Sorry, I don't understand anything in that Wiki article, and "BICBW" looks like alphabet soup.
Computer Questions Not Worth Their Own Thread II
- Thread starter Methos
- Start date
Tommy Vercetti
The Don
Is Discord down for anyone else?
Is there some widespread outage/hack going on? The list of sites down seem pretty diverse:
I guess this is the answer. If you are going to rely on third parties they are always going to let you down.
Cloudflare explains how it managed to break the internet
A large chunk of the web (including your own Vulture Central) fell off the internet this morning as content delivery network Cloudflare suffered a self-inflicted outage.
The incident began at 0627 UTC (2327 Pacific Time) and it took until 0742 UTC (0042 Pacific) before the company managed to bring all its datacenters back online and verify they were working correctly. During this time a variety of sites and services relying on Cloudflare went dark while engineers frantically worked to undo the damage they had wrought short hours previously.
The incident began at 0627 UTC (2327 Pacific Time) and it took until 0742 UTC (0042 Pacific) before the company managed to bring all its datacenters back online and verify they were working correctly. During this time a variety of sites and services relying on Cloudflare went dark while engineers frantically worked to undo the damage they had wrought short hours previously.
Do any of you know the difference between these Asus MBs?
Z390 P
Z690 P
Would one be better than the other? Logical increments is recommending the 690 but my local shop is suggesting the 390.
Z390 P
Z690 P
Would one be better than the other? Logical increments is recommending the 690 but my local shop is suggesting the 390.
The Z390 uses an LGA 1151 socket for 8th and 9th generation Intel processors.
The Z690 has an LGA 1700 socket for Intel 12th generation processors.
Are you replacing a motherboard using an older Intel processor? That is what the Z390 would be for.
If you are building new and have the latest Intel processor, then the Z690 would be the correct motherboard.
The Z690 has an LGA 1700 socket for Intel 12th generation processors.
Are you replacing a motherboard using an older Intel processor? That is what the Z390 would be for.
If you are building new and have the latest Intel processor, then the Z690 would be the correct motherboard.
@leif erikson Great, so if I use an i79700 that would go with the Z390. OK I see I'll need to choose my new processor first and then match the MB to it.
Exactly! Building a new computer? Recommend waiting several months if you can. AMD just launched its new series of processors, the 7000 series. Intel will be launching a new series of processors next month, the 13000 series. In addition, nVidia just announced their new series of GPU's and AMD will announce their next GPU's on November 3rd. All of this will shake up prices and, most likely, lower the older series. GPU prices are crashing atm. So waiting may be a good strategy if you can wait. If not, we can discuss specifics via PM.
I'm not building a new one just replacing key parts. Hmmm... At the moment my cpu is hitting 100C when playing POE and I feel it is time to upgrade my CPU and what that entails. Waiting a couple of weeks might be possible. I hadn't planned on replacing my nvidia 1080Ti but if prices are coming down, maybe I should.
What motherboard do you have now? That will determine what cpu's you can use in it. Unfortunately, Intel has a habit of requiring new motherboards with each new generation of cpu's making upgrading processors require a new motherboard.
1080ti is still a good video card, unless you need ray tracing or dlss.
If the cpu is hitting 100C, maybe the cpu cooler needs some cleaning or a new fan or something?
1080ti is still a good video card, unless you need ray tracing or dlss.
If the cpu is hitting 100C, maybe the cpu cooler needs some cleaning or a new fan or something?
My MB is an Asus z170 plus. I expect to replace it. Some POE folks are suggesting a move to AMD and the R5 or 7
It sounds like you might be able to get away with a good dusting and perhaps re-applying CPU paste between the CPU and its cooler. 100C is the point where most CPUs start slowing down to avoid incinerating themselves, so it's likely that your CPU is slowing down for that reason. The longevity of thermal paste can vary considerably by brand, but if you have a Z170-compatible Skylake (Intel 6000-series) processor, it's old enough that it's plausible the thermal paste has dried out and is no longer effective at helping the CPU cool itself.
Addressing whatever is causing the CPU cooling to be ineffective may obviate the need for an upgrade. The CPU could then run at full speed again.
Aside from that, I expect Q4 2022 to be a good time to upgrade, at least for CPUs. AMD has new CPUs, and their new platform will allow CPU upgrades through at least 2025, which considerably exceeds what Intel offers (usually only one upgrade the following year). Intel's new offerings come out some time in October. New GPUs around... early November I think from AMD? nVIDIA just launched high-end ones but has not announced mid-range offerings, but with the collapse of crypto mining, GPU prices are indeed falling. Q1 2023 may be even better in terms of when to upgrade... but there hasn't been a better time than now in the past 2.5 years. SSDs are cheap. DDR4 RAM is cheap. DDR5 isn't cheap, but is on the way down and is not nearly as expensive as six months ago.
