Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[citis]

Not really, Greeks in both mainland and anatolian coast revolted against Persian rule. However, I remember Byzantium being historical for them.

On the other hand their UP should take care of their stability. Achaemenid empire finished by conquest, not by internal issues, it was one of the most successful ancient systems in terms of stability.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Oh, now I get it. Maybe the threshold is too harsh for small cities, I'll look at it again. Not too fond of extra rules for OCC.

I was more thinking of either small cities or the capital, because whipping just once or having a religion spread to the city (which in some cases one has no choice over) completely screws over the happiness for a smaller city limited by the crowding factor. It ends up as a lose-lose and results in huge happiness maluses for OCCs and/or smaller civs even when happiness equals or exceeds unhappiness. I don't think using non-crowding unhappiness to population is a very good metric, maybe non-crowding unhappiness to happiness from sources other than difficulty level?

 

[Leoreth]

Looking at the code again, the way it's intended to be is that it should be impossible to have positive or negative happiness stability with just one city. That it currently does is the fault of a rounding error.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Looking at the code again, the way it's intended to be is that it should be impossible to have positive or negative happiness stability with just one city. That it currently does is the fault of a rounding error.

Great!

On another topic, how come research costs don't change anymore? I'm finding it nigh impossible to play as many civs simply because the research costs are really high since they don't reset at 620 AD.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't remember having changed anything there recently, but I threw out a lot of code that seemed pointless a while back when touching the tech cost calculations.

My autoplay experiences suggest an alright tech pace so I thought that was an acceptable change?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

I don't remember having changed anything there recently, but I threw out a lot of code that seemed pointless a while back when touching the tech cost calculations.

My autoplay experiences suggest an alright tech pace so I thought that was an acceptable change?

The tech costs don't reset at dates anymore, resulting in extremely expensive tech costs (Aesthetics/other classical techs still cost in the 800s in beakers by 1200 AD, at least for Ancient civs). This makes the game unplayable for early civs (I haven't seen whether the costs are more expensive for late civs or not).

 

[Panopticon]

To me, Prussia-Germany seems very technologically advanced at birth now.

I wonder if it's because of less tech trade?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

To me, Prussia-Germany seems very technologically advanced at birth now.

I wonder if it's because of less tech trade?

That and the lack of tech reduction costs. I played as Poland the other day and I could not into space research a tech at any viable rate (engineering looked to take ~50-60 turns after settling and putting up commerce buildings) but I was still at the top in tech solely off of my starting techs because the costs were so high.

Fewer tech trades aren't actually that bad, it gives people more of an incentive to get Astronomy, but the new method that the AI uses to prioritize techs makes it impossible to get a good trade. Leo, do you think that you could provide more info on how that works and why the tech costs remain so high?

 

[Leoreth]

No, I'm actually surprised by these observations and that they haven't been brought up before, considering that these changes are several weeks ago.

Also, there haven't been any changes in tech trading.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

No, I'm actually surprised by these observations and that they haven't been brought up before, considering that these changes are several weeks ago.

Also, there haven't been any changes in tech trading.

Really? I thought you introduced some new rubric for AI trading. Did it only apply for resources?

 

[Leoreth]

Yes, resources only.

 

[LacsiraxAriscal]

What speed was that on with Engineering in 60 turns or so? Just to say I'm doing an Epic Vikings run through and I went straight for Engineering (not UHV ofc), took me 40-45.

 

[mrrandomplayer]

What speed was that on with Engineering in 60 turns or so? Just to say I'm doing an Epic Vikings run through and I went straight for Engineering (not UHV ofc), took me 40-45.

This is on Normal.

I'll run a few more games as Euros and see how this goes. It certainly screws over Ancient and Classical civs, some of which are meant to survive into the Medieval era. The AI have also been researching really slow. I still had a tech lead in the Poland game because I spawned with techs the AI was too slow to research.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

I understand that there is a new graphics algorithm in this one that only renders what is necessary. My question is how it handles fog of war. Does it render things under the fog or not?

 

[youtien]

Now spies are too important. The only way to play big is mass armies and spies early, do not research by yourself until you got a big land basis.

 

[Leoreth]

I understand that there is a new graphics algorithm in this one that only renders what is necessary. My question is how it handles fog of war. Does it render things under the fog or not?

Units in general are only rendered when they come into view.

 

[PPQ_Purple]

Units in general are only rendered when they come into view.

Any idea how much if at all that improves playability on 32 bit systems?

 

[mrrandomplayer]

Now spies are too important. The only way to play big is mass armies and spies early, do not research by yourself until you got a big land basis.

So it's essentially impossible to OCC now because of no more tech resets? I think DoC is pretty much unplayable for me at that point.

 

[citis]

Spying shouldn't be the primary source of research. Reducing the cost of most advanced techs makes sence, but is should be useless to steal a tech known by let's say 3 civs.

Or at least make it equal at cost. (Or a little more, beacause there are more espionage producing building than science).

 

[Leoreth]

I'm just going to point out that one of the letters in OCC is for challenge. I'll never balance the game around it.