Dell screws Ireland over... In favor of Poland

[RedRalph]

Yeah Winner, I think I know what its common usage is a bit better than you, and yes, Poland is indeed a poor country compared to Western Europe. Why would anyone not object to being called poor? Because some countries ARE poor, and pretending they arent is just pathetic. Ireland was dirt poor for a long time, now we might be heading back to that. think we will try and kid ourselves we arent if it does happen? No, we'll admit it.

 

[Grisu]

Since I am obviously not very good at English, I looked for the word "poor" in the dictionary:

come on, Winner, you know very well that in the context of this thread there's really only one interpretation to the word 'poor' and that's the monetary one...

of course, we wouldn't have this problem if english wasn't such a limited language

 

[Winner]

Yeah Winner, I think I know what its common usage is a bit better than you, and yes, Poland is indeed a poor country compared to Western Europe.

The word poor meaning is absolute, using it as if it was relative is imho wrong. It would be like saying that 60 years old man with a hypertension is dead compared to healthy 25 years old athlete. It's simply bullcrap.

You can use the word poor to describe Zimbabwe, not Poland. What matters here is the living standard, which is on average much better than most Western Europeans realize. If the Poles were poor, people would be starving, jobless, homeless etc.

Why would anyone not object to being called poor? Because some countries ARE poor, and pretending they arent is just pathetic.

Using this words for a country which isn't poor is that what's pathetic here. I am sure it helps your ego when you can spit arrogant judgments about countries you mostly know nothing about, but it certainly doesn't make you right

Ireland was dirt poor for a long time, now we might be heading back to that. think we will try and kid ourselves we arent if it does happen? No, we'll admit it.

You're totally out of touch with reality. Czech Rep. is on average about 70% richer than Poland. The difference is almost as big as the difference between Ireland and France or Germany and the Czech Rep., so do we brag about it and sneer at the Poles, calling them "dirt poor" etc.? No.

Simply admit that the word poor can hardly be used for a country where most people have a decent living, cars, connection to internet, and shut up

 

[Winner]

come on, Winner, you know very well that in the context of this thread there's really only one interpretation to the word 'poor' and that's the monetary one...

I am merely explaining why some people might not like being called poor when they're not Anyway, if RedRalph and others said something like "Poland is on average poorer than -insert random WE country-", I'd just take it as a figure of speech. But when he says "dirt poor" and he means it, it's clearly wrong and based on stupid stereotypes, which the Poles may indeed find a bit insulting. Wouldn't you?

of course, we wouldn't have this problem if english wasn't such a limited language

Indeed

 

[RedRalph]

Poor is an inherently relative word, you may not be aware of this because English isnt your first langauge. You cannot be poor or rich unless there is something to compare it to. Its just not possible, any more than its possible to be tall, fat, or thin. Sorry Winner, you are just out-and-out wrong on this. Poland is poor compared to Norway, rich compared to Somalia. Its nothing at all on the scale of rich and poor when compared to no other country, because that makes no sense. You are wrong.

BTW, point out where I have sneered at Poland, cause I've looked over my posts and I cant see it. Yet again, you imagine eastern and central Europe is being looked down on by westerners, when it isnt. Textbook inferiority complex.

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[Shekwan]

There is barely a difference financially between the average Pole and the average Frenchman is my point. We aren't poor commies anymore, if you haven't heard.

Poland GDP per Capita = €18,000
France GDP per Capita = €34,000

(Figures shown are PPP from 2007)

So the average French person is twice as well off as the average Pole.

Since I am obviously not very good at English, I looked for the word "poor" in the dictionary:



How the heck could anyone not like being called poor?

Is Poland less developed that France? Yes. Do the people on average have lower wages? Yes. Are they poor? No. So, perhaps you should admit that your WestEuro bias is speaking here, take it back and carry on

Someone obviously doesn't know the meaning of words in his own native language. Is that pathetic or just funny?

Firstly, my native language is Irish thankyouverymuch. It's irrelevant that I can't speak it fluently.

Secondly, poor is used in this thread as an economic term, which takes into account relative wealth. Do you think the Polish government sit down and say, "Well we're very well off - just look at how Angola's doing!" No they don't because that ridiculous. They sit down and ask, "How can we raise wealth levels to that of the EU15?" I have every confidence that Poland will do this, but economically speaking they are still a poor country in Europe.

EDIT: Hold on a second here, Winner aren't always speaking of your crusade against the "PC" people - have you crossed over onto the other side with this one? It seems you're trying to be overly politically correct in your offense to the term "poor". Would you rather I use PC terms like developing or middle income? While you've got the dictionary out, why not look up "hypocrisy"?

RRW, thanks for the heads up, I knew this inferiority complex would be drawn out if I highlighted this poor thing. I really don't get it because Poland is a great country and I don't doubt it will be just as well off as any other western european country in a few years.

