This I could even agree with. I think using the Oracle to go for Monarchy, CoL, Metal Casting or such things is okay, but I understand that oracling Machinery (typical Greek move) or Theology is a bit much.
Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
- Status
ramz711
Chieftain
I'm all for nerfing the Oracle as well. I'm as guilty as the next person of using it to jump ridiculously far ahead of the AI, and it's always seemed like a game-breaker to me.
AbsintheRed
Deity
Actually some others wonders have similarly powerful effects (or may even be more powerful for a few players) as the Oracle.
The reason this wonder feels mostly overpowered is because it gives that huge bonus - a huge slighshot to a very advanced free tech with the right strategy - instantly
Based on this, my another idea was:
Change the effect, that it reduces all ancient and classical age tech costs by 5%. Or whatever is best for balance in this mod.
Or it has an obsolete tech, and not preset rules that it works until the end of classical age
Education seems very fitting, as it's a priority if you don't want to fall back in research
The reason this wonder feels mostly overpowered is because it gives that huge bonus - a huge slighshot to a very advanced free tech with the right strategy - instantly
Based on this, my another idea was:
Change the effect, that it reduces all ancient and classical age tech costs by 5%. Or whatever is best for balance in this mod.
Or it has an obsolete tech, and not preset rules that it works until the end of classical age
Education seems very fitting, as it's a priority if you don't want to fall back in research
soul-breathing
Emperor
Leoreth,I have some idea about DoC,I think more modern nations can join in.
For example,when Spain enters Industrial era,its colonies in South America turn to a new civilization,Argentina;its colonies in North America also turn to a new civilization,Mexico(only if Aztec was destroyed).And also,it can also be used between Britain and Australia and Canada,Dutch and Indonesia,Portugal and Brazil,and so on.The starting technologies of new civilizations can be a little more advanced than the former civilizations.
These below is my specific plan:
1.Brazil
Leader:unsettled
UU:unsettled
UB:soccer stadium-(amphitheatre)
UP:The Power of Amazon:
Jungle=forest in Brazil
UHV:
1.Secure or get by trade 5 bananas and 5 sugars in 1900AD
2.Ensure there are no European colonies in Latin America in 1950AD
3.Build the Cristo Retentor and Olympic Park in Rio de Janeiro by 2000AD
Rating:
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★
GROWTH:★★★★★
STARTING SITUATON:★★
Spawn/Flip area:The coast of the Antlantic,from Recife to Port Alegre
2.Argentina
Leader:Evita Peron
UU:unsettled
UB:cinema-(theatre)
UP:The Power of Soccer:
Gain the resource of football event automatically in every city(can't be traded)
UHV:
1.Secure or get by trade 7 cows in 1900AD
2.Make Buenos Aires the most populous city in 2000AD
3.Make Buenos Aires the city with the highest culture in the world in 2000AD
Rating:
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★★
GROWTH:★★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★
Spawn/Flip area:The river basin of La Plata and the Pampas Steppe
TO BE CONTINUED...
My English is poor.Hope you understand my meaning.
For example,when Spain enters Industrial era,its colonies in South America turn to a new civilization,Argentina;its colonies in North America also turn to a new civilization,Mexico(only if Aztec was destroyed).And also,it can also be used between Britain and Australia and Canada,Dutch and Indonesia,Portugal and Brazil,and so on.The starting technologies of new civilizations can be a little more advanced than the former civilizations.
These below is my specific plan:
1.Brazil
Leader:unsettled
UU:unsettled
UB:soccer stadium-(amphitheatre)
UP:The Power of Amazon:
Jungle=forest in Brazil
UHV:
1.Secure or get by trade 5 bananas and 5 sugars in 1900AD
2.Ensure there are no European colonies in Latin America in 1950AD
3.Build the Cristo Retentor and Olympic Park in Rio de Janeiro by 2000AD
Rating:
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★
GROWTH:★★★★★
STARTING SITUATON:★★
Spawn/Flip area:The coast of the Antlantic,from Recife to Port Alegre
2.Argentina
Leader:Evita Peron
UU:unsettled
UB:cinema-(theatre)
UP:The Power of Soccer:
Gain the resource of football event automatically in every city(can't be traded)
UHV:
1.Secure or get by trade 7 cows in 1900AD
2.Make Buenos Aires the most populous city in 2000AD
3.Make Buenos Aires the city with the highest culture in the world in 2000AD
Rating:
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★★
GROWTH:★★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★
Spawn/Flip area:The river basin of La Plata and the Pampas Steppe
TO BE CONTINUED...
