Leha
ooseepoosee
I agree we need another curragh, it is very important to establish early contacts while AIs didn't meet one another.
Exactly my thought.
And I NEVER use governor.
Exactly my thought.
And I NEVER use governor.
COM2 - n00bile deities
- Thread starter commodified
- Start date
lurker's comment: I did shadow and the move east was the better one, I went SE and things are way too tight.
Agree with pindicator that settlement priority is to the northeast. So waste the settler move and head north instead. You already control access to the south.
Having Salamanca do a settler farm at pop 4&5 is slightly better than 5&6 because of entertainment issues.
Unlike some I don't do minimum science at Deity on the opener. Better to burn the gold at maximum. It is never enough to do any trading with anyway and can't be used for rush building , and if you only have a couple of gold in the kitty then the AI is unlikely to come calling and demand it.
Does everybody know how to handle demands? If you click on the advisor's face you can get to the Domestic screen and adjust your spending to avoid a sudden deficit and the loss of a worker, or worse yet, a granary.
Agree with Whomp that escorts are unnecessary and that a boat will be more useful.
Bede should I have gone a different path on research? Looking at all the AI's with alpha I thought about something else. What would have been better than min on writing?
I do know the advisor face thing on demands.
Something else for future reference I learned from DocT.
When transporting units, stack a reg ship with a vet ship. Put the valuable units (say an army) in the reg ship. That way if the ships are attacked the vet ship defends not the reg.
I do know the advisor face thing on demands.
Something else for future reference I learned from DocT.
When transporting units, stack a reg ship with a vet ship. Put the valuable units (say an army) in the reg ship. That way if the ships are attacked the vet ship defends not the reg.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
Clarification:
One should always* have the 'Emphasize Production' setting. Of course, not a single city should be controlled by the Governor EVER (except for quelling resistance).
Cycling throw all cities does not work: We're talking about where the governor should put a new citizen: Food, Commerce, Production. And that happens interturn, not when you are able to reassign.
Now, Food and Commerce are entirely pointless - both have already happened when the new citizen appears. And that's why production is the correct setting in 100% of all cases.
Thus, the new citizen picks up some shields. And can be assigned to a high food/commerce tile at end of turn.
*The only reason why not is when your in the milking phase, and don't feel like scrolling through all cities every turn.
Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
I defaults to whatever the governor considers the best generic tile. Usually a 2fpt/1spt/1gpt grassland.
Without the production setting, it will NOT pick a forrest or hill.
And even with it, the system isn't foolproof: The Governor still wants the city to grow, so he will not place the new citizen such that the city is at 0fpt surplus (unless size 6/12). But not even that is sure - in RAR, 1fpt surplus isn't enough for him; he insists on +2fpt.
Without the production setting, it will NOT pick a forrest or hill.
And even with it, the system isn't foolproof: The Governor still wants the city to grow, so he will not place the new citizen such that the city is at 0fpt surplus (unless size 6/12). But not even that is sure - in RAR, 1fpt surplus isn't enough for him; he insists on +2fpt.
Whomp said:
lurker's comment:
Max on writing and road the terrain before anything else and keep the citizens working the riverbanks.
Putting Niagara Falls where you did was also an excellent choice.
Writing is always a good first choice for your second column tech.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Doc Tsiolkovski said:
Aw, I see now. I was sure AI picks highest shield tile, too.
BTW, do we want TGL and SoZ?
I say no to TGL. We will have plenty of contacts to broker trades. Once our curraghs locate the other civs prices will come down and trades will become available. Hopefully we will meet a few before writing comes in.
On SoZ I would say yes but not in any of our initial core cities.
On SoZ I would say yes but not in any of our initial core cities.
pindicator
Emperor
Nikodemus said:Isn't just irrigating that plains enough for 4 turn settlers at sizes 4&5? As far as I can see we'd get 6+8+7+9=30 shields with the governor set to emphasize production. Or I could be talking nonsense.
