Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

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They still need their settler and city name maps (they use the Greek and Roman one currently, respectively); I have to implement their UP and parts of the UHV, then everything will have to be at least rudimentary balanced ... and I'd also like to make a powerful Persia and Rome more likely in 3000 BC.

So there's still a lot to do :D
 
Do you plan on changing Ethiopia's UHVs? The religion-founding one is good but the two others... Quite boring if you ask me.
 
Maybe it could give them a more calculated victory?

And I think the other UHVs for Ethiopia are pretty boring, too!!

Lol, I find that Persia is pretty powerful in the 3000 bc start, the Romans, however, are usually pretty focused towards the empty parts of Europe and the Barbarians to do a much in the Eastern Empire.
 
Ethiopia's UHV:
Would love to replace one of them, but no idea with what.

Byzantium's UHV:
- Have 5000 gold in 1000 AD
- Make Constantinople the world's largest and most cultured city in 1200 AD
- Own three cities in the Balkans, North Africa and the Near East in 1450 AD

Rome's military performance:
Construction is a good idea. I'm also thinking about additional units for the AI in spawn auto-wars.

Math puns:
newton_and_leibniz.png
 
Here are a few ideas that should IMHO help Rome dominate antiquity.

Would it be possible to get Phoenician to build more cities in the Med? If they overextend and then Rome begins at war with them then they should be able to take Africa, Sicily and Iberia within moments of spawning thus being well placed for whatever comes next. Starting the legions in the galleys might help in this regard as well.

If you change the Greek UU to a spearman with +50% vs melee, this way they are 1 point weaker, which combined with all the multipliers working from a lower starting value should make a big difference to their ability to make Greece a pain to invade as Rome.

Removing the copper from Egypt will force them to focus on a combination of Archers and War Chariots, which should be no match for the legions.

Finally the Romans coped OK with most barbarians until the Migration period, so releave pre-migration barbs and increasing the number after 400AD might help as well.
 
A stronger Persia with more of a dislike for Greece would definitely help, as in most games I have seen, Greece get's strong enough to block Rome's eastern expansion. The biggest problem though is the AI's inability to mount a naval invasion. There has to be something that forces Rome to cross the Mediterranean. Phoenician cities could be the key if Rome was set to Total war against them. Maybe against Persia too.

The other issue is production and timeline. There is just not enough production capability in the time frame needed to create enough troops, move the troops and do the conquering, while still building the required buildings and fending of the barbs. Maybe the civ's UP needs to be change to give this a hand. Something like the conquerors event, where you receive an army whenever you conquer a city in a new continent. The use of romanized local troops was key to rome's empire. Or maybe the building UHV condition could get changed to something not production oriented so all of Rome's production could be building Legions. Making Rome OP is not that bad cuz Rome frickin was OP!! As long as it is controlled with stability and civ spawns so that it is temporary, it shouldn't really effect the full game.


Also, what he said ^^^^^^


Also, is their any way to make it so a UHV is counted and acknowledged, but it doesn't actually create a victory? I would like to, for instance, win a UHV with say Rome, but then keep playing and switch to another civ when it spawns. I know you can keep playing, but civ switching, other victories etc are disabled. For some reason I think it would be kind of neat to travel through history like this and create alternate worlds. It'd be fun to play in a map that was a legacy of your earlier triumph.
 
Kairob and jammerculture posted a lot of interesting ideas here. I think having cheaper (but just as powerful) legions in general would be good as well. But prior to making large amount of changes and rebalancing, I'd rather see the new combat system first, or at least an outline of what Leoreth is planning on doing.
 
Maybe Romes UHV could be the ability to 'draft' 2 units/turn from cities with at least 3 pop. We could even add a new unit for this 'Auxiliaries' with whatever stats are appropriate?

EDIT: Also if we make the Greeks care more about wonders and less about soldiers then it will be both easier to take and more rewarding.

EDIT: If cities built after 1000ad had 2 pop from the start then Rome might get to keep some of those Phoenician cities...
And if you give Phoenicia a settler in Iberia it sends a boat to pick it up and move it to Africa, what's that about?
 
kairob said:
if we make the Greeks care more about wonders and less about soldiers then it will be both easier to take and more rewarding.
Click to expand...