My English is poor.Hope you understand my meaning.
Yeah, me too, and I agree that it's almost an exploit (especially if you tech ahead in another tree branch to allow for very expensive techs for your age).
The easiest solution would be to change the "grants a free technology" effect so that it only allows techs that belong to the same era as that you're in (makes an Oracle abuse hard because you'd have to enter the MA before someone else builds it). This would affect Liberalism as well, but I don't see any negative side effects in that.
Yeah, that's true. I'd really like to keep its effect, though, because it's intuitively understandable and opens up many strategies compared to a numerical bonus. I think it's not overpowered at all if we limit its capabilities like described above.
To me, these colonial successor civs are a part of the Europe complex, and since my next project will be working on Europe, I've already had many similar ideas
Looks good, I even had the same UP in mind. A good LH that's available here is Dom Pedro. Not sure about UU and UB yet, but your UHV ideas would work well.
Evita Peron's not available as an LH, unfortunately, but her husband is. That UHV is very similar to what I had in mind again (although I had an industrial or commercial goal instead of culture, representing Argentina's comparative wealth in the 1930s).
You're perfectly understandable, and thanks for the suggestionsTO BE CONTINUED...
My English is poor.Hope you understand my meaning.
You can be fairly sure to see something like that at some point in the future.
Visard
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2009
- Messages
- 214
Have you decided Thais UP? Maybe it could have Khmers old power, and Khmers could have something like +50% when building wonders, coz they were really fanatic monument builders. Power of monsoon could also be made stronger that you could build improments on jungle.
ozqar
King
Leoreth, I know that you might not be giving your whole attention to the Americas yet, but I!ve been waiting for something like this for a long time so I really couldn't help myself and had to give you some ideas =D
I think that for the modern independent nations of the new world (ie, mexico, brazil, etc) you shouldn't make their spawn dependent on previous colonization. I understand that you may want to define some spawns as conditional, but I think that in low civ density areas (like the Americas) that's not the best option. Another cool idea would be to let the human player spawn only with the capital and have him/her conquer his way to full independence as the 1st UHV.
Regarding Mexico and Peru/Colombia, I wouldn't mind seeing the Aztecs "evolve" into Mexico, specially if they have lagged behind in tech/score or are unstable. Same could apply for the Incas.
About Brazil, I think that jungles should have a different effect for them, Brazil doesn't have that many cities IN the amazon forest and they have done a lot of deforestation to get agricultural and pastoral land. Actually, I'd even suggest an ecologically-related 3rd UHV for Brazil. Although I do like the three ones that soul-breathing suggested, apart from the limitation of building the wonders specifically in Rio, if most of the American countries are spawning by themselves, then UHV2 wouldn't be much of a challenge.
Regarding Argentina, here are some UHV suggestions:
UHV1: Export X number of food resources (cattle or cereals) by 1900, either for gold or for other non-food resources.
UHV2: Have the most industrialized economy in the world by 1950, or, alternatively, the highest GDP.
UHV3: (Haven't thought of this one yet...)
In any case, if there are any Brazilians or Argentinians reading this, I'd say they would be the best to point out what their countries' most important feats and challenges are.
Regarding Mexico (and as the Mexican I am) here's a suggestion:
Important notes:
- You should spawn a horse and an iron resource for them (The iron should either be immediately north of Mexico City or on the northeastern part, near the Gulf).
- The Americans should be aggressive, at least during the XIX century.
- Mexico should spawn with Catholicism as state religion and with a missionary.
- At least one of the mountain tiles in the Pacific coast should be turned to hills.
- The Aztecs' and Mayan's last UHVs should be moved earlier so that they can be achieved before Mexico's spawn.
Spawn date: 1810 (declaration of independence).
Spawn/Flip area: All of modern Mexico, southwestern USA (Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, western Colorado) and Central America down to Costa Rica (not Panama). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Mexican_Empire)
Unstable areas: Texas (but not the other US States I mentioned) and Central America from (Guatemala to Costa Rica).
