Cuba and US to normalize relations

[onejayhawk]

Not true from what you've posted. You seem to have arbitrarily decided that only the first definition qualifies as a republic. I don't know why.

Why not highlight 2 and 3 instead? Then you'd see that my broader definition fits Cuba too.

2. any body of persons viewed as a commonwealth.
3. a state in which the head of government is not a monarch or other hereditary head of state.

In which case Cuba has been a republic ever since independence from Spain. (I think.)

According to your definition the Romans never had a republic, even though they invented the word.

Since the first definition describes the Romans closely, I do not get your last comment.

I might grant the second, since it is so vague it applies to almost everything. This is a monoarchy (rule by one), so the third one does not apply at all. Fidel was not called "king", but that is a quibble.

J

 

[Farm Boy]

Just stop.

No, thank you. I won't. You'll note I put them in the company of people I disagree with, people I often like and have respect for up until they start attempting to legislate their anti secular anti science beliefs upon the public.

 

[MobBoss]

I don't mind normalizing relations with Cuba...I'd just wish they would wait for Castro and Raul to die off first.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

There are a million to take their place...

You see, the Cubans are the most educated population in the hemisphere, according to UNESCO, Jonathan Kozol, the EU, and EVERYONE ON THE PLANET WHO IS AN EXPERT IN EDUCATION AND PEDAGOGY.

So, Marxism-Leninism, ftw!

Boo-ya!

 

[Borachio]

Since the first definition describes the Romans closely, I do not get your last comment.

I might grant the second, since it is so vague it applies to almost everything. This is a monoarchy (rule by one), so the third one does not apply at all. Fidel was not called "king", but that is a quibble.

J

Does it? I didn't know Roman citizens were entitled to vote in the sense that we'd recognize it. I thought they did it mainly by shouting. Still, I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter.

But I was just taking republic to mean something broad on the lines of a "thing to do with people".

As far as I know the Cuban head of state didn't inherit his position, nor is he likely to pass it on to his son. Though it will likely stay in the Fidel dynasty one or way or another. Still, that happens with elected Presidents of the US and other countries as well. These political dynasties do tend to persist.

 

[luiz]

I honestly don't know what's more insulting: to assume that RT knows everything he says is utter nonsense and is just following the party line, or to assume that he actually believes what he writes, the implication of which being that he is clinically insane.

I don't even know how to engage in a debate with him anymore, he just makes up stuff every single time. It's bizarre.

And shame on CFCs leftist community for not calling him out on all this madness. If a "libertarian" says something slightly nonsensical I know exactly what posters will descend upon the thread in their rightful fury, but RT here says 97% of Cubans vote and approve the regime and they're all quiet. He says they were always been free to leave, in a country with God damn exit visas, and they're all quiet. Funny stuff.

Moderator Action: Please don't imply that other posters are clinically insane.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Borachio]

I've previously tried to point out the nonsense. But it made no difference.

So let him post away. It doesn't do any harm. If you can't bear to read it, then don't.

The stuff about Korea is even more nonsense.

Or is it, eh? What do I know about either Cuba or North Korea, in the final analysis? I've certainly never been to either of them. How do I know they even exist?

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Luiz, I said 97% of the voting ae population approved the 1978 Constitution.

My bad, 90% Turnout in 2013, down from 96% turnout in 2008. But the 2013 numbers are not verified.

Still, even 90% beats 37%... Boo-ya!

 

[onejayhawk]

Does it? I didn't know Roman citizens were entitled to vote in the sense that we'd recognize it. I thought they did it mainly by shouting. Still, I bow to your superior knowledge on the matter.

But I was just taking republic to mean something broad on the lines of a "thing to do with people".

As far as I know the Cuban head of state didn't inherit his position, nor is he likely to pass it on to his son. Though it will likely stay in the Fidel dynasty one or way or another. Still, that happens with elected Presidents of the US and other countries as well. These political dynasties do tend to persist.

Bear in mind that it was not easy to become a Roman citizen. The definition seems to use Rome as it's model, so interpret the definition accordingly. Imperial Rome was a monarchy, but not (mostly) an hereiditary one.