From my tinkerings (this was before I played DoC), increasing Pericles wonder rand to drastically high (e.g. 80) and lowering the unit build rand leads to Rome usually taking at least one city (Constantinople especially, if founded). The problem was that Rome lost momentum after taking the first city; maybe total war or weakening the hoplite will fix that. There seemed to also be an increased risk of super-Greece, if it managed to survive the barbs and Rome.

jammerculture said:
The biggest problem though is the AI's inability to mount a naval invasion. There has to be something that forces Rome to cross the Mediterranean...
The other issue is production and timeline. There is just not enough production capability in the time frame needed to create enough troops, move the troops and do the conquering, while still building the required buildings and fending of the barbs.
Click to expand...

For Rome taking Africa, the problem is that it's part of Asia, treated as a different continent (the way the AI sees it). Maybe north Africa could be counted a part of Europe until 600AD, then converted to Asia (for Arab AI).

As for production problems, personally I'd like to see mercenaries fix the problem. The system is pretty useless for humans, but I believe the AI gets bonuses. Making the AI hire them more opportunistically and aggressively could help. Only allowing mercenaries only from the current era to be listed would also help.

I'm not sure why I like this solution; I guess it's b/c it'll feel more realistic to see more mercenaries running around, since most ancient armies employed mercenaries in some amount. Of course, scripted events should be fine, too, though hopefully not too deterministic.
 
So I settled Cyprus as Phoenicia and I got an Utica >_<

I hate Utica, specially from my RFCE experiences

Kition would be a somewhat suitable name for a city founded there as Phoenicia.

Anyway that's my first impression of the mod my first time around :p I like the religion changes so far, haven't got a game to reformation yet though.
 
A Rome total war against Greece and Carthage would also help Rome create its empire. The only concern I have is whether the game would be too deterministic with Rome dominating Greece every game (which on the other hand does create quite a historical scenario though :P)

Having Rome be overpowered by dominating Greece, Carthage, and maybe even Egypt, would be a neat way of clearing up a lot of the Classical civs prior to the spawn of Medieval civs such as Arabia. Personally I'd always prefer seeing a civ destroyed by a legitimate war against its historical conqueror rather than getting destroyed by a newly spawned civ (as i think may end up happening if Byzantines are added. Essentially hopefully in most games Greece is gone before the Byzantine spawn so the Byzantines will just be up in a war scenario with Rome or a collapsed Rome).

Also ideally in Leoreth's combat system changes, Legions will not fail against Hoplites anymore while Hoplites maintain their advantage against Immortals, Chariots and other more "eastern" units.


Also is there by chance a scripted palace change for Phoenician AI players ~the year 600BC? I think that will help Carthage focus more on the western mediterranean and also make it less vulnerable to collapse after losing Tyre.
 
hey i had a problem trying to extract the files...

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On Ethiopia's UHVs, what about:

1. Found one religion (a bit iffy on that one because it really relies on luck)
2. Establish trading relations with Mediterranean and Far-East civs (either by gaining some there-exclusive resources like Silk or Spices or Marble, or by having Embassies or by Open Borders only?)
3. Ensure there's no European colonies in subsaharian Africa in 1900 AD

(instead of #1 we could have something about culture but I'm not sure how; "make Aksum the most cultured city in X" is already done by other civs, and I'm not sure Ethiopia can really compete)
 
Instead of "make Aksum the most cultured city in X", why not "make Aksum have X culture by X"...

And if you weaken greece's UU, then players playing AS the greeks would have a harder time with there UHV. Its a double edged sword... (meaning you can't weaken Greece for the Romans without weakening Greece for the Human player). If the UU would have to be changed, the UU for Persia would have to be restored (I like the new one, personally).
 
Actually the changed Greek UU would only be slightly weaker making it worse against the Roman but would have the benefit of being good against both cavalry and melee making it more useful for a human player due to its increase versatility. It would also be cheaper to build. (as spearmen are IIRC cheaper than axemen.
 
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