LH: Hidalgo (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8014) or Juarez (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14218).
UU: A modified Rifleman or some late 1800's unit. You could call them "Revolucionario", "Insurgente" or something of the like, I can't think of other names.
UB: A Lienzo Charro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lienzo_charro), that could replace either the theatre or the stadium, is the only building I can think of so far. It should require horse or at least some other animal resource. The building should give a stability bonus, in addition to the culture bonus it normally gives.
UP: (Name?) - Cities with Catholicism get a special bonus (culture? production?) even if there is no state religion.
UHV1: Make Mexico City the largest and most cultured city in the world by 1970.
UHV2: Establish an embassy with every other civ and achieve a friendly/polite attitude from at least 70% (or X%) of world leaders by 2000.
UHV3: Maintain territorial integrity, either until 2000 or, preferably, until the last turn. This means not losing any cities, wherever they are, because of conquests or instability AND not allowing any foreign cities in the spawn area (ie: settle the area if it hadn't been settled).
Here's a justification for my proposals:
- The first UHV is quite straightforward, Mexico City is one of the largest cities of the world and, on some counts, the largest one for a long time in the late XXth Century. The cultural part represents the country's cultural diversity and artistic history.
- The 2nd UHV stems from the country's long history of peaceful diplomacy and non-intervention policy. During the XXth Century, Mexico's foreign policy has been to accept sovereignty of all other states (dictatorships included), to not doing any military interventions and to grant asylum to any refugees that ask for it. Also, Mexico has more free trade agreements than any other country. The UP should help with this goal, as having no state religion could be a way to improve relations, yet as Mexico starts with Catholicism the anarchy should make it a challenge for the 3rd UHV. This anarchy perfectly represents the Reform Wars of the XIXth Century, so it's all historical =). The embassy/attitude UHV is, IMO, a good way to represent all of this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Mexico).
- Finally, the 3rd UHV represents Mexico's most painful (and still regretted) event, the loss of half of the territory. Mexico lost all of Central America a couple of years after independence from Spain, as all of those countries asked for their own independence. Texas also declared independence and that started the Mexican-American war that ended up with the loss of the modern southwestern USA. Mexico also received a couple of French invasions and other territories also declared independence at different points in history, although, unsuccessfully. The instability of Central America and Texas and specially the aggressive attitude of the more scientifically and militarily advanced US should make this 3rd UHV hard to achieve. On the side of the US, getting this territory through war and not settling empty land is also more historical and interesting.
so... what do you think??
I think that for the modern independent nations of the new world (ie, mexico, brazil, etc) you shouldn't make their spawn dependent on previous colonization. I understand that you may want to define some spawns as conditional, but I think that in low civ density areas (like the Americas) that's not the best option. Another cool idea would be to let the human player spawn only with the capital and have him/her conquer his way to full independence as the 1st UHV.
Regarding Mexico and Peru/Colombia, I wouldn't mind seeing the Aztecs "evolve" into Mexico, specially if they have lagged behind in tech/score or are unstable. Same could apply for the Incas.
About Brazil, I think that jungles should have a different effect for them, Brazil doesn't have that many cities IN the amazon forest and they have done a lot of deforestation to get agricultural and pastoral land. Actually, I'd even suggest an ecologically-related 3rd UHV for Brazil. Although I do like the three ones that soul-breathing suggested, apart from the limitation of building the wonders specifically in Rio, if most of the American countries are spawning by themselves, then UHV2 wouldn't be much of a challenge.
Regarding Argentina, here are some UHV suggestions:
UHV1: Export X number of food resources (cattle or cereals) by 1900, either for gold or for other non-food resources.
UHV2: Have the most industrialized economy in the world by 1950, or, alternatively, the highest GDP.
UHV3: (Haven't thought of this one yet...)
In any case, if there are any Brazilians or Argentinians reading this, I'd say they would be the best to point out what their countries' most important feats and challenges are.
Regarding Mexico (and as the Mexican I am) here's a suggestion:
Important notes:
- You should spawn a horse and an iron resource for them (The iron should either be immediately north of Mexico City or on the northeastern part, near the Gulf).