No nonsense, you're quite right! That's what I get for doing computations at 2am
Edit: And I'm glad other people are paying attention, because I sure am not! I forgot there aren't barbs on this. So yeah, Curraghs over Warriors for certain.
Leha
ooseepoosee
Ok, enough talking, time for civving
Preturn
Set "emphasize production" for all cities.
2510 BC (1)
Redirect settler to move north.
Meet mongols in the south. I hope there is strip of water
between them and us, otherwise maybe it was better to move settler south.
Trade Alpha for WC,BW and 10 gold to mongols.
Lizzy's up Wheel and CB
Temujin is smiling his toothless smile, that's because he's got IW.
IT
English warrior comes from north
2470 BC (2)
Niagara Falls worker-->curragh
2430 BC (3)
2390 BC (4)
Salamanka settler-->warrior
Grand river is built-->warrior
English built Hastings near spices
But that's OK.
They already have two cities in the jungle - happy jungle-clearing.
Lux-->20%
2350 BC (5)
I don't like english warrior wandering in our territory.
Don't like it at all.
2310 BC (6)
Connect Ivory
Salamanca warrior-->settler
Allegheny is built - start Colossus as prebuid for SoZ
IT
Looks like english warrior is heading out.
2270 BC (7)
2230 BC (8)
2150 BC (9)
Niagara falls curragh-->warrior (for MP)
Grand river warrior-->worker
Salamanca settler-->settler
English warrior fortifies in our territory.
I'm afraid to sneeze in his direction, not to mention to ask him
nicely to leave.
2110 BC (10)
Niagara Falls grows to size 3-->lux 40%
2070 BC (11)
Hittites finish Colossus
Switch Allegheny to Granary
Build Cattaraugus-->warrior
2030 BC (12)
Niagara falls warrior-->worker
Lux-->20%
1990 BC (13)
Salamanca settler-->rax
Grand river worker-->curragh
Looks like our south is safe for settlement.
Mongols can do nothing till MM.
1950 BC (14)
1910 BC (15)
Niagara Falls connected to Ivory, lux-->0%
Niagara falls worker-->worker
1870 BC (16)
Salamanca grows to 4 lux-->10%
1830 BC (17)
Oil Springs is built --> warrior
Mongols have writing
1790 BC (18)
Niagara Falls worker-->worker
Have to risk curragh to cross sea tiles cause I see pink border
1750 BC (19)
Salamanca rax-->settler
Curragh sinks
1725 BC (20)
Finish writing, start lit
Lux-->20%
I didn't trade Writing to english so if next player decides to do so, he can do it in starting turn.
SAVE
Preturn
Set "emphasize production" for all cities.
2510 BC (1)
Redirect settler to move north.
Meet mongols in the south. I hope there is strip of water
between them and us, otherwise maybe it was better to move settler south.
Trade Alpha for WC,BW and 10 gold to mongols.
Lizzy's up Wheel and CB
Temujin is smiling his toothless smile, that's because he's got IW.
IT
English warrior comes from north
2470 BC (2)
Niagara Falls worker-->curragh
2430 BC (3)
2390 BC (4)
Salamanka settler-->warrior
Grand river is built-->warrior
English built Hastings near spices
But that's OK.They already have two cities in the jungle - happy jungle-clearing.
Lux-->20%
2350 BC (5)
I don't like english warrior wandering in our territory.
Don't like it at all.
2310 BC (6)
Connect Ivory
Salamanca warrior-->settler
Allegheny is built - start Colossus as prebuid for SoZ
IT
Looks like english warrior is heading out.
2270 BC (7)
2230 BC (8)
2150 BC (9)
Niagara falls curragh-->warrior (for MP)
Grand river warrior-->worker
Salamanca settler-->settler
English warrior fortifies in our territory.
I'm afraid to sneeze in his direction, not to mention to ask him
nicely to leave.
