Current (SVN) development discussion thread

Does it? I don't think it does.
Well I loaded 3 Japan starts and Govapuri is in all 3 at the exact same location (and India is using it as a staging ground for its SoDs to beat Tamils into pulp in all 3 timelines), so I just assumed.

Indie spawning in South Asia needs a scale back overall, especially after Harappans are added too. Indie Varanasi needs to be removed, perhaps even Delhi along with it, as we shall have Harappa & Lothal instead (unless you wish to auto-raze those or something).
 
Personally I really don't see what Harappa has to give for gameplay?:confused:

Maybe Leoreth is just trying to make a civilization that difficult that even you can't win domination with it :lol:
 
I've implemented most of the suggested buffs for the Tamils and Germany, will commit them soon, please report back.

Also, I've changed the persecution AI. Previously it only took the city itself into account, and decided based on the present religious unhappiness and the general tendency of the LH to dislike other religions. This resulted either in civs that didn't persecute at all or persecuted at every opportunity, which isn't completely what I wanted.

Now they take their whole empire into account, i.e. start persecuting earlier when there are multiple foreign religions, but stop with some foreign religions still present.

I hope this has the intended effect, and the AI didn't stop to persecute completely.

Also, I've added a waiting time between persecution so the AI doesn't endlessly persecute all the time (i.e. the AI waits, the player doesn't have to).

And even though the build missionaries strategy is a mess, I tried to stop the AI from building missionaries if the intended target has persecuted recently, to avoid the missionary-persecution-missionary deadlock that has been mentioned elsewhere.

I'd like to hear your observations about how that turned out, too.
 
Haha I remember the AI Maratha and AI Indonesia persecuting all Islam & Hindu cities from their country until there's nothing but Buddhism in all their territory by the Modern Era :p

Is it already committed by now?

Btw, random idea about persecution : Can pagan civ persecute? Like in Rome's persecution of the Christians :p
 
Haha I remember the AI Maratha and AI Indonesia persecuting all Islam & Hindu cities from their country until there's nothing but Buddhism in all their territory by the Modern Era :p

Is it already committed by now?

Btw, random idea about persecution : Can pagan civ persecute? Like in Rome's persecution of the Christians :p

Hindus shouldn't persecute Buddhists and vice-versa.
 
Btw, random idea about persecution : Can pagan civ persecute? Like in Rome's persecution of the Christians :p
No, you need a state religion to be able to persecute.
 
What norm?

Hindus and Buddhists weren't at each other throats like most religions and of course it costs the AI nothing if they are Hindu to allow Buddhists.


Tamil and Ethiopia have same Embassy icon, mutatis mutandis Khmer and Indonesia. Something is funky with the Byzantine Embassy icon causing it to have a transparent background and extra large (check under Paper or Civil Service).
 
Hindus and Buddhists weren't at each other throats like most religions and of course it costs the AI nothing if they are Hindu to allow Buddhists.

Are we talking about things IRL or in the game? :confused::crazyeye:
Well, IRL, there's some dynasty, like this Sunga in India, for example that doesn't really fond of Buddhism. There's one too in China, but I don't remember who.

In game, afaik Leoreth already let zero intolerance between Hinduism & Buddhism, as Confucianism toward Taoism :goodjob:

mutatis mutandis

Thank you for spawning a new phrase (for me, at least) :king:
Mind explaining what does it mean or replace? I've seen the Google and can't find any suitable answers..
 
Are we talking about things IRL or in the game? :confused::crazyeye:
Well, IRL, there's some dynasty, like this Sunga in India, for example that doesn't really fond of Buddhism. There's one too in China, but I don't remember who.

In game, afaik Leoreth already let zero intolerance between Hinduism & Buddhism, as Confucianism toward Taoism :goodjob:



Thank you for spawning a new phrase (for me, at least) :king:
Mind explaining what does it mean or replace? I've seen the Google and can't find any suitable answers..

The AI as a general rule shouldn't persecute them if they have that religion, plus where they overlap is generally quite short of hammers anyway.