- The Americans should be aggressive, at least during the XIX century.
- Mexico should spawn with Catholicism as state religion and with a missionary.
- At least one of the mountain tiles in the Pacific coast should be turned to hills.
- The Aztecs' and Mayan's last UHVs should be moved earlier so that they can be achieved before Mexico's spawn.
Spawn date: 1810 (declaration of independence).
Spawn/Flip area: All of modern Mexico, southwestern USA (Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, western Colorado) and Central America down to Costa Rica (not Panama). (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Mexican_Empire)
Unstable areas: Texas (but not the other US States I mentioned) and Central America from (Guatemala to Costa Rica).
LH: Hidalgo (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=8014) or Juarez (http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14218).
UU: A modified Rifleman or some late 1800's unit. You could call them "Revolucionario", "Insurgente" or something of the like, I can't think of other names.
UB: A Lienzo Charro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lienzo_charro), that could replace either the theatre or the stadium, is the only building I can think of so far. It should require horse or at least some other animal resource. The building should give a stability bonus, in addition to the culture bonus it normally gives.
UP: (Name?) - Cities with Catholicism get a special bonus (culture? production?) even if there is no state religion.
UHV1: Make Mexico City the largest and most cultured city in the world by 1970.
UHV2: Establish an embassy with every other civ and achieve a friendly/polite attitude from at least 70% (or X%) of world leaders by 2000.
UHV3: Maintain territorial integrity, either until 2000 or, preferably, until the last turn. This means not losing any cities, wherever they are, because of conquests or instability AND not allowing any foreign cities in the spawn area (ie: settle the area if it hadn't been settled).
Here's a justification for my proposals:
- The first UHV is quite straightforward, Mexico City is one of the largest cities of the world and, on some counts, the largest one for a long time in the late XXth Century. The cultural part represents the country's cultural diversity and artistic history.
- The 2nd UHV stems from the country's long history of peaceful diplomacy and non-intervention policy. During the XXth Century, Mexico's foreign policy has been to accept sovereignty of all other states (dictatorships included), to not doing any military interventions and to grant asylum to any refugees that ask for it. Also, Mexico has more free trade agreements than any other country. The UP should help with this goal, as having no state religion could be a way to improve relations, yet as Mexico starts with Catholicism the anarchy should make it a challenge for the 3rd UHV. This anarchy perfectly represents the Reform Wars of the XIXth Century, so it's all historical =). The embassy/attitude UHV is, IMO, a good way to represent all of this. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_relations_of_Mexico).
- Finally, the 3rd UHV represents Mexico's most painful (and still regretted) event, the loss of half of the territory. Mexico lost all of Central America a couple of years after independence from Spain, as all of those countries asked for their own independence. Texas also declared independence and that started the Mexican-American war that ended up with the loss of the modern southwestern USA. Mexico also received a couple of French invasions and other territories also declared independence at different points in history, although, unsuccessfully. The instability of Central America and Texas and specially the aggressive attitude of the more scientifically and militarily advanced US should make this 3rd UHV hard to achieve. On the side of the US, getting this territory through war and not settling empty land is also more historical and interesting.
so... what do you think??
Keep them coming, I'm already collecting ideas
I think those civs should be based on the stability of their colonial powers (although with a not too high threshold).
I'm still undecided on that ...
I think that UP referred to the fact that chopping jungles will give production (at least that was my vision for the UP), but of course the food and health penalty remain. That represents exactly the things you mention: Brazilian economic growth through deforestation.
Me too! I thought about something that makes you build the National Park and some forest preservations (that would also create interesting decisions on which jungles to chop and which to keep). I agree that we could easily drop UHV2, seeing how many civs have something similar already.
Sounds good so far.
hoplitejoe
Top fun-poster
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 5,470
Will version 1.8 focus on america then?
AOS9001
Slightly over 9000.
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2009
- Messages
- 1,274
All this stuff about the New World independent nations sounds quite exciting. But in South America, independence was not easy. Most of Peru (and Bolivia) remained under Spanish control, through the Viceroyalty of Lima. This got me thinking, that when the wars for independence come, some cities should stay loyal to Spain, and present a challenge for the newborn civ. And perhaps Lima should spawn, at some point. Cuzco isn't that important nowadays.
ozqar
King
Keep them coming, I'm already collecting ideas
Thanks for replying in so much detail! I definitely will.