2110 BC (10)
Niagara Falls grows to size 3-->lux 40%
2070 BC (11)
Hittites finish Colossus
Switch Allegheny to Granary
Build Cattaraugus-->warrior
2030 BC (12)
Niagara falls warrior-->worker
Lux-->20%
1990 BC (13)
Salamanca settler-->rax
Grand river worker-->curragh
Looks like our south is safe for settlement.
Mongols can do nothing till MM.
1950 BC (14)
1910 BC (15)
Niagara Falls connected to Ivory, lux-->0%
Niagara falls worker-->worker
1870 BC (16)
Salamanca grows to 4 lux-->10%
1830 BC (17)
Oil Springs is built --> warrior
Mongols have writing
1790 BC (18)
Niagara Falls worker-->worker
Have to risk curragh to cross sea tiles cause I see pink border
1750 BC (19)
Salamanca rax-->settler
Curragh sinks
1725 BC (20)
Finish writing, start lit
Lux-->20%
I didn't trade Writing to english so if next player decides to do so, he can do it in starting turn.
SAVE
pindicator
Emperor
Nice turns Leha. Tough break on the spices, but in good news it may mean that England doesn't have any good land at all.There are also some green borders to the east. Perhaps the Curragh coming out of Grand River could head north along the coastline, scouting out England, and then continue east to check out the green-bordered AI.
Are we going to try to get TGLib? I don't even know if that's feasable in Diety...
I'd lament Salamanca getting upset from its 4-turn settler brigade, but we only seem to have 2 spots readily left to settle. I think I like shifting both your dots one tile SE on the dotmap. Picks up the wheat quicker and is less of an overlap with Mongolian towns. Actually, what do our Diety experts say about settling in range of Mongolian culture to the south? Is it risky? I remember lurking a couple diety games where culture overlaps were considered very bad just because of how fast the AI can produce.
I'd switch Cattaraugus to Worker as it really can't grow well anyway.
Possible trades:
Buy Iron Working for 286g (either Mongols or English).
Buy The Wheel for 213g (either Mongols or English).
Writing + 153g to England for Masonry
Writing to England for CB + 24g
Writing + 221g to England for Iron Working + The Wheel
..and many other variants with Writing. I'd suggest trading for Masonry and CB and then trading those to the Mongols for Iron Working and Wheel, but the AIs jacking up the price nixes that idea...
Also, if we up science to 70%, we can get Literature in 24 turns. Then again, since we haven't even started we can switch to any tech we choose.
Nikodemus
Demigod
I guess I'm up next, I'll look into it later today. All comments will be very much appreciated.
lurker's comment: You should be okay against Mongol culture with full garrisons.
The Wheel is really the only tech you need to know right now. Pay cash if you can to protect the run to Philo. Your big competitor there is going to be the one who built the Colussus.
How about the high speed run to Philosophy? There is enough in the Treasury to finance it. Just make sure you have full MP complements to keep the entertainment tax minimal.
Leha
ooseepoosee
pindicator said:
As I understand it, deity players usually don't go for TGL, but with our tough start with contacts I wish we had it.
Yes, I think you are right, looks like we won't get second fish anyway.
@Team, granary in Allegheny looks dumb, I know, but I played after night shift and SoZ seemed very important to me for some reason, so when Colossus prebuild was lost, I switched to granary, hoping to switch later to palace with masonry.
Now, after good sleep, I see that maybe SoZ is not that important, English won't be much of the threat. So if team decides to quit prebuild, it's not too late to switch Allegheny to rax.
Nikodemus
Demigod
I'd like to hear some comments on what we should try to pursue once we run out of room to expand to, which should happen in about 10 turns. Trade for IW and/or Wheel to find out which resources we have, if any, and start preparing for the inevitable war against England? (They're building the pyramids for us in London btw ) Or spend some time improving our cities first?