Personally, I'm heavily leaning towards AMD for my likely CPU/motherboard/RAM upgrade. The reason being that they are much more energy efficient, and often also have better performance for multi-threaded tasks (i.e. productivity, rather than gaming). Set their new CPUs to use 65 Watts max, and they are far better than Intel in efficiency. Combined with being able to upgrade the CPU until at least 2025 without upgrading the motherboard, and I think they more than make up for the higher cost of the required DDR5 (Intel's newest CPUs can use either DDR5 or DDR4, the latter being cheaper and not having much of a performance penalty).
Unless you are seeing GPU limitations, I'd be inclined to stick with the 1080 Ti; it's still a good GPU. And with the CPU hitting 100C, some apparent GPU limitations may actually be CPU limitations imposed by thermal throttling.
GPUs are also an even better area for waiting than CPUs. The used market is likely to be flooded with used mining GPUs within weeks, driving prices down across the board, and AMD's November launches should also improve the value proposition. IMO most GPUs are still over-priced relative to pre-pandemic pricing at the moment. AMD's RX 6600 isn't a bad value, but isn't worth switching to if you have a 1080 Ti. The RTX 3050/3060 are overpriced relative to their performance now, but might fall quite a bit by the end of the year or early next year. It looks like nVIDIA is holding off on introducing new midrange GPUs because they have an excess of inventory of existing (RTX 3000 series) parts; the corollary of that is that if they don't sell quickly, their prices will likely fall, and the used-mining-GPU-glut is likely to result in the new ones not selling very quickly.
nVIDIA's new high-end offerings are only worth it if you absolutely need the best possible performance. Otherwise, IMO, they are priced very highly, and don't offer better performance-per-dollar than the previous generation, just higher performance at a higher cost. From the articles I've read written by people more knowledgeable in that area than I am, AMD's November offerings are likely to be more cost-effective due to a different hardware approach that allows them to build chips of similar performance for a significantly lower cost. We'll see if that pans out in consumer pricing (or if they pocket the savings), but I would not advise buying an RTX 4080 or 4090 right now.
Addressing whatever is causing the CPU cooling to be ineffective may obviate the need for an upgrade. The CPU could then run at full speed again.
Aside from that, I expect Q4 2022 to be a good time to upgrade, at least for CPUs. AMD has new CPUs, and their new platform will allow CPU upgrades through at least 2025, which considerably exceeds what Intel offers (usually only one upgrade the following year). Intel's new offerings come out some time in October. New GPUs around... early November I think from AMD? nVIDIA just launched high-end ones but has not announced mid-range offerings, but with the collapse of crypto mining, GPU prices are indeed falling. Q1 2023 may be even better in terms of when to upgrade... but there hasn't been a better time than now in the past 2.5 years. SSDs are cheap. DDR4 RAM is cheap. DDR5 isn't cheap, but is on the way down and is not nearly as expensive as six months ago.
Personally, I'm heavily leaning towards AMD for my likely CPU/motherboard/RAM upgrade. The reason being that they are much more energy efficient, and often also have better performance for multi-threaded tasks (i.e. productivity, rather than gaming). Set their new CPUs to use 65 Watts max, and they are far better than Intel in efficiency. Combined with being able to upgrade the CPU until at least 2025 without upgrading the motherboard, and I think they more than make up for the higher cost of the required DDR5 (Intel's newest CPUs can use either DDR5 or DDR4, the latter being cheaper and not having much of a performance penalty).
Unless you are seeing GPU limitations, I'd be inclined to stick with the 1080 Ti; it's still a good GPU. And with the CPU hitting 100C, some apparent GPU limitations may actually be CPU limitations imposed by thermal throttling.
GPUs are also an even better area for waiting than CPUs. The used market is likely to be flooded with used mining GPUs within weeks, driving prices down across the board, and AMD's November launches should also improve the value proposition. IMO most GPUs are still over-priced relative to pre-pandemic pricing at the moment. AMD's RX 6600 isn't a bad value, but isn't worth switching to if you have a 1080 Ti. The RTX 3050/3060 are overpriced relative to their performance now, but might fall quite a bit by the end of the year or early next year. It looks like nVIDIA is holding off on introducing new midrange GPUs because they have an excess of inventory of existing (RTX 3000 series) parts; the corollary of that is that if they don't sell quickly, their prices will likely fall, and the used-mining-GPU-glut is likely to result in the new ones not selling very quickly.
nVIDIA's new high-end offerings are only worth it if you absolutely need the best possible performance. Otherwise, IMO, they are priced very highly, and don't offer better performance-per-dollar than the previous generation, just higher performance at a higher cost. From the articles I've read written by people more knowledgeable in that area than I am, AMD's November offerings are likely to be more cost-effective due to a different hardware approach that allows them to build chips of similar performance for a significantly lower cost. We'll see if that pans out in consumer pricing (or if they pocket the savings), but I would not advise buying an RTX 4080 or 4090 right now.
