Deny, Defend, Depose

[Estebonrober]

I thought this was an interesting read - an NBC News article via Yahoo:

Why top internet sleuths say they won't help find the UnitedHealthcare CEO killer

There is also some interesting general insight in there. Also, the 3 words on the shells per this topic's title may not be entirely correct but appear to refer to some book about insurance.

This is why the story is so compelling and horrifying... copycat behavior is likely, there is a zeitgeist for lack of a better word, and it is not comforting.

 

[Estebonrober]

But... Didnt both of those suceed at (or eventually lead to) changing a system suverely rigged against common people?

Yea and both did really well for their peoples in their times... The American education and subsequent propaganda machine try to refute it out of some misguided attempt at demonstrating capital's superiority and tut-tutting violence against the big capitalists (you know the ones who own all the media telling people what to think and feel). My point being that many Americans have no idea about historical reality, most hate history classes anyways and what follows on television, and such is even worse overall.

 

[Kyriakos]

I wonder if it is actually common for one to kill out of personal grievance (eg dead relative, financial ruin etc) but still try to make this be about a larger societal issue. Maybe typically a person in that situation wouldn't be thinking of that? (hence the words on the bullets being a bit suspicious; at least if we assume they were some anti-insurance company corruption slogan).
Besides, if you are financially ruined, where exactly are you running to after you murdered? Planning to start a new life as a hermit in the Rockies? ^^

 

[Voidwalkin]

Yea and both did really well for their peoples in their times... The American education and subsequent propaganda machine try to refute it out of some misguided attempt at demonstrating capital's superiority and tut-tutting violence against the big capitalists (you know the ones who own all the media telling people what to think and feel). My point being that many Americans have no idea about historical reality, most hate history classes anyways and what follows on television, and such is even worse overall.

Mild disagree. They know. Reading a lack of historical knowledge onto it is not totally correct. Excesses of the USSR, China, and the Khmer Rouge may not be known in great detail, but they are known in a very general way to have been bad and there is a rough consensus against them. Violence draws anti-social types, and in time the movement becomes anti-social, regardless of its pro-social intent.

 

[Estebonrober]

Mild disagree. They know. Reading a lack of historical knowledge onto it is not totally correct. Excesses of the USSR, China, and the Khmer Rouge may not be known in great detail, but they are known in a very general way to have been bad and there is a rough consensus against them. Violence draws anti-social types, and in time the movement becomes anti-social, regardless of its pro-social intent.

yea my concern is focused on the confused nature of the air of violence globally atm. This is not the place for the tit for tat argument of who was worse in history and yea we disagree I guess; I find your faith in their knowledge very suspect from my experience.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I don't need to know the ins and outs of their policies to believe that cold-bloodedly shooting someone in the street is morally reprehensible. Even if he's guilty of what you claim, there's this thing called "due process".

The "due process" where most of the victims can't afford lawyers or bribes to get the attention of the politicians and other suits who should be preventing all these claims from being unjustly denied?

What has been tried? Lawsuits? Journalistic exposes? Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent and degrades both the person doing it and the society which permits it.

Lawsuits benefit the lawyers more than anyone. And who could possibly last against what is undoubtedly a cutthroat team of lawyers that these corporations have?

What you're suggesting is no different from someone telling me to "write a stern letter to my MLA" about the issues affecting me. Well, guess what - my MLA (Member of the Legislative Assembly" helped create the problem! She blocks anyone who doesn't praise her for her sheer incompetency in not one, but TWO cabinet portfolios, and threw out 11 THOUSAND surveys that criticized her so-called "reformed" draft curriculum when she was the Minister of Education. She is NOT someone who has the remotest interest in listening to anyone who isn't a party member/campaign donor.

You're basically suggesting that people write stern letters that you must realize will go absolutely nowhere.

Personally, if my MLA got run over by a bus tomorrow, I would not grieve for half a nanosecond. People are dying in Red Deer because she and the other Red Deer MLA can't be bothered to get things going on the hospital expansion we need, not to mention the number of ERs around the province that are closed because there's nobody to staff them (piss off the doctors and nurses and they either change careers or leave the province). And she's not hated half as much as her boss, the premier, who thinks she's going to be buddies with Trump, if only he'd notice her when she scampers down to Washington next month for the inauguration.

I don't condone violence but I can't sit here and say I don't understand why this happened or why so many are choosing to see this guy as a hero.

There is class warfare going on between the rich and the poor in the U.S. and the poor have been getting it up the butt each and every time. So when the tables are turned.. and this happens to somebody so vile.. of course many are going to see the shooter as a hero.

That this is the only recourse the lower classes in the U.S. have is depressing.. but hey at least it is so easy for them to get access to guns. So at least they have something

The class warfare isn't only happening in the U.S.

Exactly. It doesn’t Even if the CEO has enacted boneheaded policies, it doesn’t give the excuse to resort to cold-blooded murder with hundreds, perhaps thousands of eyewitnesses in broad daylight.