I'm personally not a huge fan of TGL, so I'd vote for going for Philo instead of Literacy. But then I don't have much experience on Deity so I don't really know how deep in a tech hole we can expect to be. In any case our second most productive cities only have 3 shields so it would take probably 100 turns to finish TGL in anywhere but Salamanca. Could of course just keep the prebuild going in Allegheny and decide later what it's for. That SoZ could be kinda useful for example if we don't have any resources.
) Or spend some time improving our cities first? I'm personally not a huge fan of TGL, so I'd vote for going for Philo instead of Literacy. But then I don't have much experience on Deity so I don't really know how deep in a tech hole we can expect to be. In any case our second most productive cities only have 3 shields so it would take probably 100 turns to finish TGL in anywhere but Salamanca. Could of course just keep the prebuild going in Allegheny and decide later what it's for. That SoZ could be kinda useful for example if we don't have any resources.
pindicator
Emperor
Yeah, let's try for that Philosophy. Best case scenerio, we get it first and can trade someone CoL before picking the free tech. But since it's Diety I'll just be very surprised to get it first.
I think we should buy The Wheel. Our territory doesn't have many mountains in it and I like Horsemen better than Swordsmen any day of the week.
After we finish settling... that is a big question mark for me. My impulse is to build up forces to
the English, but I don't know if that's even smart.
I think we should buy The Wheel. Our territory doesn't have many mountains in it and I like Horsemen better than Swordsmen any day of the week.
After we finish settling... that is a big question mark for me. My impulse is to build up forces to
the English, but I don't know if that's even smart.MjM
Deity
pindicator said:
Well I dont think they are in this case , there is tons of jungle between us and the English and their 2 move would be wasted. Also they would be easy pickings for English archers. On the other hand , if we have iron , I think we should build swordsmen and possibly a road through the jungle to the English.
Nikodemus
Demigod
The save is at the bottom.
Preturn
Salamanca is at 4 fpt which can't be good. On a second thought maybe we want to downsize it
back to 4&5 to avoid unhappiness so leave it as it is.
Buy The Wheel from mongols for 213 gp and we have horses in our south, nice. I figured I'd
go with The Wheel first since horses seemed more likely than iron. We can't really afford both
and shouldn't need both for a war either.
Switch Cattaraugus from warrior to worker.
And last but not the least, switch research to Philo. Even if we decide we want TGL, we will have
time to research Literacy as Philo at max only takes 12 turns (-2 gpt).
IBT: The English move away from our hill near Allegheny.
Turn 1, 1700 BC:
Niagara Falls: worker->barracks
Grand Rapids: curragh->barracks
Cattaraugus: worker->worker
I think about things a little more and decide Allegheny isn't going to have more than maybe 4 shields
any time soon so I switch the prebuild-granary to barracks. Around 100 turns to finish TGL or 50 to finish
SoZ doesn't seem feasible. Spike heads back north to explore the core of the English empire.
Turn 2, 1675BC:
Allegheny: barracks->spear
Begin building a road to the horses. Spike finds even more bananas.
IBT: Mongols establish an embassy at our capital.
Turn 3, 1650BC:
Salamanca: settler->settler
Settler heads south. Scared of the Mongol culture, I decide to move the dots as suggested by pindicator.
Mongols have also learned HBR, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to part with it for anything
we could offer.
Turn 4, 1625BC:
The English really don't seem to have done much if anything about that jungle.
Turn 5, 1600BC:
The English start SoZ in Nottingham which is a jungle village with maybe 1 shield.
Spike heads back home.
Turn 6, 1575BC:
It was extremely quiet throughout the empire around 1575BC.
Turn 7, 1550BC:
Salamanca: settler->spear
Oil Springs: warrior->barracks
Don't really know what to build here. Still no horses hooked up so can't even build chariots for
upgrades. I figure spears can at least defend the mounties in the jungle. Our curragh in north
discovers blue borders, but they're at a suicide distance. I reckon
it's better to have a 50% shot at a new contact now and give it a try...
Turn 8, 1525BC:
... and the curragh survives! We meet the Hittites. Currently our contacts include
- England, who are up CB, IW and Mas, down Writing,
- Mongols, who are up IW and HBR,
- Hittites, who are up CB, IW, HBR and Mas.
