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[RD] Daily Graphs and Charts

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Nearly every 3rd person in Germany is supposed to own a weapon? I might check that later, seems way to high to me (even if soldiers, police and hunters are included).
Can't find the statistic on the website that is sourced, but I've only ever seen such numbers in articles that talk about the twenty-something million illegal hand weapons that are supposed to be somewhere in Germany, without ever giving much evidence for them.

Officially, there are roughly 2.5 million people who are allowed to own the roughly 6 million legal hand weapons that are around - emphasis is on being allowed to OWN those weapons, as that does not mean that you're allowed to actually carry them - if I understand German law correctly, then to carry an actual hand weapon, you need the Waffenschein, of which there are a total of roughly ~20.000, with only 600 of those owned by private citizens. And while there certainly are some amount of illegal weapons in Germany, they're not likely to be carried around by private citizens. So the police really doesn't have much reason to expect to be attacked with a handgun if they're just dealing with normal citizens, and not gangs or something like that.

My guess is of those 1146 killings, ~1130 of them are justified because the perp is aiming a weapon or shooting back.
According to the FBI, there were roughly ~400 justified killings by police officers in the last few years.

Note though that all of these statistics include ALL killings, not just killings with hand weapons; even including unintentional ones, such as car accidents. And even from those statistics they chose the biggest number that is around. Quite deceptive to couple that statistic with gun ownership, but I don't find it surprising that US cops - and the USA in general - would top the charts.

It's just not a stable country.
 
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Don't forget that in the U.S. there is a war on drugs going on, and since everybody's armed, cops are really really paranoid when pulling people over for instance, and people with drugs on them are really really paranoid about going to jail for a long time. So everyone's armed, paranoid, and trigger happy.

Compare this to Japan, where nobody's armed, and no war on drugs going on, so when cops pull somebody over everybody's calm.

Our rates here in Canada are much too high for our own liking, but what's going on in the U.S. is scary
 
What should be noted is that France Germany and Canada have more or less the same level of gun ownership.
The figures are for all guns: hand guns, rifles, shot guns and some other weapons.
I am sure that there are many people who own rifles and shotguns in Germany.
What is surprising is the killings by the police in Canada is about seven times the rate in Germany.
Hand gun ownership could be higher in Canada.
Also most of the Canadian population is next to the US so the Canadian police could be reacting to US criminals
 
What should be noted is that France Germany and Canada have more or less the same level of gun ownership.
The figures are for all guns: hand guns, rifles, shot guns and some other weapons.
I am sure that there are many people who own rifles and shotguns in Germany.
What is surprising is the killings by the police in Canada is about seven times the rate in Germany.
Hand gun ownership could be higher in Canada.
Also most of the Canadian population is next to the US so the Canadian police could be reacting to US criminals


Canada has handgun regulations far stricter than the US.
 
Careful. That chart is "guns per person" as a mean, not literally how many people own a gun. In the US, for instance, only about a third of people own a gun, but because some people own private arsenals, the mean is skewed. I wouldn't be surprised if it's similar in those other countries. Steven Paddock had two-dozen guns just in the hotel room with him, and even more at his home.

I still wouldn't estimate that these could be that many weapons.
Our neighbour, a hunter, has like 5, and that is the only one I know with a legal weapon.

Can't find the statistic on the website that is sourced, but I've only ever seen such numbers in articles that talk about the twenty-something million illegal hand weapons that are supposed to be somewhere in Germany, without ever giving much evidence for them.

Officially, there are roughly 2.5 million people who are allowed to own the roughly 6 million legal hand weapons that are around - emphasis is on being allowed to OWN those weapons, as that does not mean that you're allowed to actually carry them - if I understand German law correctly, then to carry an actual hand weapon, you need the Waffenschein, of which there are a total of roughly ~20.000, with only 600 of those owned by private citizens. And while there certainly are some amount of illegal weapons in Germany, they're not likely to be carried around by private citizens. So the police really doesn't have much reason to expect to be attacked with a handgun if they're just dealing with normal citizens, and not gangs or something like that.