Monarchy means rule by (-archy) one (mono). Bureaucracy means rule by desks. An hereditary monarchy is a subgroup of monarchies, in which the monarch is from a specific dynastic family. Despite the fact that Raul followed Fidel, I do not claim that distinction.

J

 

[onejayhawk]

Luiz, I said 97% of the voting ae population approved the 1978 Constitution.

My bad, 90% Turnout in 2013, down from 96% turnout in 2008. But the 2013 numbers are not verified.

Still, even 90% beats 37%... Boo-ya!

90% beats 97% because it shows progress toward freedom. Compelled consent is not consent.

Still, you are half right. Boo.

J

 

[Borachio]

Monarchy means rule by (-archy) one (mono). Bureaucracy means rule by desks. An hereditary monarchy is a subgroup of monarchies, in which the monarch is from a specific dynastic family. Despite the fact that Raul followed Fidel, I do not claim that distinction.

J

I can't argue with that.


So I won't try.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

It is not compelled. Please cite your sources for this "compulsion."

More on Cuba's highly developed and equitable justice system.

The figure on the % of those who voted for the Constitution 1976, not 1978 (sorry) were from a presentation by the Union Of Cuban Jurists, October 2014, in Havana, Cuba, attended by my attorney room mate.

 

[Flying Pig]

You mean the UN Education Index? Sceptical as I am of education statistics in general, doesn't that one entirely focus on the years spent in education?

EDIT: Much cross-posted - was directed at RT's claim about Cuba being measured as one of the world's best-educated countries.

 

[Borachio]

It is not compelled. Please cite your sources for this "compulsion."

More on Cuba's highly developed and equitable justice system.

The figure on the % of those who voted for the Constitution 1976, not 1978 (sorry) were from a presentation by the Union Of Cuban Jurists, October 2014, in Havana, Cuba, attended by my attorney room mate.

If it's not compulsion, what explains the high voter turnout?

And why, in the name of all that's rational, do you keep quoting figures from the 1970s? Are those the most up-to-date available?

 

[ReindeerThistle]

Is voting compulsory in Denmark? How you explain Denmark's high voter turnout?

For one, Cubans are involved in their politics. They are also voting for people they know. Big difference.

 

[Borachio]

Well, yeah. Involvement*. How do you ensure involvement? The Scottish referendum got people involved. Now, other people are wondering how to get the habit to catch on for a wider constituency, while, no doubt, yet more others are wondering how to stop it.

*I'm still not convinced it wasn't compulsion in Cuba. "Vote now. And vote this way. (Please. Thankyou. That'll do nicely.)."

 

[luiz]

The latest parliamentary election in Denmark had a 57% voter turnout, in case anyone's wondering.

 

[Borachio]

Strangely, I have some confidence that that figure is more or less accurate and does represent true voter participation. I really can't put my finger on why.

Something to do with reputation, I suppose. And easy thing to lose. Much more difficult to regain once lost.

 

[ReindeerThistle]

You mean the UN Education Index? Sceptical as I am of education statistics in general, doesn't that one entirely focus on the years spent in education?

EDIT: Much cross-posted - was directed at RT's claim about Cuba being measured as one of the world's best-educated countries.

Well, here's the World Bank's take on Cuba's education

 

[Flying Pig]

Well, yeah. Involvement*. How do you ensure involvement? The Scottish referendum got people involved. Now, other people are wondering how to get the habit to catch on for a wider constituency, while, no doubt, yet more others are wondering how to stop it.

*I'm still not convinced it wasn't compulsion in Cuba. "Vote now. And vote this way. (Please. Thankyou. That'll do nicely.)."

Possibly, but it's not out of the question that an island collectively obsessed with a certain brand of politics ('politically-neutral public servant' isn't really a phrase in the Workers' Paradise) that's small enough to cover in polling stations will have huge, predictable turnouts without anything that could technically be called foul play, especially if they're not overly bothered with registration - or, conversely, if they make it so that only keen people are registered to vote and then count the turnout of registered voters.