Oh, and since its kind of on topic. I just got my new Dell today. It said "Made in Poland" on it. I'm pleased to report its still running but I can sense the poor eastern european craftsmanship...

Spoiler :

It's a joke people relax!

 

[Grisu]

I am merely explaining why some people might not like being called poor when they're not Anyway, if RedRalph and others said something like "Poland is on average poorer than -insert random WE country-", I'd just take it as a figure of speech. But when he says "dirt poor" and he means it, it's clearly wrong and based on stupid stereotypes, which the Poles may indeed find a bit insulting. Wouldn't you?

well, dirt poor is a bit of an exagerration unless you compare them to the richest, but poor is the truth. But maybe we should indeed use more political correctness when talking about the financial situations of former east-bloc-citizens

 

[RedRalph]

RRW, thanks for the heads up, I knew this inferiority complex would be drawn out if I highlighted this poor thing. I really don't get it because Poland is a great country and I don't doubt it will be just as well off as any other western european country in a few years.

I know, thats the bizarre thing - its no slight whatsoever to call a country poor, its a matter of fact. Ireland was poor for frickin eternity until the 90s, dosent mean there werent good things about the country, Poland is poor now, wont be for ever, dosent mean its a bad country....

the weird things about this complex is that they similtaneously accuse us 'westerners' of being ignorant, condescending and arrogant while protesting as loud as they can how western they are. Sad really.

 

[Winner]

Poor is an inherently relative word, you may not be aware of this because English isnt your first langauge. You cannot be poor or rich unless there is something to compare it to. Its just not possible, any more than its possible to be tall, fat, or thin. Sorry Winner, you are just out-and-out wrong on this. Poland is poor compared to Norway, rich compared to Somalia. Its nothing at all on the scale of rich and poor when compared to no other country, because that makes no sense. You are wrong

You know, you actually have to disprove other people's arguments before saying that Who should I trust - the dictionary or some anglicized Irishman? I choose the dictionary

BTW, point out where I have sneered at Poland, cause I've looked over my posts and I cant see it. Yet again, you imagine eastern and central Europe is being looked down on by westerners, when it isnt. Textbook inferiority complex.

"You're stupid."
- "What? I am not stupid, why do you insult me?"
"You're totally stupid, compared to the other guy."
- "WTF? What does it have to do with him?"
"He got A+ on the test, you got B-, you're stupid."
- "No, I just wasn't as good as him, that's all. It doesn't mean I am stupid."
"Shut up, stupid! The truth hurts, doesn't it, Mr. Stupid?"



You're a textbook case of obtuseness. I already explained everything, it's not my problem you can't admit that you're wrong - perhaps you can't because of your superiority complex?

Moderator Action: Don't flame.
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[Winner]

Firstly, my native language is Irish thankyouverymuch. It's irrelevant that I can't speak it fluently.

Secondly, poor is used in this thread as an economic term, which takes into account relative wealth. Do you think the Polish government sit down and say, "Well we're very well off - just look at how Angola's doing!" No they don't because that ridiculous. They sit down and ask, "How can we raise wealth levels to that of the EU15?" I have every confidence that Poland will do this, but economically speaking they are still a poor country in Europe.

EDIT: Hold on a second here, Winner aren't always speaking of your crusade against the "PC" people - have you crossed over onto the other side with this one? It seems you're trying to be overly politically correct in your offense to the term "poor". Would you rather I use PC terms like developing or middle income? While you've got the dictionary out, why not look up "hypocrisy"?

You need to focus on what I am saying, or perhaps you need to refresh your memory. You said: "How this can be offensive is a mystery to me."

I only explained, that using the word "poor" to describe a country which doesn't fit the definition MIGHT be slighty offensive to people who live there, simply because they will NOT take it as a relative term.

That's all. Hypocrisy? From me? Nah. I am just pointing out an error in your reasoning, personally I don't give a damn.

RRW, thanks for the heads up, I knew this inferiority complex would be drawn out if I highlighted this poor thing. I really don't get it because Poland is a great country and I don't doubt it will be just as well off as any other western european country in a few years.

So, if I said something like "blacks are stupider than whites" to a black man and he racted angrily to that, I should tell him to frak off, since he's obviously suffering from an inferiority complex? Not agreeing with a wrong assessment is now a sign of an inferiority complex?

You guys really need to think before you start jumping to conclusion. Is that some kind of a tradition in Ireland?

 

[Shekwan]

You need to focus on what I am saying, or perhaps you need to refresh your memory. You said: "How this can be offensive is a mystery to me.

I only explained, that using the word "poor" to describe a country which doesn't fit the decision MIGHT be slighty offensive to people who live there, simply because they will NOT take it as a relative term.

That's all. Hypocrisy? From me? Nah. I am just point out an error in your reasoning, personally I don't give a damn.

