Current v1.13 Development Discussion

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I'm kind of disappointed that nobody guessed it though

Oooohhh well that gives us a hint already at what it is. Or what it isn't, rather. I'm just going to speculate out loud then :)

From the way you're talking about it's going to be an major addition or overhaul, and you did say it was interconnected aspects so it's gotta be something that affects all levels of gameplay. It's most likely not just one civ or one mechanic, but it could be a mechanic overhaul... There was mention earlier of the starting date getting pushed back, so that'll be one of my guesses. Could be anything mechanic-wise; military, rebirths, spawns, collapses.

But yeah, anyone's guess is as good as mine, we'll just have to wait and see :D
 
Starting dates getting pushed back doesn't make sense without new civs and there aren't any available spots right now, so I guess it will come after the change that will allow more civs.
 
Maybe it's the trade routes overhaul.

Religion, new civ are excluded, pushing back the date I think it's excluded. New map, I think it's excluded. Civic changes are excluded? I suppose it affects all civs and not just one.

Maybe implement a new production or wealth mechanic or both? This would be a major addition.
 
Starting dates getting pushed back doesn't make sense without new civs and there aren't any available spots right now, so I guess it will come after the change that will allow more civs.
There are available spots, there's no limit to the number of civs that you can have. Leoreth is worried that any new civs will make the game even slower than it already is. Another early game civ like IVC won't really cause this problem as they'll only be around for early game and then die, never to be seen again, much like Babylon.
 
Another early game civ like IVC won't really cause this problem as they'll only be around for early game and then die, never to be seen again, much like Babylon.

I think that it would cause some problems because many checks are unfortunately also done for dead civs.

And about upcoming big change, it's obviously addition of viewports from c2c and expanding the map to include post-spacerace Alpha Centauri colonization.
 
Yes. I had a brilliant idea: I can easily remove civ slots when I first remove all civs!
 
Yes. I had a brilliant idea: I can easily remove civ slots when I first remove all civs!
Spoiler :

Why didn't we think of that before? Removing all civs will also greatly decrease turn times, and remove the need for a lot of overhauls. I see no reason to not go ahead with it.

Follow your dreams!
 
leoreth yuo are of genius!
 
Ever notice how beautiful the map looks before you and the AIs start founding cities and building units?
 
New commit: WARNING: this revision breaks savegame compatibility.

Included the SuperSpies mod component:
- Spies can now get experience from successful missions or intercepting other spies
- new Spy promotions to improve their abilities
- Spies do not start with Commando anymore
- Intelligence Agency now also gives +2 experience to Spies
- Security Bureau lets all Spies start with the Security promotion, increasing their chances to intercept other spies
- Interpol gives an additional +3 experience to Spies

Changed Spy specialists and Great Spies:
- Spy specialist has been removed from the game
- Great Spies are now created like Great Generals: a new Great Spy is born as soon as enough Spy experience has been accumulated
- adjusted the interface so that Spy experience until the next Great Spy is displayed
- Great Spies cannot start Golden Ages anymore

New specialist: Statesman
- generates +2 commerce and +3 GPP (Great Statesman)
- can be hired with Palace, Courthouse, Castle, Jail

New Great Person type: Great Statesman
- represents politicians, political philosophers, political scientists and political activists
- can discover technologies (new Civics flavor associated with a number of appropriate technologies)
- can start a golden age
- can build Administrative Center (requires 8 Courthouses): counts as a government center for city maintenance
- can resolve a crisis: immediately ends anarchy and removes unrest from all cities
- can reform the government: allows to change civics this turn without anarchy
- can conduct a diplomatic mission: EITHER immediately make peace with a civ you are at war with OR improve relations and reduce past transgression penalties with a civ you are at peace with
- can join city as a Great Statesman (+4 commerce)
- some wonders now create Great Statesman points, especially those which previously generated Great Spy points

Further espionage related adjustments:
- reduced the amount of raw espionage from Intelligence Agencies and Security Bureaus
- reduced the Espionage modifier of Jails from 50% to 25%
- Instead of double Spy specialists, Totalitarianism now gives +1 espionage per specialist

So I kind of won because nobody expected this ;)

Some remarks:
- I haven't really played with this so I have no idea how this balances out, but I thought your combined feedback would be more valuable than my limited experiences
- I have included everything from the SuperSpies mod except the ability to convert production to espionage (you're powerful enough if you can outproduce your enemies imo). Some of the new promotions seem rather powerful, but at the same espionage has been limited in several ways so I'll wait how this balances out
- Great Spies require the same amount of experience as Great Generals do, since generally less spy experience will be acquired this means that there will be less of them, which I think is okay (their counters are still separate of course, so when the GG threshold increases the GSpy threshold stays the same). Actually even then I might have to reduce the amount of espionage from the infiltrate mission or let it scale with era like Great Works do
- the Resolve Crisis and Reform Government missions seem to have very similar effects right now (either avoid anarchy or remove it afterwards), however note that Reform Government also works when the "recent revolution" timer is still up. I have some other long term plans that will make these two missions more distinct though.
- not sure if I keep the instant peace effect for Diplomatic Missions in, I'll wait if it will be involved in some cheese going forward
- the AI does understand the new Great Statesman missions to some extent, and will make use of the Diplomatic Mission to peace out before capitulating for example
- graphics still need to be done: currently, Great Statesmen use Great Artist unit graphics and the Citizen icon in the city screen. These are just placeholders of course and I will look around for substitutes soon.
- there also need to be civ specific names for Great Statesmen, I will coordinate a community driven effort to find them soon, please wait with opening any threads if you are already interested
 
I was wondering, will there ever be a new type of great person? There's a mod (History rewritten) with Great Doctors (perhaps they have other types, I don't remember).

