DaftNES V (Turn 5 in progress: Glacial Maximum)

[Immaculate]

@Daftpanzer: I edited my post to adopt an NPC faction

Naua:

What physical characteristic are you adding?
Existing:

• somewhat short and robust build
• bushy hair much lighter than their skin

New:

• white hair

What two new specializations does your tribe develop?
Existing:

• basic boatbuilding
• seafaring lore
• exploring and trading tradition
• net fishing
• celestial navigation
• herbal medicine

New:

• Naua Astrolatry:

Perhaps growing from the use of stars in celestial navigation, around this time the Naua begin developing a unifying religious culture and philosophy based on personification, deification, and worship of the stars.

• Organized Priest Caste/Proselytization

A unifying and organized priest caste begins to develop, maintaining the faith and acting as a cultural conduit amongst the Naua. Beyond uniting the Naua in prayer, religious rites and festivals, the faith also advocates active proselytization (though not persecution of other faiths).

How aggressive/adventurous or cautious is your tribe?
The Naua are very adventurous, making use of their knowledge of the sea and of the stars to maintain a strong link to their exploring and trading tradition.

What are your relations with other tribes?
The Naua are very curious and primarily characterize their relations with other tribes through trade. They sail far and wide to both explore and to develop new opportunities for trade.
They get along well with the Naessu who they share many traits with, the Masa and the Sentri who they consider quite advanced, the Kutan who they like trading with due to the later's own extensive trade routes, and the Mau they get along well with also. They have yet to develop a relationship with the Traessu or the Oai.
The Naua are cautious of non-sapien hominids and may trade with them if possible.
As their priest caste evolves, their priests may wander distant tribes bringing our neighbors the 'good news' of Naua Astrolatry.

Will your people migrate, or remain where they are?
The Naua will not migrate away from their current homes but as their population (or curiosity) grows they will explore new lands, colonizing, trading, and bringing their faith as they do.

 

[Daftpanzer]

So I can influence the Rashaami, Viirna, Omhiir and Rashana, I assume... Do I influence the Yakumo?

Apologies for throwing unfinished ideas out there, let me draw up a moderator-approved list of who has influence over what - I'm thinking it will not be as extensive as that for the Viirsa line, for example. I realise the human 'family tree' is a huge jumble (quite an accurate reflection of real life I think )

 

[Angst]

Apologies for throwing unfinished ideas out there, let me draw up a moderator-approved list of who has influence over what - I'm thinking it will not be as extensive as that for the Viirsa line, for example. I realise the human 'family tree' is a huge jumble (quite an accurate reflection of real life I think )

Yea the Viirsa have intermingled *a lot*, which was why I asked before posting anything The cultural diversity is very cool too. I'll wait for your further instructions.

 

[Daftpanzer]

@Daftpanzer: Posting this but I can edit and adopt another culture if you do not allow it. If I cannot contribute to the Traessa I am very intrigued by the Kodaka.
@Terrance888: I hope this is okay with you. If not, I'll edit or remove.

@Immaculate I somehow missed your post, thank you and welcome I've sown a bit of confusion regarding this turn - let me come up with a definite set of rules (hopefully posted later today). At first glance I don't see any problems with you branching from the Traessa as a new player.

 

[Daftpanzer]

RULES UPDATE - I've now added some actual stats to the second post of this thread (here).

Lineages - each new culture that branches from your original culture will be considered part of the same ‘lineage’ or culture family. Each lineage is ‘owned’ by one player, cultures can become part of multiple lineages due to intermarriage, and thus come under the influence of multiple players at once.

Each turn, you can potentially influence every culture in your lineage - giving them new technologies, new cultural traits, new physical traits (genetics), and you can guide their relations with other tribes, as well as nudge them to explore or conquer in a certain direction. Branching off with a new culture also remains an option.

But what are the limits here? Generally, the rule is the more you try to do at once, the weaker the outcome will be. If you focus on just one culture (as per the first few turns of the game) that will have the greatest effect - you can expect to have two new technologies/cultural traits, and one new genetic trait - or two genetic traits if branching off a new culture. You’ll also get greater power over their attitudes to other cultures/tribes, and in directing them to migrate / invade a certain area.

If influencing multiple cultures, don’t hope for more than one new technology/cultural trait per turn. Genetic change will be slower (may be too small to register in the stats straight away) and your guidance on diplomacy / migration should be quite vague, or it will get lost in confusion. Any new culture you try to branch off will also get less of a head start.