It's just that I would so much like to see Mexico around, and the other civs as well. I like the map to be as civ diverse as possible =). But that's of course up to you.
In that case the UP would be quite appropriate and indeed would challenge the player with some good decision making regarding opportunity costs.
About Mexico City's growth, the "fast" urbanization process started in the 1940s and only recently slowed down. The growth was caused by massive internal migration, from the countryside to the capital, as the country industrialized and institutionalized health reforms. 1970 would actually already be too early for real life. But ah, if you want it earlier, it's not a big deal; it would definitely be more challenging and interesting.
This is the population of the Metro area throughout the 20th Century:
1900 - 0.3 million
1920 - 0.6 million
1940 - 1.6 million
1960 - 5.3 million
1980 - 13.4 million
1990 - 15 million
2000 - 20 million
2010 - around 23 million
* In case you're wondering, the Valley of Mexico was much more populated during Aztec times than by early XXth century.
I had already thought of the extra food tile. Sometimes I add it via WB when I'm playing the Aztecs in modern times. Early XXth Century would be the point to add it, to give it time to have an effect on city growth by late XXth Century.
I'll try to recall my History lessons and think of something for the Aztecs and Mayans too.
Yeah, I know. I specially don't know much of "military history" but I'll ask around, perhaps some friends do.
I'll also try to think of other UBs. Perhaps a building named "Archaeological Ruins" that could boost culture and commerce (as tourism)? They could be a replacement for the monument, but one that doesn't go obsolete. I'll try and find other options.
Yeah, at least it would be challenging to manage your way to being liked without a UP to help you with positive attitude from others. And it's something the government has historically been proud of.
Yeah, that's another option, but Mexico has never declared war on anyone (except Spain, of course), so it would be quite ahistorical. Mexico City, as capital of the New Spain, had already governed those areas for almost 300 years by the time Independence was declared. Not only those, but also Cuba, the Dominican Republic, (Puerto Rico, I think) and the Philippines were all governed from Mexico City. Yet, all those islands remained Spanish after independence, which is why I didn't suggest them in the spawn area. Another point to consider is that a "Maintaining Territorial Integrity" is different from all the "Conquering" UHV's in that its strategy is defense and stability related, and not so much attack related.
The loss of the northern part of the country was of course, a military feat of the US, but the mexican government had much fault of its own. The area was terribly defended and not well populated. When Texas declared independence as a Republic, there were more americans than mexicans living there. Had the mexican/novohispanic government used better policy before that moment, improving communications, promoting larger settlements, decentralizing the economy and political power, dealing better with the army and working on national growth and defense and not so much on political rebellions and coup d'etats, history could've been different; not as in "we would've won the war" but as in "perhaps no war would've happened" as part of the american interest in the area was that is had a very low population density.
In game terms this all means maintaining stability, settling the area and defending your cities. In any case, this policy, development and military planning "failure" of ours is what best represents a 3rd long wished but never accomplished UHV, as it's something every kid in school still learns. Actually, they teach it with an even more nationalistic feeling of "we were robbed by those bullies" and this "territorial trauma" still shapes national identity. I hope I didn't sound too nationalistic myself, I actually tried to be as objective as I could hahaha.
In any case, the US should be more technologically advanced than Mexico (at least by the time Mexico spawns) and they should have quite an aggressive attitude towards Mexico, so it should be a hard goal. Perhaps having a "Fulfill the Manifest Destiny" UHV would be fitting for the Americans. War should definitely happen between them at some point or another (but please don't code it to a fixed date, that's predictable and uncool IMO).
Also, if there was any way to make the French aggressive towards Mexico during the 1800's but then have no diplomacy penalty afterwards, then that would be great too. The french invaded a couple of times back then, but we're all good buddies now
.Yes, for sure; Mexico is a big oil exporter and oil makes our number one income and energy source, but compared to other oil exporters Mexico is not that big. I think it's Venezuela (Gran Colombia?) and the Persian Gulf countries who would have that honor. Yet anything related to getting X oil resources would be awkward, as it would force expansion that has never happened in real life (as there's a limit to how much you can actually get through trade).