I would love to see one type of Great Person that honors Political Scientists, Journalists, Diplomats, Social Workers, Legislators, Judges, and Lawyers (yeah, some of them have been good!); Nobel Peace Prize laureates would fit this category. Perhaps, but not necessarily, you could link them to the Humanitarian victory conditions you once mentioned you were considering.

These "Great Political Scientists" (or another name) could allow for civics changes without anarchy and have a great building (a special courthouse, or a legislative palace); there are some techs that could be linked to them (most importantly Education, Liberalism, Democracy, Communism). Another idea would be to make them act as ambassadors providing a serious diplomatic bonus with one particular civ where you settle them.

Finally, (and I think this would be their most interesting ability) they could be really valuable if they had the ability to aid over-expansion (following the stability improvement idea). Perhaps you could take them to a city and make them add it to your core (provided it's not somebody else's core), otherwise they could simply introduce a factor that lowers the over-expansion rate.
+1 for being dangerously close with this suggestion though, only a couple of hours after I've announced this mysterious feature. It was kind of freaky to read this post actually, and I had to force myself not to reply because usually I would be all over this kind of suggestion ;)
 
- graphics still need to be done: currently, Great Statesmen use Great Artist unit graphics and the Citizen icon in the city screen. These are just placeholders of course and I will look around for substitutes soon.
- there also need to be civ specific names for Great Statesmen, I will coordinate a community driven effort to find them soon, please wait with opening any threads if you are already interested
"Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn SVN" has art for the Great Statesman (and some names I assume). It also has overhauled Trade routes to reduce turntimes and has removed Inflation with an increase in other expenses. You should have a look at them.
 
Oh that's great. Have only seen them in C2C but didn't like how they did it. Will look into it.

/goestosleepnow
 
A question about the Administrative Center. Can you only build one, or can you produce another for every eight Courthouses you have (2 for 16, 3 for 24, etc.), provided you can keep producing Great Statesmen?
 
+1 for being dangerously close with this suggestion though, only a couple of hours after I've announced this mysterious feature. It was kind of freaky to read this post actually, and I had to force myself not to reply because usually I would be all over this kind of suggestion ;)

Haha, got psychic powers :p. I'm really glad to see this implemented!
 
This is what the art looks like and here are the names taken off Rise of Mankind a New Dawn. I took of the people that are leaders in the game.
Spoiler :
Russia:
Nikita Khrushchev (4th General Secretary)
Vladimir Lenin (2nd General Secretary)
Mikhail Gorbachev (last General Secretary)
Leon Trotsky (People's Commissar of Military and Naval Affairs of the Soviet Union)

America:
James Madison (4th President)
Aaron Burr (3rd Vice-President)
Thomas Jefferson (3rd President)
Alexander Hamilton (1st Treasurer)
Martin Van Buren (8th President)
Robert Livingston (1st Foreign Secratery, Drafter of the Declaration of Independence)
Henry Kissinger (56th Secretary of State)
John Quincy Adams (6th President)
John F. Kennedy (35th President)
Ronald Reagan (40th President)

England:
Edmund Burke (Irish Statesman)
Lord Chesterfield (Statesman)
Lord Melbourne (Prime Minister)
Harold Macmillan (Prime Minister)
Margaret Thatcher (Prime Minister) (Female)

Japan:
Akihito (Current Emperor)

Mexico:
Emiliano Zapata Salazar (Leading Figure in the Mexican Revolution)
Pancho Villa (Prominent Mexican Revolution General)
Pascual Orozco (Mexican Revolutionary Leader)

Greece:
Alcibiades (Statesman)
Cimon (Statesman)
Aristides (Statesman / General)

Arabia:
Yasser Arafat (Palestinian Leader)

Germany:
Willy Brandt 4th (Chancellor of Germany)

Rome:
Marcus Brutus (Senator)
Marcus Antonius (General / Senator)

Vikings:
Birger Jarl (Jarl of Sweden)

China:
Zhuge Liang (Chancellor of Shu Han)

The list is just a tad biased and the greatness of some of these statesmen could be debated.
 

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I'll add some Great Statesman of China:

Shang Yang 395BC-338BC
Li Si 284BC-208BC
Han Fei 280BC-233BC
Zhang Liang 250BC-186BC
Xiao He 257BC-193BC
Cao Cao 155AD-220AD
Zhuge Liang 181AD-234AD
Xie An 320AD-385AD
Wei Zheng 580AD-643AD
Wang Anshi 1021AD-1086AD
Sima Guang 1019AD-1086AD
Wen Tianxiang 1236AD-1283AD
Liu Ji 1311AD-1375AD
Li Hongzhang 1823AD-1901AD
Sun Yat-sen 1866AD-1925AD
Zhou Enlai 1898AD-1976AD

Some may repeat with other GPs. Trust me, they are statemen, not general, merchant, prophet or any others...
 
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