Where I share influence over a culture/tribe with another player, can I contradict that player’s orders? Yes absolutely - I will have various ways of working out the conflicts (which might result in tribal in-fighting, or something more peaceful). It may be that both orders happen in part, or neither happens exactly.

Can I branch off a new culture in another part of the world, completely separate to all my existing ones? Potentially yes, but I would like to limit this as things could rapidly get out of hand. I may ask you to forfeit your existing lineage in order to do this (making them NPC).

 

[Daftpanzer]

I hope the above makes sense,

@Immaculate, I realised I actually need you to decide - if 'taking over' the Traessa, I need to limit you to one new physical trait, also I will allow Terrance888 to veto you taking over, as they are his creation originally (I'll ask him in Discord) EDIT: Terrance is cool with it!. The other option is to branch from the Traessa with a new culture - they will try to find a space for themselves on the map, starting with a portion of the Traessa population, but will get the two physical traits. For the latter option I would need a new culture name as well.

@Jehoshua, I've scrapped the 'bonus point' idea, however I think the orders you posted are still fine for me, if the exploration westward counts as the general migration focus.

 

[Angst]

IMO: At some point we really have to restrict lineages somewhat for the sake of your sanity though. Crosspollination here is already incredibly complicated. I know how much work it is to decipher the interwoven wishes of 10 "independent" player-controlled states, I cannot fathom how complicated things are already, if not a few turns from here.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

What physical characteristic are you adding? (if any)
The ability to digest lactose spreads amongst the population, as the Ashala grow closer and closer to the vast herds of cattle that roam.

What two new specialisations does your tribe develop?
In the west, the domestication of the horse (which spreads eastwards incredibly quickly) allows for the Ashala to properly move and track the herds of domesticated cattle, and to follow, and herd, them from grazing ground to grazing ground. Additionally, this allows them to actively maintain a robust network of trade and communication, tying the Ashala from one end to the other into a relatively cohesive whole (though, of course, vast differences DO exist from clan to clan.)
Additionally, the existence of domesticated cattle provides a consistent source of leather, which have allowed the Ashala to create more and more elaborate mobile "tents" (think yurts) to protect themselves from the cold. These tents are designed to be able to be taken down and moved regularly, to follow the herds of cattle and camel. Many of these tents, also, are decorated with patterns of spirals and dots, emulating, in many respects, the patterns of the stone gardens, using paint and dyes to request intercession from the divine.

How aggressive/adventurous or cautious is your tribe?
The Ashala have grown adventurous, pushing the boundaries of the known.

What are your relations with other tribes?
The Ashala trade and raid neighboring groups as they see fit. Some are weak, some are strong, and how we interact with them depends on that. The only exception are the snow-men, who have taken a position of reverance amongst the Ashala. It is believed that they are the wisest of the wise, a foot in the spirit and a foot in the living. As such, though some tribe have Human shamans, most at least maintain a relationship with a local Snow-man elder or clan.

Will your people migrate, or remain where they are?
The Ashala spread, their population density growing ever more dense, their domesticated horses allowing for a relatively smooth and efficient transfer of knowledge and goods from one ends of the disunited tribes to the other.

 

[theDright]

Tribe Name: Ashutur

Branching from intermingling of Utur and Ashala

What colour represents your tribe? Something that hasn't been used.

What two variations in physical characteristics* set your tribe apart?

If they can interbreed, they just might, there are certainly some mystic aspects of the Ashala relationship with the Utur. I expect a family band of Utur might bond with a clan of Ashala, even if such biological intermingling is impossible.

Otherwise and anyhow, the closeness of the Ashala to the Utur leads to slow domestication of not just the Utur to the Ashala, but the Ashala to the Utur. Utur that breed more slowly than others die off with fewer children, increasing the birth rate slightly. Slow Utur breeding results in more in-depth enculturation of Utur children. Utur that are more likely to cooperate with the Ashala find food and shelter. The Ashala, meanwhile, depend upon the Utur's mystic connection to the land, as well as their great strength, stamina, and all-weather capabilities to extend their abilities to find food and maintain their herds even in the harshest of weather. Utur that don't display these qualities are pushed further and further afield, just out of desire to avoid the Ashala.

What two specialisations does your tribe have? An interest in taming animals, of some Utur to the Ashala, and definitely vice versa. The cultural and religious aspect is extended to extend respect to all those creatures that can be called 'men', while acknowledging differing strengths.