If you're thinking of something to replace the diplomacy UHV with, because maybe it's not possible to code, I'll try to think of other "uncommon" yet "fitting" goals. Maybe something related to biodiversity or cultural diversity; that's also something we're "officially" proud of =).
Totally agreed on the hard independence part. I think independence wars weren't easy in any case. A good way to implement this would be with some instability in certain areas, in general instability upon spawn or in the appearance of a *small* army for the mother country in the new nation's territory. But do have it be something small, nothing of a conquerors event dimension! Those wars were all eventually won! (So I'd favor something instability related). But agreed on having Lima and not Cuzco - maybe a simple name change could do it.
On a different Civ, if you're considering having a Gran Colombia Civilization, the obvious LH would be Simón Bolivar. I was thinking that if you went for the option of having new world civs spawn with just the capital and then conquer their territory, then it would be fitting for Bolivar's first UHV to make sure they all succeed, but South America is too big for an army to travel all around the continent and conquer every city's independence in the couple of turns that all those independence movements took in real life terms. Maybe a UP with positive attitude from Latin American leaders would do this? Although, I know that wouldn't be very original...
Oh, and here's were I got the suggestions for Argentina, maybe you'll see something you like there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_Argentina
soul-breathing
Emperor
You're perfectly understandable, and thanks for the suggestions
Thanks!
Now these are some other civilizations in my plan.
3.Australia
Leader:unsettled
UU: unsettled
UB: pub-(grocer)
UP: Aussie on the Sea:
Coast +1
and +1 
UHV:
1.Secure or get by trade 5 sheep and 5 coals in 1920AD
2.Control at least 7 cities on the Pacific islands in 1950AD(except Australia and Tasmania)
3.Be the first to discover Genetics and Composites
Rating:
TRADE:★★★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★★
GROWTH:★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★★
Spawn/Flip area:New South Wales,Victoria and Tasmania
4.Canada
Leader:Samuel de Champlain
UU:unsettled
UB:unsettled
UP:The name-unsettled
Cities neighboured with USA keep at least 9 plots and never revolt because of culture
UHV:
1.Complete the railway from Vancouver to Halifax before 1900AD,and ensure all the region controlled by Canada
2.Have at least 5 Arctic coastal cities in 1950AD(include the Hudson Bay)
3.Be the first to discover Ecology and Future Tech
Rating:
TRADE:★★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
ECULTURE:★★★★
GROWTH:★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★★
Spawn/Flip area:Ontario,Quebec,New Brunswick and Nova Skocia
5.Mexico
Leader:unsettled
UU:unsettled
UB:unsettled
UP
ower of Mural:Wonders will never obsolete in Mexico
UHV:
1.Ensure there're no Europe colonies on the Caribbean coastal in 1900AD
2.Control Texas,New Mexico,Arizona and California in 1950AD
3.Build the Olympic Park in Ciudad de Mexico before 1970AD
Rating:
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★★
CULTURE:★★★
GROWTH:★★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★
Spawn/Flip area:South of Rio Grande and north of Panama
6.Indonesia
Leader:Sukarno
UU:unsettled
UB:unsettled
UP:Units can move on the coast in Indonesia
UHV:
1.Ensure there're no European,Chinese,Japanese and American cities in South and Southeast Asia in 1960AD
2.Ensure in every controlled city Indonesian culture larger than 50% in 2000AD
3.Make Jakarta the most populous city in 2000AD
TRADE:★★★
PRODUCTION:★★
CULTURE:★★★
GROWTH:★★★★★
STARTING SITUATION:★★
Spawn/Flip area
ulau Sumatera,Kalimantan Island and JawaHope the new version will be released soon!Thanks Leoreth and all the creators!
Tomorrow's Dawn
Heroes Never Die
Indonesia is already in (on the SVN version).
However, I like your third goal for them (Make Jaykarta the most populous city in the world) and think it would be a good alternative for their existing first goal (Make Indonesia the most populous nation in the world).
However, I like your third goal for them (Make Jaykarta the most populous city in the world) and think it would be a good alternative for their existing first goal (Make Indonesia the most populous nation in the world).
great.taurus
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2010
- Messages
- 149
If you are doing the post colonial civs as proper with UHV's, UU's etc, I might as well put forward my proposal for Australia. This is lifted pretty much word for word from my post in Civ's in Abundance, with some additional comments.