I've also found the 20 million illegal (German link http://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de...ine-waffen.976.de.html?dram:article_id=346481 ; still haven't figured out how to use links properly under xenforo...), but I don't believe that either. These criminal organizations must then have for each of their mobsters their own private military bunker. The 1/3rd is from one of the statistics in the graphic, at least also according to statista.de , but no time to check the credibility of that one.
Your numbers for the Waffenschein (permit to own weapons) again seem to be a bit low, because hunters also need one, and I'd estimate that these are more than that (but just a gut feeling). EDIT: Apparently we have roughly 400k hunters.
EDIT2: Permit to carry a weapon (in public) seems to be correct with that low number. The permit to own a weapon (for special usages like hunting or shooting sports) must be higher.

Maybe these numbers include private militaria collections, which normally contain non-functional weapons, mmmhh.

You're right for the last 2 sentences for sure.

EDIT: There might be some confusion with the counting to.
You e.g. need a weapon owning permit for the usage of crossbows, which might therefore fall into this statistic (although I don't think that's a considerable amount).
Normal bows would not fall into it (some semantics there; bows don't have a barrel, a crossbow has, therefore it's a firearm, something like that), but maybe they're counted?

Found again the number of 20 million illegal weapons, together with 10 million legal weapons, which require a permint, plus 15 million, which do not require a permit https://www.welt.de/politik/article96595/Schusswaffen-in-Deutschland-Fragen-und-Antworten.html . With these numbers, I seriously doubt what is counted.
The link is a bit older. At that time, things like pepper spray would have been counted as weapon which does not require a permit, I think.
 
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Does that include traffic accidents? I would imagine most policemen killed on the job die in wrecks. How about on-the-job heart attacks? The Officer Down Memorial Page (an otherwise useful site to cite) counts all sorts of silly things to run up the count.
 
What should be noted is that France Germany and Canada have more or less the same level of gun ownership.
The figures are for all guns: hand guns, rifles, shot guns and some other weapons.
I am sure that there are many people who own rifles and shotguns in Germany.
What is surprising is the killings by the police in Canada is about seven times the rate in Germany.
Hand gun ownership could be higher in Canada.
Also most of the Canadian population is next to the US so the Canadian police could be reacting to US criminals

Also
Perhaps the Canadian police force gets a longer (and better ?) education/training than US but less than Germany/France.
Perhaps the Canadian police officers see more US news and more US TV series where killings are much more frequent than police officers in Germany/France.
 
Hm, that is pretty high, no?
It could account a bit for the clearly disastrous trigger-happy attitude of Us policemen.

It's a country of 320million people. Cops have actually among the lowest fatalities on the job of any industry. And, as was pointed out, most of those deaths are accidental, and not the result of armed crashes.
 
^It is still very high, so stats on how many of those deaths were violent would be poignant :)

Moreover, the actual number of police forces would be the crucial number, not that of the overall citizen population.
 
^It is still very high, so stats on how many of those deaths were violent would be poignant :)

Moreover, the actual number of police forces would be the crucial number, not that of the overall citizen population.


120,000 federal police. 765,000 full time, and 44,000 part time state and local police. So out of some 900,000, 124 died in a year, mostly accidentally. That's one of the safest jobs in the country.
 
120,000 federal police. 765,000 full time, and 44,000 part time state and local police. So out of some 900,000, 124 died in a year, mostly accidentally. That's one of the safest jobs in the country.
Then the US has a general occupational safety problem:



Having in mind that there are almost ten times more police officers in USA than in UK, police mortality is TEN times higher in USA.

https://psmag.com/news/cops-killing-and-being-killed
 
It's a country of 320million people.
1150 out of 320 million (population killed by cops) is ~0,00036%
Cops have actually among the lowest fatalities on the job of any industry.
Of any industry? Compared to construction or logging sure, but compared to financial services?
And, as was pointed out, most of those deaths are accidental, and not the result of armed crashes.
http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/r...d-of-Year-Officer-Fatalities-Report_FINAL.pdf
From this page we see that in 2017, 128 died on job, including 44 shot, 7 beaten to death and 1 stabbed.
52 out of 900 000 (cops killed by population) is ~0,058 %.
Having in mind that there are almost ten times more police officers in USA than in UK, police mortality is TEN times higher in USA.
I imagined something like this.
 
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