Philosophy is currently due in 4.
We found Tonawanda and finally have the horses inside our borders. Still lacking the road though.
Turn 9, 1500BC:
Allegheny: spear->spear
The northern curragh which just found the Hittites faces a difficult choice: whether to start going
around the Hittites in hope of finding another civilization, or turn back towards the lime borders
and face the wrath of the sea for the second time. The captain decides to push forward and to the west.
IBT: The Aztecs build The Pyramids. The English build the SoZ. The Incas build the Oracle.
Turn 10, 1475BC:
Salamanca: spear->spear
Another quiet year.
Turn 11, 1450BC:
Cattaraugus: worker->curragh
It looks like we need one more curragh to go meet the lime people.
IBT: Our prophets learn the secret of Philosophy and as it turns out we were the first
great thinkers of the world. That nets us Code of Laws as well. The English found Coventry
quite close to our borders.
Turn 12, 1425BC:
Salamanca: spear->MoM
I think I will stop here even though it's not quite the whole 15 turns. Several reasons:
- We're up Philo and CoL on everyone we know so there's plenty of trading opportunities.
- We are also only a couple of turns away from learning to know the pink people far in the west, which should give even more opportunities for trade.
- Deciding on the next research project is kind of a big deal too, personally I'd choose Republic at minimum (only 47 turns on max) but there are other options.
- And the most important reason: I couldn't really patch up any kind of a plan.. we had no room to expand, no really useful military units to build and not much for buildings either. Better to let someone else formulate the next plan.
Even so, we should be in a pretty good shape. After trading we ought to be at least competitive in tech, if not even tied for the lead. The horses will be hooked up the next turn and we have some barracks as well, so we can finally start building those mounties. Or see if we have any iron (with only 4 hills/mountains it'd be a little lucky) and build swords.
I can't offer much advice for the next player, except don't be afraid to switch production anywhere, especially that MoM.
Finally a couple of pictures.. first, here's the Dark England. At least they've managed to build a road between York and London.
And here's our mighty empire as of 1425BC.
*****
And finally the save: com2_1425bc.sav
*****
Preturn
Salamanca is at 4 fpt which can't be good. On a second thought maybe we want to downsize it
back to 4&5 to avoid unhappiness so leave it as it is.
Buy The Wheel from mongols for 213 gp and we have horses in our south, nice. I figured I'd
go with The Wheel first since horses seemed more likely than iron. We can't really afford both
and shouldn't need both for a war either.
Switch Cattaraugus from warrior to worker.
And last but not the least, switch research to Philo. Even if we decide we want TGL, we will have
time to research Literacy as Philo at max only takes 12 turns (-2 gpt).
IBT: The English move away from our hill near Allegheny.
Turn 1, 1700 BC:
Niagara Falls: worker->barracks
Grand Rapids: curragh->barracks
Cattaraugus: worker->worker
I think about things a little more and decide Allegheny isn't going to have more than maybe 4 shields
any time soon so I switch the prebuild-granary to barracks. Around 100 turns to finish TGL or 50 to finish
SoZ doesn't seem feasible. Spike heads back north to explore the core of the English empire.
Turn 2, 1675BC:
Allegheny: barracks->spear
Begin building a road to the horses. Spike finds even more bananas.
IBT: Mongols establish an embassy at our capital.
Turn 3, 1650BC:
Salamanca: settler->settler
Settler heads south. Scared of the Mongol culture, I decide to move the dots as suggested by pindicator.
Mongols have also learned HBR, but it doesn't seem like they're willing to part with it for anything
we could offer.
Turn 4, 1625BC:
The English really don't seem to have done much if anything about that jungle.
Turn 5, 1600BC:
The English start SoZ in Nottingham which is a jungle village with maybe 1 shield.
Spike heads back home.
Turn 6, 1575BC:
It was extremely quiet throughout the empire around 1575BC.