For the purposes of this suggestion, I am assuming Australia spawns as a Vassal of the major colonial power on their continent (probably English or Dutch)
Name: Australia
Trade: *****
Production: ***
Culture: ***
Growth: *
Starting Situation: ***
Leaders: John Curtin
Control at least one city in New Guinea, one city in Fiji and two in New Zealand by 2000 AD
Start: 1855 AD (When Self Rule had its roots and nationalism was kicking off) or 1901 AD (When Australia Federated). Pick whichever one is more balanced.
Starting Location: Canberra
Flip Zone: All cities on the continent belonging to their master.
Just as an aside, the suggestion from Soul-Breathing is pretty good too
His UP is probably a better choice, and his UHV's are all pretty good, except the research one which I don't think is historical.
Perhaps a combination of the two suggestions would serve well.
For the purposes of this suggestion, I am assuming Australia spawns as a Vassal of the major colonial power on their continent (probably English or Dutch)
Name: Australia
Trade: *****
Production: ***
Culture: ***
Growth: *
Starting Situation: ***
Leaders: John Curtin
- By far the best option.
- Art exists for this leader already.
- Explanation: While there are a number of choices for UU that could be chosen to represent Australia, few are actually unique. The Australian Light Horse presents a truly unique unit - capable of fighting as regular infantry, taking a position as mounted infantry and charging enemy lines as cavalry.
- I know there are art files for the Light Horse somewhere.
- Explanation: Represents colonial era Australia. Also allows them to maintain competitive in terms of industry despite such a low population.
- I dont know if appropriate art files exist, or even if they are needed.
- Not totally sold on this. It's a good fit, but it seems a little dull, to be perfectly honest.
Control at least one city in New Guinea, one city in Fiji and two in New Zealand by 2000 AD
- Ahistorical
- Explanation: Australia controlled New Guinea for over 50 years, and both Fiji and New Zealand nearly joined the federation at its birth.
- Every civ needs a good expansionist goal
- Approximately Historical
- Explanation: Australians fought in many major wars in which their troops were placed under foreign rule.
- I like this one because it is just so different from any other UHV.
- Historical
- A pretty standard UHV. These tech UHV's are usually reasonably difficult, but not boring.
- Historical
- Kinda boring and generic.
- Approximately Historical
- Also pretty boring.
Start: 1855 AD (When Self Rule had its roots and nationalism was kicking off) or 1901 AD (When Australia Federated). Pick whichever one is more balanced.
Starting Location: Canberra
Flip Zone: All cities on the continent belonging to their master.
Just as an aside, the suggestion from Soul-Breathing is pretty good too
His UP is probably a better choice, and his UHV's are all pretty good, except the research one which I don't think is historical.
Perhaps a combination of the two suggestions would serve well.
AOS9001
Slightly over 9000.
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The main problem with that is Lima is built right on the coast, and some few hundred miles west of Cuzco... I think it's about 3 tiles west, in the game.
I think when you guys are talking about having post-colonial civs several things are critical:
-There should be system where you are born as a colony and have to achieve independence through various means. My recommendation to do this is to add a more stern and profitable form of vassalization where the Mother country controls 50% of your wealth (before research or culture) and all of your luxury and strategic resources and all food resources that the mother nation does not have.
So this vassalization would have several points:
-Your color and flag (or variants) are the same as the Mother Country. (this might be similar to what happens to Ghorids in SOI; as they get a mid game color and flag change too and i think Synthesis already has this with the vassals part only of course)
-You share 50% of you wealth with mother country.
-Mother country can ask you for a certain number of troops in times of war.
-You share all tech with mother country.
-You give all resources to mother country except certain food and strategic ones.
These Post-Colonial Civs start out as these "Vassals" stated above that can gain Independence through two means:
a) As a colony, you start building an army (but your choices of units will be limited thus the mother nation because a) you dont have strategic resources and b) several units would just be disabled for colonies to represent history). After you think you have an adequete army, you declare war on you mother country which leads to an (or multiple) army spawning (of the mother country) in your country and several cities flipping to them. Then you fight for your independence. Historically this was the method used America and Latin America.
b)This is the gradual independence policy used by Canada and Australia; here you have achieve certain things to "earn" autonomy. These are:
-You have to have a large enough population and economy; possibly requiring you to have a larger population and economy than your mother country.
