Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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J. pride said:
Vikings just cause problem for the rest of the civs
Click to expand...

Well, uhm, isn't that quite much what happened historically? As to the rest of your post... the Kalmar Union was lead by danish Monarchs, and ended when the Swedes grew tired of that, and rebelled, so using the start of the Kalmar Union as spawn point for the Swedes doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

I consider the current way of implementing the Vikings/Scandinavians as, well, as good as it's gets. RFC:E has space and time to make the division between DK/Norway and Sweden represented, but in a game like this, that's not really doable, and about having Sweden being all of Scandinavia, I really don't see the point of it either - it's not historical at all, and I don't know what it should achieve. Sweden never controlled Denmark and only controlled Norway for about 100 years, and ... oh, I don't even know where to start and end. In my opinion it's fine as it is. They should maybe be a bit more like the Mongols - strong in the start, but prone to collapse, or weakening later on - but I really don't see what's wrong with the current representation, in its basics. You're right that it wasn't a united empire for that much of the timeframe, but ... the act of union in Britain united England and Scotland only in 1707, and Ireland in 1801 - the Khmer represents I don't know how many different civs - the Mali too covers a lot of different folks - etc. etc.
Scandinavia is for sure just as homogenous a civilization than the rest of the civs, probably one of the most actually, even if we only were politically united for 126 years.

Oh and the Viking age is considered to end with the Norman conquest of England, in 1066, so letting all of Scandinavia be barbarians up untill an arbitrary spawn of Sweden centuries later, that's... I don't approve :crazyeye:

Long ramble, but long story short: both for gameplay-reasons and for not torturing history TOO much, let's please keep it as it is :)
 
Vikings just cause problem for the rest of the civs
Click to expand...
By that I meant them having ahistorical cities. Im perfectlky fince with them raiding other civs. I have noticed alot of times Germans do not settle Berlin becuz of the overwhelming culture of the vikings.

In any case as u said, we can make it more likely for Vikings to collapse and if they do what about considering a Swedish respawn (excluding Denmark) just like the Italians.
 
J. pride said:
By that I meant them having ahistorical cities. Im perfectlky fince with them raiding other civs. I have noticed alot of times Germans do not settle Berlin becuz of the overwhelming culture of the vikings.

In any case as u said, we can make it more likely for Vikings to collapse and if they do what about considering a Swedish respawn (excluding Denmark) just like the Italians.
Click to expand...

I really don't follow. Look at this map for a second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Viking_Expansion.svg - can you honestly tell me that the Vikings in your games tends to do better than this? How often do you see them controlling half of the British Isles - and having England as vassals - Normandy, Sicily, the Baltic Sea coast, and, well, in short; doing what they did historically? If anything, the Vikings need a boost, not a nerf. And I'm still waiting to hear you come up with a convincing argument for having Sweden representing all of Scandinavia.
 
That is not the map of a single kingdom or empire but rather many different Viking Kingdoms. In a game where the Romans, Greek, Persians, Arabs and Mongols never even come close to reaching their historical holding why should a bunch of the many kingdoms of Vikings get a boost (when they werent even united).

I dont see a problem with Sweden representing all of Scandanavia, Why becuz:
Khmer: represents all of South East Asia
Mali: represents all of West Africa
Arabia: represents all of Middle eAst and North africa (in 600 ad)
All of these regions are bigger than Scandanavia and they only get one civ.
 
J. pride said:
That is not the map of a single kingdom or empire but rather many different Viking Kingdoms. In a game where the Romans, Greek, Persians, Arabs and Mongols never even come close to reaching their historical holding why should a bunch of the many kingdoms of Vikings get a boost (when they werent even united).

I dont see a problem with Sweden representing all of Scandanavia, Why becuz:
Khmer: represents all of South East Asia
Mali: represents all of West Africa
Arabia: represents all of Middle eAst and North africa (in 600 ad)
All of these regions are bigger than Scandanavia and they only get one civ.
Click to expand...

So because other civs tend to not reach what they did in history, we should stop trying to simulate history, as we can't do it well enough anyway?? :confused: Your logic escapes me.

Yes, we are agreeing on having one civ representing all of Scandinavia, this is exactly what I wrote in my previous post. What I don't understand is why you want to change what is now a fine simulation of history, to a completely ahistorical focus on Sweden, who didn't rise to power untill the 16/17th century, and before that even was ruled by a danish monarch during the Kalmar Union years, and for the rest of the time the three major scandinavian kingdoms was relatively equal. Once again: Sweden never controlled Denmark, and only controlled Norway for about 100 years, from the end of the Napoleon Wars to 1905. I have no idea why anyone would want to eliminate the rest of Scandinavia, and just have a Sweden.
 
I think the Vikings are fine overall, especially since the latest RFC patch where they actually started to go out attacking Europe. The only problem I see is that they tend to hold on to the subsequent conquests too long.

I'm fine with a Swedish respawn in case the Vikings have collapsed, but I see no point in entirely replacing them.
 
Why not just having the Swedes and Vikings (Later Norway & Denmark).
I think the bigger problem is that ever since Leoreth moved the fish, the Vikings never settle Denmark, which is really sad in my opinion, and is usually now settled by the Dutch and rarely the Germans. And I personally, would love to see viking barb raids on settlements in Spain, France, Southern England and in the Mediterranean, like they have in RFC Europe, I think that would be pretty cool to see, and it would have that extra challenge added as well.

Also, England needs to respawn in 1066, so it can expel the Vikings, that tend to collapse the young England from its inception. Overall though, I would move the English and Spanish spawn, as they really do annoy me.
 
I like the Vikings too, if anything they should be more aggressive through their peak. The addition of a Sweden respawn could be interesting but I would want to see how the whole Prussian split goes first before cluttering up that region more. Russia definitely needs more adversaries then just the Germans.
 
Ok so I downloaded the new patch. Or should I say I deleted my old files and replaced then with the update version. I, like many others, had some problems. Almost every time I load a 600 ad scenario it crashes before the dawn of man screen. I can load a 3000bc start and play a 600ad scenario.... that's works...it takes awhile....but it works... I tried to load a 3000 bc scenario, ie the romans, but it crashes every time on about my 3rd to 5th turn.

I miss my older version
 
You shouldn't expect savegames to work with a new version.

I've still to fix the problems with the Roman UP, so I can only apologize for any crashes in the meantime.
 
I've been having a lot of crashing problems as well, namely my game crashes every time around the Saffavid re spawn of the Persians. Any ideas?
 
It's just as difficult to track as the Roman UP issue. I tried different approaches and it seems I've reduced the probability of it occuring at least in Italy's rebirth, but it still occurs.
 
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