How aggressive or cautious is your tribe? The Ashutur will probably be welcoming to Ashala neighbors, who see them as a culture with an closer bond with the Ashala, but will probably steer a cautious path towards their other neighbors, and neighboring tribes that do not respect both human and Utur alike will be met with disdain, and those that kill the Utur especially will be met with great hostility.

Will your people migrate, or remain where they are? The Ashutur will probably remain where they are, but if driven out, they will travel together to insure all are kept safe.

 

[Kyzarc Fotjage]

New Specializations: Tailoring, Pantheistic
With their shift from a migratory lifestyle to a largely sedentary one in the relative plenty of the Ahsha'dash'shadb (Lit. Place to be Sought), especially in contrast to the years of the migration, the Ashut'shadb have had the opportunity to turn their skilled fingers from the strictly utilitarian necessities of survival to more fanciful practices, most notably elaborate decorations sown into their clothing.
There is also the development of an established pantheon, grown out of the mystical traditions of the Ashala but tempered with the years of migration and hardship. This pantheon is for the most part deeply antagonistic, with the gods being depicted as vindictive and spiteful to the Ashut'shadb. There are a few friendly spirits, namely those of the dog (who sacrificed herself to keep the Ashut'shadb alive in their crossing), the tern (who guided the Ashut'shadb south to the Ahsha'dash'shadb), the mouse (whose ability to survive despite being eaten by most of the other animals is to be emulated), and the earth goddess (who lives in Ahsha'dash'shadb and who protects them). Toolmakers are viewed with reverence, as they're taking the corpse of a spirit (or gift of the earth goddess) and turning it to something useful. A broken tool is viewed as the spirit's vindictiveness showing through, with more durable, well-made tools obviously being proof of the crafter's ability to suppress the spirit's will. Stone tools are superior to bone because of earth goddess's benevolence making them more willing to help. Leathers have to be tanned before use to drive out as much of the spirit's evil will as possible.

New Physical Trait: Long Fingers
Their Ashut'ar heritage and the brutal journey across the ice sheets have caused the Ashut'shadb value toolmaking above all. The tribespeople held in most esteem by the tribe, and have the most children, are those who can produce the finest tools, especially clothing. Over the generations this weakly selects for greater manual dexterity and longer, more delicate fingers.

Diplomatic Stance: Their Ashut'ar cousins are viewed with suspicion, being somewhat physically larger and more numerous, but are tolerated as being ultimately of the same lineage. Anyone else, especially people who're spiritually inclined, is viewed with deep suspicion and even hatred.

Expand South: While many of the Ashut'shadb believe they've found the true Ahsha'dash'shadb, there are still some who believe that it is further onwards. As such small bands of the Ashut'shadb keep pushing south and east even as the main body has settled down.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Tribe Name: Ashutur

Branching from intermingling of Utur and Ashala

What colour represents your tribe? Something that hasn't been used.

What two variations in physical characteristics* set your tribe apart?

If they can interbreed, they just might, there are certainly some mystic aspects of the Ashala relationship with the Utur. I expect a family band of Utur might bond with a clan of Ashala, even if such biological intermingling is impossible.

Otherwise and anyhow, the closeness of the Ashala to the Utur leads to slow domestication of not just the Utur to the Ashala, but the Ashala to the Utur. Utur that breed more slowly than others die off with fewer children, increasing the birth rate slightly. Slow Utur breeding results in more in-depth enculturation of Utur children. Utur that are more likely to cooperate with the Ashala find food and shelter. The Ashala, meanwhile, depend upon the Utur's mystic connection to the land, as well as their great strength, stamina, and all-weather capabilities to extend their abilities to find food and maintain their herds even in the harshest of weather. Utur that don't display these qualities are pushed further and further afield, just out of desire to avoid the Ashala.

What two specialisations does your tribe have? An interest in taming animals, of some Utur to the Ashala, and definitely vice versa. The cultural and religious aspect is extended to extend respect to all those creatures that can be called 'men', while acknowledging differing strengths.

How aggressive or cautious is your tribe? The Ashutur will probably be welcoming to Ashala neighbors, who see them as a culture with an closer bond with the Ashala, but will probably steer a cautious path towards their other neighbors, and neighboring tribes that do not respect both human and Utur alike will be met with disdain, and those that kill the Utur especially will be met with great hostility.

Will your people migrate, or remain where they are? The Ashutur will probably remain where they are, but if driven out, they will travel together to insure all are kept safe.