Turn 7, 1550BC:
Salamanca: settler->spear
Oil Springs: warrior->barracks
Don't really know what to build here. Still no horses hooked up so can't even build chariots for
upgrades. I figure spears can at least defend the mounties in the jungle. Our curragh in north
discovers blue borders, but they're at a suicide distance. I reckon
it's better to have a 50% shot at a new contact now and give it a try...
Turn 8, 1525BC:
... and the curragh survives! We meet the Hittites. Currently our contacts include
- England, who are up CB, IW and Mas, down Writing,
- Mongols, who are up IW and HBR,
- Hittites, who are up CB, IW, HBR and Mas.
Philosophy is currently due in 4.
We found Tonawanda and finally have the horses inside our borders. Still lacking the road though.
Turn 9, 1500BC:
Allegheny: spear->spear
The northern curragh which just found the Hittites faces a difficult choice: whether to start going
around the Hittites in hope of finding another civilization, or turn back towards the lime borders
and face the wrath of the sea for the second time. The captain decides to push forward and to the west.
IBT: The Aztecs build The Pyramids. The English build the SoZ. The Incas build the Oracle.
Turn 10, 1475BC:
Salamanca: spear->spear
Another quiet year.
Turn 11, 1450BC:
Cattaraugus: worker->curragh
It looks like we need one more curragh to go meet the lime people.
IBT: Our prophets learn the secret of Philosophy and as it turns out we were the first
great thinkers of the world. That nets us Code of Laws as well. The English found Coventry
quite close to our borders.
Turn 12, 1425BC:
Salamanca: spear->MoM
I think I will stop here even though it's not quite the whole 15 turns. Several reasons:
- We're up Philo and CoL on everyone we know so there's plenty of trading opportunities.
- We are also only a couple of turns away from learning to know the pink people far in the west, which should give even more opportunities for trade.
- Deciding on the next research project is kind of a big deal too, personally I'd choose Republic at minimum (only 47 turns on max) but there are other options.
- And the most important reason: I couldn't really patch up any kind of a plan.. we had no room to expand, no really useful military units to build and not much for buildings either. Better to let someone else formulate the next plan.
Even so, we should be in a pretty good shape. After trading we ought to be at least competitive in tech, if not even tied for the lead. The horses will be hooked up the next turn and we have some barracks as well, so we can finally start building those mounties. Or see if we have any iron (with only 4 hills/mountains it'd be a little lucky) and build swords.
I can't offer much advice for the next player, except don't be afraid to switch production anywhere, especially that MoM.
Finally a couple of pictures.. first, here's the Dark England. At least they've managed to build a road between York and London.
And here's our mighty empire as of 1425BC.
*****
And finally the save: com2_1425bc.sav
*****
pindicator
Emperor
Okay, so it's debateable 
In any case, I think the main reason we should pick up Wheel over Iron Working is just a chance of actually having the resource (or having it close enough to pick up). We only have 4 possible tiles in our entire territory that iron could possibly be, while the horse has 30+ potential tiles to show up on. Now, there's also our island to the north which could potentially have either resource, but that would require us getting to Map Making not to mention connecting it to our mainland.
I'd grant that swords are more desireable than horses in the jungle where the horses' movement bonus is nullified, but the odds of us obtaining iron are very slim IMO.
Edit: Well, it's a moot point now as the turn's have been played.
In any case, I think the main reason we should pick up Wheel over Iron Working is just a chance of actually having the resource (or having it close enough to pick up). We only have 4 possible tiles in our entire territory that iron could possibly be, while the horse has 30+ potential tiles to show up on. Now, there's also our island to the north which could potentially have either resource, but that would require us getting to Map Making not to mention connecting it to our mainland.
I'd grant that swords are more desireable than horses in the jungle where the horses' movement bonus is nullified, but the odds of us obtaining iron are very slim IMO.
Edit: Well, it's a moot point now as the turn's have been played.