All I know, is the criminal who killed the CEO tossed his life away in exchange for life in prison or the death penalty. In exchange for what? The short term gain is you’ve “eaten the rich”. Long term, I wouldn’t be suprised if CEOs, upper executives, get their own private security detail and bodyguards as a result of this.

That’s not going to happen. Provided the criminal doesn’t resist arrest that leads to a shoot out, he’s just going to get arrested and taken to court for trial. Again, there are laws against murder, even if the victim of said murder is a CEO.

If your idea of a “revolution” involves the celebration of violence with vigilante justice, count me out. If you want to make changes, you work within the system. Not acting like Bolsheviks in 1917 Russia or storming the Bastille

It's amazing how fast cops can fabricate an excuse to shoot someone fatally, then claim they "felt threatened" (when it's the cops who are wearing all the protective armor and have the tools to take someone down in a non-fatal way).

Apparently United Healthcare is simply part of United Health Group.

Here is the CEO of United Health Group talking to his employees about the CEO of United Healthcare who was assassinated.

Internal video leaks of UnitedHealthcare CEO advising employees against talking to press: 'Don't engage with the media'

A leaked internal video from the CEO of UnitedHealth Group shows him telling employees of the company there is no upside to talking with the media.

nypost.com

...


New York Magazine has been doing a lot of stories on the shooting lately.

The UnitedHealthcare Shooting Was Inevitable

Our political system is breaking down. Now it has killed.

nymag.com

Here's a quote from the article:

He also called Thompson “a truly extraordinary person who touched the lives of countless people throughout our organization and far beyond.”

Yep, he sure touched the lives of countless people. I wonder if his family has any clue that the money that supports them is blood money?

I wish it just "allowed" him, but US law actually enforces this type of behavior due to fiduciary standards in the US being so damned insane. In the US a CEO is required by law to maximize returns for his shareholders, and yes there have been many lawsuits forcing some of more socially conscious CEOs to perform terrible things against the environment and people. Again, the finance bros broke the whole point of even having a legal system by making corruption legal, regular, and expected. We do not have a government in the US as much as a bunch of subsidized arms of our various corporations.

Science fiction author F.M. Busby wrote about a near-future dystopia where something like this happened - democratic government was no longer affordable, so multinational corporations took over. The illusion of democracy came when citizens could vote for which conglomerate they wanted. Finally one of the corporations decided to just cancel all future elections and took over.

I had a chance to chat with Busby at a convention in the late '80s, and mentioned that I could see this actually happening. He downplayed it, saying, "It's only a story." Well, I wonder what he'd say now if he knew what happened in the years since he died?

 

[amadeus]

Everyone is an online Robespierre until they get called up from the basement as the hot pockets are done microwaving. Serenity now!

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Everyone is an online Robespierre until they get called up from the basement as the hot pockets are done microwaving. Serenity now!

Wut?

 

[amadeus]

Wut?

It's not you.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

It's not you.

I'm asking for clarification, because I have no idea what your post even means! For me, "Serenity" is a movie, based on a TV show. But I don't think you're talking about Firefly.

 

[Moriarte]

Translation: Everyone is a due process sceptic until they try the alternative.

 

[amadeus]

For me, "Serenity" is a movie, based on a TV show. But I don't think you're talking about Firefly.

 

[Snowygerry]

I wonder if it is actually common for one to kill out of personal grievance (eg dead relative, financial ruin etc) but still try to make this be about a larger societal issue. Maybe typically a person in that situation wouldn't be thinking of that? (hence the words on the bullets being a bit suspicious; at least if we assume they were some anti-insurance company corruption slogan).

Good point, it means he had to fire at least 3 bullets to make his point, one wonders if all bullets in the pistol were engraved and what words were on the others.

It is very important this guy is caught, if only to satisfy my curiosity

 

[Senethro]

Mild disagree. They know. Reading a lack of historical knowledge onto it is not totally correct. Excesses of the USSR, China, and the Khmer Rouge may not be known in great detail, but they are known in a very general way to have been bad and there is a rough consensus against them. Violence draws anti-social types, and in time the movement becomes anti-social, regardless of its pro-social intent.

Why aren't you happy class issues are cool again? (Mostly joking)

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Why aren't you happy class issues are cool again? (Mostly joking)

Only when it can be used to justify ignoring minorities

 

[Voidwalkin]

Why aren't you happy class issues are cool again? (Mostly joking)

It's there in the post: the use of violence draws anti-social types, and any movement that condones it becomes anti-social, quickly.

yea my concern is focused on the confused nature of the air of violence globally atm

*shrugs*

 

[Joij21]

"Raise your skinny fists like antennas to heaven!"

 

[Zardnaar]

Only when it can be used to justify ignoring minorities

We did warn you there's not enough progressives.

 

[Gorbles]

We did warn you there's not enough progressives.

Minorities keep existing even when there are no progressives in the room. Get a new boogeyman.

 

[Zardnaar]

Minorities keep existing even when there are no progressives in the room. Get a new boogeyman.

Aware but if you one true way your minority view......