I imagine this is in the far north of the Ashala range.

Also, so you are aware, Homo-Sapiens and Utur cannot breed. I asked about it a couple turns ago.

 

[theDright]

Well, it's definitely where the Utur are going to be in contact with them the most, and where a closer relationship will bring the most advantages.

I didn't know that, but it is as might be expected.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Ashala Creation Myth


Once upon a time, the whole world was ice, and nothing moved, not even time. There was no change, nothing grew, or died. Everything that could be was frozen beneath the ice, a world of potentiality.

Meanwhile, above the still world the sky, a great spirit, the greatest spirit, in fact, moved in, free-wheeling spirals, everchanging, fickle and inconsistent. Eventually, in a fit of pique, or curiosity, the Sky reached down to the still world, intent on changing it, making it part of itself, bringing it into the unformed chaos.

For just a moment, an unstoppable force touched an immovable object, and everything stood still. For a second, all was available to the sky, and it understood and knew everything. And, the sky realized it’s mistake, and tried to pull away, but it was too late.

In one horrible instant, the sky ripped itself apart as it’s very nature tried to restart it’s motion - and couldn't, not really. The greatest tear, we know as the milky way, but every star is a small rupture in the very being of the sky.

But, the friction of the sky against the frozen-earth changed the earth as well. Like a branch spinning against a log to start a fire, the parts of the earth where the sky had touched it started to melt. Slowly the ice receded, revealing all that had been frozen within. The plants emerged, and the animals, and the rivers and oceans and mountains, and the sun, and the moon, and the people.

The very substance of the sky dripped into the world, the blood that was chaos, giving life to all the things that the melting ice had revealed, all the while draining the sky of it’s chaotic life.

As that happened, the impact of the world and the sky coming together echoed across time, backwards and forwards, a reflection of the world that was just slightly offset from that of the living. This became the spirit world, and it’s denizens are formed of world-meltwater and sky-blood, and are a reflection of the things in the living world, though, like their world, they exist both before and after what they reflect. Though it is difficult for them to directly cross over, they can interact with the world of the living through their reflection, and mortals cross over to their world when dreaming (and some mortals - and the snowmen) have learned to communicate with them while awake.

The greatest of these spirits is the Ash-Bear, who, some say, was the first spirit, created by the Sky itself in the moment it stood still and knew everything. The Ash-Bear is what brought thought to the world, wandering the world, slowly losing more and more of it’s form as more and more of the life around it developed thoughts and designs of their own, until, finally, it was gone and the living creatures with the most thought, humanity and Utur were awakened.




All cultures that descend from the Ashala likely have a creation myth that has many of these same themes.

 

[LordArgon]

Kodaka

Physical

Increased Facial Hair for Men

What two new specializations does your tribe develop?
1. Fur Clothes
2. Map Making

How aggressive/adventurous or cautious is your tribe?
Increasingly adventurous. They begin looking for uncharted shores.

What are your relations with other tribes?
While willing to trade for new things, the Kodaka do not seek out company beyond those they view as family.

Will your people migrate, or remain where they are?
They will begin expanding to the eastern islands at the edge of the map.

 

[Jehoshua]

orders amended in previous post [focussing on the Vaheomo].

-

Tale of Jaero the Explorer

-

The Satinka sat upon her mat as the children of the blessed Amanaki tribe, of the great Vahaeara nation, children of Manu, beloved of Vahu the all-father and all-wise gathered before her and the fire in the speaking-hut of the village.

"Tell us a story, wise one"

they clamoured.

"The story of Jaero!"

She smiled and spake, leaning it seemed over the flames as shadows flickered on the wall. Her glowing eyes sparkling in the dim lit hut.

-

Lo a vision laid itself on Jaero, son of the Vaheomo on the farthest isle. It was a vision of far Asuradan of the manifold beasts and broad plains across the far reaches of life-bestowing Amasido, the all wise deity who hears all through the manifold waters. And Manae, the east wind which lieth over the land from far Menektel did speak in his ear saying "Look Jaero, and knoweth that this land that thou see with thine own eyes, Vahu the all knowing and all wise, has ordained for thy people and for all the children of Manu the sky-father, who is slain".

Being drawn back from the touch of gods he did turn unto his brother Topanahu saying "West, we must go, indeed west unto Asuradan, so it is has been foretold, so it shall be in obedience to the Tana". For he did know that Jovar of the long winter lay his cloak upon the land, and that the demons of Aitah the murderer of our father did ever seek to strike the children of Manu and cut down their herds and their children, even children such as yourselves who have yet to bring back the hairy head of an Odon-devil!

