painful at times, it may be difficult but we always inch slowly closer to the idealism of the shining city on hill. No other nation on this planet can say that is how they were founded nor that they have always been inching closer to that Utopian ideal. When we look at other western democracies one of two things is true, either their nation was born of Empire, ex. the UK, or America propped it up to bring it back from the horrors of fascism, ex. Germany. We are the nation others strive to be, some may have surpassed us in progressive programs in the past half century, but each of those nations looked to the US for leadership to get them to where they are today. One can bash us left and right but we are the reason you are the way you are now, American blood paved the way for the democracies around the world today.

if you love freedom so much why do you have prisons

Did not say we were owed anything but bashing the country that literally set the standard for the rest of the world's democracies makes little sense.

Setting the standard for freedom and democracy

I acknowledged that some 1st world democracies may have passed us in the means of progressive ideals however we were the standard bearer for 200 years.

Standard bearer of freedom for 200 years

Is it bad to be against drugs?

if you're anti-drugs you're anti-freedom

The second part of your statement here doesn't make sense. US citizens have representation in DC, the federal government determines federal taxes, each state has Senators and Congressmen representing their citizens, these representatives voted in favor of taxes. That's called representation.

DC doesn't have representation in Congress, and neither do Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands or American Samoa

3. Did the world end in total nuclear war?

the US invented nuclear weapons, they're the reason nuclear war was even a risk in the first place

Many forget that for society to survive and for democratic ideals to continue some pretty terrible deeds must be done by men and woman who are sworn to protect this country. In order to progress the American and indeed western ideology during the cold war we had to do some terrible things. Were they wrong, yes of course... were they necessary, beyond a doubt yes.

was this necessary?

American system sucks but can't really change it atm.

why not?

 

[Zardnaar]

western societies, in addition to socities where the elite (often imposed by the west itself) emulates western norms, were and are racist. That doesn't mean everyone is or was



if you love freedom so much why do you have prisons



Setting the standard for freedom and democracy



Standard bearer of freedom for 200 years



if you're anti-drugs you're anti-freedom



DC doesn't have representation in Congress, and neither do Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands or American Samoa



the US invented nuclear weapons, they're the reason nuclear war was even a risk in the first place



was this necessary?




why not?

From memory you would need the GoP on board.
Changing anything in America is crazy hard. 75% of states for constitutional change.

Dumping EC not sure how one would do that.

 

[W|M]

change doesn't necessarily come through electoral methods

 

[Zardnaar]

change doesn't necessarily come through electoral methods

Good luck with that.

 

[Samson]

It seems a big "taxation without representation" thing is non-citizens legally working in the US, HB1 visas for example.

 

[Zardnaar]

Trying to use the high court to overturn a non binding referendum.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/prog...nderway-to-dismiss-cannabis-referendum-result

Stoners been a bit salty since Election.

 

[Ironsided]

I( wouldn't argue with that, but leaders of the Democrats in the US like Kennedy or Labour in the UK like Wilson weren't the ones pushing the envelope. Nor were union leaders.

Seems like you want to tell me the liberals did? You would know better than me about UK. In Sweden, the liberals had held petitions and collected names tens of years before the labour movement threatened a general strike and forced women’s suffrage for example. Liberals talked a good game but got little done. The phony liberals (in name only) we have today does not even do that. Quite the opposite, mostly they prop up conservative alliances and effectively work against social progress.

 

[Kyriakos]

change doesn't necessarily come through electoral methods

 

[Ironsided]

Yes. By not acting in a depression - and the American situation looks ever more like a depression - they (GOP and Dems) feed the very forces they use to scare the public with. A sort of self-fulfilling prophesy they can later hold their hands up, virtue signal, and say –See these unruly mobs of lefties starting a revolution!

 

[AmazonQueen]

Seems like you want to tell me the liberals did? You would know better than me about UK. In Sweden, the liberals had held petitions and collected names tens of years before the labour movement threatened a general strike and forced women’s suffrage for example. Liberals talked a good game but got little done. The phony liberals (in name only) we have today does not even do that. Quite the opposite, mostly they prop up conservative alliances and effectively work against social progress.

Not the liberals, although Roy Jenkins who was a "liberal" Labour Home Secretary did some good things (decriminalising homosexual acts, legalising abortion). The activists -feminists, gay rights campaigners, ethnic minority community activists, ordinary trade unionists, pushed the envelope and some time later the Labour and Liberal Parties and the trade unions followed.

 

[Lexicus]

either their nation was born of Empire

And you honestly believe the United States did not engage in imperial expansion? What exactly do you think happened to the Indians? Are you familiar with the Mexican War?

Did not say we were owed anything but bashing the country that literally set the standard for the rest of the world's democracies makes little sense.

The US has not set any standard for the world's democracies...ever. The US doesn't even export its own model of Constitutional government to countries it invades and occupies. Part of that is because in the 19th and 20th centuries other countries were undergoing their own gradual transitions from monarchy or empire to democratic forms of government...but a lot of it is because the US system of government is a premodern mess, patently unfit to solve the problems of the 21st century.

Many forget that for society to survive and for democratic ideals to continue some pretty terrible deeds must be done by men and woman who are sworn to protect this country. In order to progress the American and indeed western ideology during the cold war we had to do some terrible things. Were they wrong, yes of course... were they necessary, beyond a doubt yes.

So then it turns out you don't believe in freedom, you believe in fascism. Because Orwellian nonsense about murdering peasants in other countries to protect Freedom is just that: fascism.

Incidentally, the Western ideology we were protecting in the Cold War? Here it is in all its glory:

 

[Kyriakos]

Communism sort of came later than the abolishment of serfdom in Russia ^_^

 

[Arwon]

Did not say we were owed anything but bashing the country that literally set the standard for the rest of the world's democracies makes little sense.

Nobody is bagging France here dude