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Agree with you but would also add that waiting for CPU's is still a good idea as AMD is expected to announce X3D models of the new 7000 series CPU's and if they do anything like what happened with the 5800 X3D, I'll look at that.
On the GPU front, we are also waiting on AMD RDNA3 GPU's, expected announcement date is early November, iirc.
I'm still on AM4 because it is, soon maybe was, an awesome platform. The only thing that will stink is when they move on to DDR5 and DDR4 starts to get expensive.
On the GPU front, we are also waiting on AMD RDNA3 GPU's, expected announcement date is early November, iirc.
I'm still on AM4 because it is, soon maybe was, an awesome platform. The only thing that will stink is when they move on to DDR5 and DDR4 starts to get expensive.
My understanding is the X3D models are likely to be some time next year, probably spring? They'd definitely be the top option for someone with the gaming GPU demands and high-refresh monitor to take advantage of them. But if buying soon, 5800X3D versus 7000-series is a debatable point.
I read today that RDNA3 is likely to be announced in November, but not arrive until December. I'd previously thought it would be available in November. Oh well, I don't really need a new GPU anyway, my current one is only six years old (my, how much longer technology lasts than 20 years ago...).
My guess is DDR4 will stay affordable for a long time. If you're willing to buy used, DDR3 is currently at all-time-low pricing, many years after it stopped being mainstream for new builds. The trick, as always, is timing the market. Right now we're near a low point in the cycle, though DDR5 still has the new-tech premium to some extent.
I'd stay on AM4 for now if I were already on it, and going by the sales figures from Mindfactory, a lot of people are doing just that. I think the high motherboard pricing at launch also discouraged a lot of people from buying Ryzen 7000; if it had been more reasonable I might have been a week 1 upgrader, but as-is I think I'll stick with LGA 1155 for another month or two, and see if there are good Black Friday or after-the-holidays sales, while waiting for more B650 (midrange) motherboards to reach the market. Paying $280 for the lowest-end X670 motherboard to go with a $300 CPU just doesn't make sense, which is probably why the highest-end 7950X is the best-selling so far. Which goes back to leif's point about waiting for CPUs, even if it's more about waiting for motherboards in my case...
I read today that RDNA3 is likely to be announced in November, but not arrive until December. I'd previously thought it would be available in November. Oh well, I don't really need a new GPU anyway, my current one is only six years old (my, how much longer technology lasts than 20 years ago...).
My guess is DDR4 will stay affordable for a long time. If you're willing to buy used, DDR3 is currently at all-time-low pricing, many years after it stopped being mainstream for new builds. The trick, as always, is timing the market. Right now we're near a low point in the cycle, though DDR5 still has the new-tech premium to some extent.
I'd stay on AM4 for now if I were already on it, and going by the sales figures from Mindfactory, a lot of people are doing just that. I think the high motherboard pricing at launch also discouraged a lot of people from buying Ryzen 7000; if it had been more reasonable I might have been a week 1 upgrader, but as-is I think I'll stick with LGA 1155 for another month or two, and see if there are good Black Friday or after-the-holidays sales, while waiting for more B650 (midrange) motherboards to reach the market. Paying $280 for the lowest-end X670 motherboard to go with a $300 CPU just doesn't make sense, which is probably why the highest-end 7950X is the best-selling so far. Which goes back to leif's point about waiting for CPUs, even if it's more about waiting for motherboards in my case...
Agree with most everything you wrote. I think the high price of entry for AM5 and the unknown about future processors and graphics cards is making people wait before they leap into a new platform, especially given the stability and longevity of AM4, the cheap DDR4 and processors like the 5800X3D's performance compared to 7000 series. I was surprised to see on Hardware Unboxed that the new nVidia RTX4090 is causing bottlenecks with the 5800X3D now. If RDNA3 is anywhere close to that performance, I think you will see people jump to AM5, especially if the 7000X3D CPU's are much faster than 5800X3D.
Of course, the real issue will always be price to performance and just how much speed one really needs to play their favorite games...
Of course, the real issue will always be price to performance and just how much speed one really needs to play their favorite games...
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 8,756
Not sure where to ask; could be here or in science/math.
Is there an outlier test in Excel?
Is there an outlier test in Excel?
thetrooper
Misanthrope
- Joined
- May 24, 2004
- Messages
- 8,756
Visually is okay but better still to have it quantifiable. I did play around with Grubb’s test many years ago.
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