But Jaero and his brother. Taking up their boats therefore, and bearing harpoons of carved bone and swords of bone did sail unto the sunset realm and across the far reaches of Amasido and the shining surface of the sea, as the deep-children sang for their voyage and led the way. The Dread Tempest the goddess Umana however, most fearsome of Manu's daughters and wife of Amasido did attempt to cast them down into the deeps where no man of Manu can dwell, for she ever resents the favour her husband shows the children of Manu who is dead over their own children, the rains and snows. Yet Amasido who guided us hence to Vahayemano when the demons cast us from Vahuano did guide their way as surely as holy Kweitkel points north, for in the reflection of the star-deities upon the deep did Topanahu learn to look up unto the heavens to find his bearing, being the first to learn the secrets of the stars, of bright Alatai, and red Ruska and the great north star which is always fixed as the tentpole of the sky.

And Jaero following Topanahu the wayfarers direction took up his cloak and fixed it upon a stake hewn from the old forests and blessed by the Sahuga of his tribe. In it he did catch Manae in his embrace and the tempest wind also and directed them forward, west, always west as the winds bore him away from the storm and the sky-fire that was thrown down in anger at his voyage by the angry goddess who flailed in rage upon the coming sunrise. Thus onward unto the fabled land of Asuradan the blessed, land appointed by the gods for the Vahae of lost Fahasano, and the profaned Vahuano where demons dwell did he sail as birds wheeled over head and the roaring waves lay down under the sea of stars and becalm calm and still like a sheet of ice.

-

"And what happened next!"

Little Tamakai asked, a rascal amongst the children that he was.

And the old women laughed and brought a reed with burning herbs into her mouth as she inhaled deeply and blew rings of smoke from her mouth.

"who's to say, perhaps if you get this old Satinka a nice fat salmon she will tell you"

And the boy went running to the smoking hut, for the story was not yet at its end.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Susagh’am Creation Myth

First, the physical world was as a still sculpture. All things existed in it motionless, unchanging. It had space and substance, but time was without meaning, as an infinite eternity

The world of thought existed, a place where space had no meaning, a place of infinite thought, power, transformation and potential.

A spirit/s called the opener (Uredahom), neither singular nor plural, bridged the gap between the two, and both were transformed forever. With the first animation of the physical world, the winds began to blow, the ice began to melt and freeze, the stone of the earth began to crumble and solidify. Meanwhile, the spirit world found itself stretching into the shape of the physical world. Spirits became distinct as space and time gained meaning.

As the world began to move, many spirits reached across the cosmic bridge, which remains faintly visible in the darkest nights, to shape their bits of earth. Key among these spirits was/were the animator/s (Izigahom), neither singular nor plural, which gave pattern and reason to all manner of small forms which had existed since the long silence.

A world now existed where the lights of the sky moved according to their own patterns, the mountains and oceans grew and shrank, the rivers flowed and forests sprouted, and animals ate and reproduced.

Into this world came the awakener/s (Hazahom), neither singular nor plural. The awakener brought spirits who did not merely animate, but experienced, and had awareness of both the physical and spirit worlds. The awakener wandered the earth, bringing wakefulness to many beasts, plants, places and thoughts (previously, wandering thoughts and concepts had existed without self-awareness, which is not at all an odd concept, and some still lack self-awareness today).

The awakener/s brought about this, the fourth world. Gone are the quiet world, the moving world, and the sleeping world, we now live in the waking world.


Philologist's Note: Ashala mythology is clearly cognate with Susagh'am mythology (likely also true with the mythology of the Ashut'ar, Rashana, and Ashut'shadb). This is due in part to the common ancestry of these peoples from the ancient Akut, and to relatively frequent east-west contact. For instance, Ashala (Ash-Bear), their eponymous patron spirit and spiritual father of the Ashala, is clearly both thematically and linguistically cognate with Hazhahom (Awakener/Awakeners).

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Changes to Susagh'am Language

In the many generations that followed the migration of Ashut'ar (Akut People) into the east, and the formation of the Susagh'am (Fish River People), the language of these easterners continued to evolve. The Susagh'am became most prominent between two great rivers, living in a broadly diamond-shaped region surrounded by natural borders: jungles to the southwest, ocean to the southeast, subarctic steppe to the northeast and glacial walls to the northwest.