So, if I said something like "blacks are stupider than whites" to a black man and he racted angrily on that, I should tell him to frak off, since he's obviously suffering from an inferiority complex? Not agreeing with a wrong assessment is now a sign of an inferiority complex?

You guys really need to think before you start jumping to conclusion. Is that some kind of a tradition in Ireland?

Yeah I don't get how it can be offensive. Unless you're looking to be offended which is where the inferiority complex come into it. We're talking about the economy of Poland, and relative to for example the EU15 it is poor. Like RRW said, Ireland was dirt poor 20 years ago and nobody would have argued that fact or took offense to it. It was simply a fact.

Your analogy about black and white people is stupid because we're talking about economics here which is based on facts and statistics. Believing whether or not certain races are smarter can only be personal opinion. Also what you outlined is a personal attack. I said nothing negative about Polish people, I said that Poland is a poor country. Which it is, relative to the region.

I see youve at least dropped the dictionary and gone for nitpicking. We're making progress. Here's a free "Jump to Conclusions mat" just for you:

Spoiler :

 

[Winner]

Yeah I don't get how it can be offensive. Unless you're looking to be offended which is where the inferiority complex come into it. We're talking about the economy of Poland, and relative to for example the EU15 it is poor. Like RRW said, Ireland was dirt poor 20 years ago and nobody would have argued that fact or took offense to it. It was simply a fact.

Oh I get it now - for you the correct usage of the term "poor" isn't important. I believe that worlds should be used correctly. That's why I protest against calling people racist when they're not, that's why I oppose political correctness.

Your analogy about black and white people is stupid because we're talking about economics here which is based on facts and statistics. Believing whether or not certain races are smarter can only be personal opinion. Also what you outlined is a personal attack. I said nothing negative about Polish people, I said that Poland is a poor country. Which it is, relative to the region.

And that's completely irrelevant. My analogy just shows you how stupid it is to talk about inferiority complexes when people disagree with the terms you used.

Poland is less rich, less developed, less wealthy than France or Ireland, but it is not poor. Period, I don't know why you're still resisting logic here. As in the infamous Central/Eastern Europe debate, this is about using a wrong term, nothing more, nothing less. Wrong terms can be taken as an offense - this is the answer to your question. Perhaps now it's not such a mystery to you.

 

[Shekwan]

Oh I get it now - for you the correct usage of the term "poor" isn't important. I believe that worlds should be used correctly. That's why I protest against calling people racist when they're not, that's why I oppose political correctness.

And that's completely irrelevant. My analogy just shows you how stupid it is to talk about inferiority complexes when people disagree with the terms you used.

Poland is less rich, less developed, less wealthy than France or Ireland, but it is not poor. Period, I don't know why you're still resisting logic here. As in the infamous Central/Eastern Europe debate, this is about using a wrong term, nothing more, nothing less. Wrong terms can be taken as an offense - this is the answer to your question. Perhaps now it's not such a mystery to you.

I'ver already explained why the term poor is used here. On the scale of wealhiest to poorest countries in Europe, Poland is nearer the poor end. Poor is simply used as an antonym for wealthy. So it isn't a wrong term. I could use a euphemism like "developing" but I feared that that too would upset you and your PC term alarm. Jeez, can't win either way.

At least know I know that the PC thing only applies to defending racists. Fair enough.

A normal person looks at the economic indicators and says yes Poland is poor compared to the EU 15. Somebody with an inferiority complex sees it as a slight against their people when the term poor is used.

 

[Winner]

In one word: no. I am not going to repeat myself again.

 

[RedRalph]

Shekwan, I dont know about you but I fly into a rage any time anyone points out that Ireland is poor compared to Monaco. It just sickined me how they could lie about our wonderful country

 

[Shekwan]

In one word: no. I am not going to repeat myself again.

You're right, it's pointless.

Shekwan, I dont know about you but I fly into a rage any time anyone points out that Ireland is poor compared to Monaco. It just sickined me how they could lie about our wonderful country

Don't get me started on those arrogant microstates! Damn tax haven bias thats all it is!

 

[Grisu]

Don't get me started on those arrogant microstates! Damn tax haven bias thats all it is!

what's your beef with Monaco? Why do you insult the Monegass by calling their nation a Microstate? Monaco is nearly two square km large, that's not 'micro' by any definition of the word

 

[Shekwan]

what's your beef with Monaco? Why do you insult the Monegass by calling their nation a Microstate? Monaco is nearly two square km large, that's not 'micro' by any definition of the word

 

[warpus]

again with the inferiority complex... why are you mentioning communism? Poland is dirt poor compared to most of western Europe,

Poland is poorer than most of Western Europe, but what you wrote above is just wrong.

 

[RedRalph]

Dirt poor was hyperbole, but thanks for at least getting the gist of my point.