Tamil and Ethiopia have same Embassy icon+mutatis mutandis Khmer and Indonesia=Khmer and Indonesia have same Embassy icon
 

^This is generally my philosophy regarding DoC post-1.81 as opposed to iOnlySignIn's Promethean philosophy :lol:
With the sole exception of more African civs (Kongo & Zulu), I feel like we've reached a sufficient number of civs.
India's getting hella crowded, yo. And I agree with j. Pride or whoever first said it,
the "Indians" might as well be renamed the Mauryans now.

I honestly hope de-colonization civs aren't going to be a major focus,
considering they should just for the most part be treated as extensions of a specific civilization.
Don't really understand why people keep riding the hype train for those.
If they do get in, at least rename it Dawn of Nation-States. DoNS.

wayneknight.jpg


Dawn of Nation-States. DoNS.
 
A modmodmod of Dawn of Civilization :crazyeye:

I do believe in change, but gradually. I don't know what to think about Tamils & Harappa.
Not going to knock on the idea since I know iOnlySignIn & Leoreth put a lot of work into it, but I think the time could be used better.
If anything needs to be changed, it's things that have to do with the interface like pathfinding and improving the selections.
Sometimes, I'll try and SHIFT or CTRL click stacks to separate certain units, and it'll highlight others because I stacked them before.
That is a problem from native BtS that could be nicely fixed up here.
There's also balance issues that strike me as really odd. For instance, I played a Persia game, and Shush flipped to me. Yay.
I know to avoid Babylon because it's in the Arab flip zone, and Shush is my capital. Arabs spawn, they want to flip Shush. FFS.

Wat.

So wait a minute...squatting is allowed for the AI...(Mongols with Beijing, Byzantines with Constantinople, I assure you, Ottomans don't flip it and they don't try to conquer it either.),
but it's not for the player? Huh? Even when I can't control it? [-insert Dark Phoenix joke here-]
Also, speaking of Mongols...I did not know they flipped Samarqand, it kind of ruined my Persian Domination attempt;
INB4 "was already like that in vanilla", but it kind of just boxes Persia in a little too much for my taste.

Basically, I flipped a city just to have it flip to someone else later.
That should never be the case. I think either it should be:
-Persia does not get Shush flipped
OR
-Persia does get Shush flipped. Arabs don't.

I would be fine with either of those. But likely the former; considering the Persians conquered their way through Mesopotamia (I would advocate extra Immortals on spawn to compensate),
while the Arabs peacefully absorbed Mesopotamia (best modeled with the flip).

Overlapping flip zones are a logistical nightmare for players.
Even if you don't play optimally, no player wants to deal with flips.
I think it is common that no player in their right of mind would ever settle New York, for that specific reason.
There is no incentive for settling historically unless you enjoy taking stability hits/losing.

But since we are encouraging tightly packed city settlement,
we might as well do something to encourage settlement in places where we know they're going to flip.
 
1.81 contains some unpolished stuff, like unplayable Mughals. I am fine with 1.9, though. Prussia/HRE split, with some changes, turned to be fine, unlike I feared.

I know to avoid Babylon because it's in the Arab flip zone
In the Persian game I am playing, I rejected the flip and won over the Arabs using War Elephants. It was quite a harrowing war, though. On occasion I felt that I am losing. The third wave of Arabian units was composed of War Elephants, Catapults and Immortals that went over to them after I refused the flip. Good thing that the Babylonians had built the Pyramids (Ancient BTS Kremlin in DoC) when I conquered them, and I was able to abuse the whip, whipping more and more Immortals and War Elephants, surrounding the Arabs in Jerusalem.

So wait a minute...squatting is allowed for the AI...(Mongols with Beijing, Byzantines with Constantinople, I assure you, Ottomans don't flip it and they don't try to conquer it either.),
Constantinople is a special case, though. In most cases the shock of Turkish spawn is enough to collapse Byzantium. Then Turks get Istanbul.

What happens with Beijing?
 
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