In this state, contact remained with the Ashala, passing through a narrow but much-traveled route on the upper Fusogh River. However, the general reduction in east-west movement, coupled with their own burgeoning populations, contributed to the further differentiation of the Susagh'am, as they tended to interact primarily with themselves.

Through this period, there were several broad trends in the pronunciation of vowels and consonants that altered their language, noted as follows:

Tendency of long 'u' (oo) to become pronounced as 'iu' (yoo) (Uutran becomes Iutran)

Glottal stops tend to absorb unstressed consonants (Ho'nwa'i becomes Ho'wa'i)

Voicing of stressed voiceless consonants and vice versa (Fushad becomes Viushat)

Reduction of terminal nasal sounds (n, m) when in contact with more dominant consonants (Sintorn becomes Sitor')

Softening of the voiced velar fricative 'gh' to 'h' or 'w' (Oghan becomes Owhan)

Examples in Placenames:

At'wa'i > At'oa'i
Hi'ntor > Hi'tor
Fushad > Viushat
Ho'nwa'i > Ho'wa'i
Susagh'am > Sius'am
Hu'benagh > Hiu'penaw
Uutran > Iutran/U'utra'an
At'ingha > At'inkha
Fusogh > Viusoh
Sintorn > Sitor'
Ifa'ingha > Iva'inkha
Oghan > Owhan

Examples in Distant Lands:

Ashataso > Ashadazo
Atagh > Atah
Ashutagh > Ash'dah
Hanogh > Hanoh

Ultimately, by the end of this period, the Susagh'am typically referred to themselves as Sius'am. The importation of various loanwords from neighbouring cultures and the vagaries of linguistic drift left the dialects in the peripheries very distinct from one another, although the gradient in change meant that every tribe could communicate clearly with their neighbours. The Ashar'am (Ashut'ar) to the north spoke a cousin language that, while unintelligible, was not difficult to learn, while the Hazhaham (Ashala) speak a much more distantly removed language, known mostly to people from the Godah and U'utra'an regions at the western periphery of the land of Siusah.

 

[Daftpanzer]

I want to say a big thanks for the latest round of stories and input! (I still need to work out a way of incorporating place-names into the map)

If people could send orders for Sunday, I'll be able to start updating then. Thanks for the early orders, as that allows me to get a head start.

Tribe Name: Ashutur

Branching from intermingling of Utur and Ashala

@theDright, I'm sorry for being out of touch - it's an interesting idea ('co-domestication') and I have no objection in principle. However, it's already established humans and the 'snow men' cannot interbreed, and I'm going to stick with that...

 

[theDright]

@theDright, I'm sorry for being out of touch - it's an interesting idea ('co-domestication') and I have no objection in principle. However, it's already established humans and the 'snow men' cannot interbreed, and I'm going to stick with that...[/QUOTE]

So, is my posted submission valid then? If you think that co-domestication is interesting, I think it works no matter if interbreeding occurs or not. I think I missed the human and snowman interbreeding attempts before that Thomas mentioned.

I think the idea that human domestication of other animals has all the psychological effects of the domestication occurs to the non-human is an error. You also have to think that the humans who couldn't handle dogs and ravens, for example, tended to lose out. I think that something similar could happen with the snowmen, given that they are more intelligent. They just need to sort out their appropriate niches, but it wouldn't be nearly a trainer-trained or a direct social relationship, but something in between.

 

[Daftpanzer]

So, is my posted submission valid then? If you think that co-domestication is interesting, I think it works no matter if interbreeding occurs or not. I think I missed the human and snowman interbreeding attempts before that Thomas mentioned.

I think the idea that human domestication of other animals has all the psychological effects of the domestication occurs to the non-human is an error. You also have to think that the humans who couldn't handle dogs and ravens, for example, tended to lose out. I think that something similar could happen with the snowmen, given that they are more intelligent. They just need to sort out their appropriate niches, but it wouldn't be nearly a trainer-trained or a direct social relationship, but something in between.

@theDright yes sorry to me more clear - I'm happy to go with your idea although, to branch from the Ashala means its going to be limited to a small area at the north of their range.

I know there is an argument to say that humans have been domesticating themselves at the same time as domesticating animals, it does make sense to me that a 'mutualistic' relationship like this could evolve under the pressures of a harsh environment.

I meant to ask, could we possibly get a different name as well? Or perhaps it could be written Ash-Utur? Just to differentiate from the Ashut'ar and Ashala for the sanity of our other players (and myself)