-You have to discover certain techs like for example Democracy, Constitution, Railroad or something along those lines to have independence.
(although declaring independence would not have a deadline but you can shape the UHVs in a way where it would not be possible to acheive without declaring independence in a certain timeperiod)
Other things that can also be included to this option (but im not totally onboard with):
-Have a military larger than ur mother country.
-Be more tech advanced than ...
etc
Requirments for the Ai and Human to acheive independence would be entirely different (a lot more harderr independence for the human); but the AI can even get a scripted independence if you want. Each country can have a different or unique requirement/war type to achieve independence (which i recommend) or a generic 2 options for all. Achieving Independence can very well serve as the first UHV for all these new civs and imo it would not be boring because every country will be in a different and unique position and will have to do different thing to acheive independence. It will be pretty hard the fact that you will be heavily burdened by the 50% income tax by the mother country and giving all resources while acheiving certain goals for independence. Besides the obvious advantages for using this system, there is also the additional advantage that civs that wil get little gameplay time if spawned when they declared independence will get a lot more gameplay time like in the case of Canada or Australia or even Brazil.
Leoreth, If you are interested, I have spawn dates/ requirements for independence/ the exact nature of how wars with different countries will look or how which requirements will be needed for gradual independence all worked out.
-There should be system where you are born as a colony and have to achieve independence through various means. My recommendation to do this is to add a more stern and profitable form of vassalization where the Mother country controls 50% of your wealth (before research or culture) and all of your luxury and strategic resources and all food resources that the mother nation does not have.
So this vassalization would have several points:
-Your color and flag (or variants) are the same as the Mother Country. (this might be similar to what happens to Ghorids in SOI; as they get a mid game color and flag change too and i think Synthesis already has this with the vassals part only of course)
-You share 50% of you wealth with mother country.
-Mother country can ask you for a certain number of troops in times of war.
-You share all tech with mother country.
-You give all resources to mother country except certain food and strategic ones.
These Post-Colonial Civs start out as these "Vassals" stated above that can gain Independence through two means:
a) As a colony, you start building an army (but your choices of units will be limited thus the mother nation because a) you dont have strategic resources and b) several units would just be disabled for colonies to represent history). After you think you have an adequete army, you declare war on you mother country which leads to an (or multiple) army spawning (of the mother country) in your country and several cities flipping to them. Then you fight for your independence. Historically this was the method used America and Latin America.
b)This is the gradual independence policy used by Canada and Australia; here you have achieve certain things to "earn" autonomy. These are:
-You have to have a large enough population and economy; possibly requiring you to have a larger population and economy than your mother country.
-You have to discover certain techs like for example Democracy, Constitution, Railroad or something along those lines to have independence.
(although declaring independence would not have a deadline but you can shape the UHVs in a way where it would not be possible to acheive without declaring independence in a certain timeperiod)
Other things that can also be included to this option (but im not totally onboard with):
-Have a military larger than ur mother country.
-Be more tech advanced than ...
etc
Requirments for the Ai and Human to acheive independence would be entirely different (a lot more harderr independence for the human); but the AI can even get a scripted independence if you want. Each country can have a different or unique requirement/war type to achieve independence (which i recommend) or a generic 2 options for all. Achieving Independence can very well serve as the first UHV for all these new civs and imo it would not be boring because every country will be in a different and unique position and will have to do different thing to acheive independence. It will be pretty hard the fact that you will be heavily burdened by the 50% income tax by the mother country and giving all resources while acheiving certain goals for independence. Besides the obvious advantages for using this system, there is also the additional advantage that civs that wil get little gameplay time if spawned when they declared independence will get a lot more gameplay time like in the case of Canada or Australia or even Brazil.
Leoreth, If you are interested, I have spawn dates/ requirements for independence/ the exact nature of how wars with different countries will look or how which requirements will be needed for gradual independence all worked out.
soul-breathing
Emperor
I mean total indepandence,a new civilization,not only a vassal state of their mother country.
- Status
